The Islamic conquer of Europe

[ImprobableJoe]

Nope, I'm not required to do so. And I'm not required to do so in a place like this.

... so why did you post that? And what is a "place like this" mean? Seriously, that doesn't make a bit of sense.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Muslims in Europe have little to no power.

For now and that's only because they're a minority. Demographics however are changing, for example in the last decades there has been a huge increase in the Muslim population in UK, from less than 100.000 to 2.5 million (immigration and above replacement birthrates).

This while native population has declined. (Due to their own decision, let's be clear, I'm not blaming the Muslims for low birthrates.)

There's no grand conspiracy on the Muslim part, you're simply being naturally UNselected and you don't even realize it. (However some Muslims are happy this is happening, for example the late Gaddafi said this: "We have 50 million Muslims in Europe. There are signs that Allah will grant Islam victory in Europe,without swords, without guns, without conquest,will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades.")

The situation is similar in many other countries. You may say for example that Belgium Muslims are a small minority but do you realize how many are concentrated in Brussels? 25% of the population is Muslim.

They have no weapons to compare with the armies of the countries they live in. They don't have the manpower to take on even the smallest local police department

Who said anything about weapons? It's pandering to Islamic demands, (including in situations where no demands are even made ironically thanks to the dhimmi left) erosion of secularism (not that it's ever been 100% respected, but now the trend seems increasingly worse) and demographic change to back it up that I'm worried about.

Is that really the best you can do?

How about state-backed Sharia arbitration/tribunal (whatever, same bullshit, different term) in UK? You've been silent on it so what do you make of it? All you have to do is be gullible enough to allow it to arbitrate you and you can say goodbye to fair treatment if you're female. Inheritance? You only get 50% of that of a male. Domestic violence? Husband given lighter punishment than in a secular tribunal. But it's okay, it's "voluntary" lol...

Well, making a white supremacist car insurance that charges blacks 100% more is "voluntary" for blacks, companies paying blacks 50% less is "voluntary", but such a discriminatory business wouldn't be open for long in the free world.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

Nope, I'm not required to do so. And I'm not required to do so in a place like this.

... so why did you post that? And what is a "place like this" mean? Seriously, that doesn't make a bit of sense.

Just turning the tables a bit Joe.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Just turning the tables a bit Joe.

The fuck does that even mean? Are you trolling? Playing obscure Devil's Advocate?

 

[australopithecus]

Allow me to sum up every Dogma's Demise post thus far:

OMG THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING WITH THE TERRORISM!! Never mind that they're a minority, they BREED dont you know. FEAR THEM NOW!!!

I grew up in a predominantly Muslim/Pakistani area and had many Muslim friends, so excuse me if I refrain from cowering in fear from Islam.

 

[CosmicJoghurt]

Bullshit

You're kidding me. So what, 25% of Brussels is muslim? About 6% of the Belgian population is Muslim. But guess what? Muslims can fuck... so can everybody else.

 

[Prolescum]

terrorism is heavily correlated with Islam

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Soil by Group, From 1980 to 2005, According to FBI Database

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Allow me to sum up every Dogma's Demise post thus far:

OMG THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING WITH THE TERRORISM!! Never mind that they're a minority, they BREED dont you know. FEAR THEM NOW!!!

I grew up in a predominantly Muslim/Pakistani area and had many Muslim friends, so excuse me if I refrain from cowering in fear from Islam.

Again, you're misrepresenting what I said. I'm not so worried about terrorism as I am about attempts to slowly erode secularism.


Oh this is the "I know some perfectly good Muslims so Islam can't possibly be an issue". Well, that's probably what the radicals want, to exploit their peaceful followers to make it harder to criticize their actions and their ideology. It's the best human shield. Without the religious element (Allah said so), and without the fact that most Muslims just HAPPEN to be non-white (not relevant), what other excuses would they have left?

On a certain level Christians do it too. It's quite frustrating to say something negative about the Bible and then they'll just go "BUT I'M A GOOD GUY!" Well sure, you're a good guy, but your God is a mass murdering psychopath who flooded the Earth, and killed the first born (many who were obviously children) to force Egypt's hand.

And as I said, I don't have an issue with Muslims as long as they don't get political about their beliefs. I don't have an issue with mosques and madrassas unless they: a. preach radical ideas (not necessarily terrorist ideas, but if you think it's acceptable to teach 15 year old children that thieves should have their hands cut off - you should be shut down) b. get funding from dubious entities like Saudi Arabia or Muslim Brotherhood (which may suggest an ulterior motive) c. get state funding, a violation of secularism

 

[australopithecus]

Perhaps you should look into who exactly, in the UK, is trying to "errode secularism" before pointing the finger squarely at Islam. Our last podcast did exactly that, feel free to give it a listen.

 

[Prolescum]

Allow me to sum up every Dogma's Demise post thus far:

OMG THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING WITH THE TERRORISM!! Never mind that they're a minority, they BREED dont you know. FEAR THEM NOW!!!

I grew up in a predominantly Muslim/Pakistani area and had many Muslim friends, so excuse me if I refrain from cowering in fear from Islam.

Again, you're misrepresenting what I said. I'm not so worried about terrorism as I am about attempts to slowly erode secularism.

:lol:

for example in the last decades there has been a huge increase in the Muslim population in UK

terrorism is heavily correlated with Islam

--------------

I don't have an issue with Muslims as long as they don't get political about their beliefs.

You can say what you want as long as it's acceptable to me and within the guidelines I set forth. :lol:

Still stuck in the fantasy world where human rights are given only to those we like, eh? Forget article 9 (or 14) of the ECHR when it applies to Islam because although it isn't heavily correlated with terrorism at all, it's definitely heavily correlated with terrorism and although they only constitute a single digit of the UK population, they have more children than natives. It'll only take centuries for them to catch up, and a few more centuries to pull apart the 1,000 year old tangle of laws in the UK.

#glacialspeedsharia

we can't give freedom to people who want to use it against us

 

[ImprobableJoe]

First they came for a 90-minute block of swimming time, next they will have babies, and in just 50 more years they'll have a couple of items of Muslim food on the menu at McDonald's, and society will FALL!! :facepalm:

 

[Laurens]

It's pandering to Islamic demands, (including in situations where no demands are even made ironically thanks to the dhimmi left) erosion of secularism (not that it's ever been 100% respected, but now the trend seems increasingly worse) and demographic change to back it up that I'm worried about.

What about those bishops in the House of Lords? What about David Cameron's words: "We are a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so,"?

Which religion is doing the most erosion of secularism here? Perhaps you could list some names of Mullahs or Imams in the House of Lords?

 

[Dogma's Demise]

VyckRo Number 2, there's no contradiction in what I said, I didn't say I'm NOT concerned about terrorism, I said I'm not so worried about terrorism as I am about attempts to slowly erode secularism.

You can say what you want as long as it's acceptable to me and within the guidelines I set forth. :lol:

When has political freedom ever been absolute? There have to be some minimal guidelines, for the sake of national security and keeping the country free of totalitarian ideologies.

I'm all for dialog, but if your idea of dialog is "You will submit to Islam, Allah said so, end of story", well there's simply no reasoning with these people and they shouldn't be in politics. (For everyone's sake.) But yeah, relativism for the lose, the slightest attempt to defend freedom is actually anti-freedom. :lol:


An easy analogy to understand is that we put kidnappers in jail. I've never seen anyone argue that is hypocritical.

 

[Prolescum]

Recycling the wit of others does you no favours, Dogma's Demise.

When has political freedom ever been absolute? There have to be some minimal guidelines, for the sake of national security and keeping the country free of totalitarian ideologies.

The UK government proscribes those groups it deems a threat already, and they are far better equipped to understand the complexities involved than some random Romanian with a chip on his shoulder and a penchant for right-wing propaganda.

I'm all for dialog

No you're not. You accuse us of being "PC lefties" and the like whenever we've show why you are wrong, and you stay utterly resolute in your beliefs. Because you're just a plain ol' bigot.

You want to silence and remove Islam from Europe. Dialogue, my arse.

but if your idea of dialog is "You will submit to Islam, Allah said so, end of story"

No one here is arguing this, and there is little to no chance of the British converting either en masse or over time; Britain today is more secular than it's ever been.

well there's simply no reasoning with these people and they shouldn't be in politics.

Religious views are a protected freedom, and the same right protects your lack of religion. Everyone should be involved in democratic politics; that's the fucking point. When you leave out people based on a single attribute, when you marginalise the minorities, what do you get?

But yeah, relativism for the lose, the slightest attempt to defend freedom is actually anti-freedom.

You wouldn't know freedom if it kicked you in the bollocks, twatted you in the face with a kipper, and slipped a filthy tendril up your arse. Or relativism.

An easy analogy to understand is that we put kidnappers in jail. I've never seen anyone argue that is hypocritical.

This is so fucking stupid, it deserves nothing but contempt.

Here is my contempt:



































































































































































































































































.

 

[Frenger]

This must be one of the stupidest threads I have read on this forum.

So people who have a Muslim background are moving to Europe, wanting food according to their beliefs and to go swimming or some such horseshit, and all of a sudden it's just a matter of time until we have our hands chopped off and are forced to live by the laws of the Quran?

Are you reading the bollocks that you right Dogmas Demise? because you sound like a fucking lunatic.

 

[Prolescum]

This must be one of the stupidest threads I have read on this forum.

Word.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

This must be one of the stupidest threads I have read on this forum.

So people who have a Muslim background are moving to Europe, wanting food according to their beliefs and to go swimming or some such horseshit, and all of a sudden it's just a matter of time until we have our hands chopped off and are forced to live by the laws of the Quran?

Are you reading the bollocks that you right Dogmas Demise? because you sound like a fucking lunatic.

It's all magical slippery slopes, isn't it? First you sacrifice 90 minutes of pool access once a week to the Muslims, and next thing you know the Saudi royal family moves into Buckingham Palace.

 

[Laurens]

VyckRo Number 2, there's no contradiction in what I said, I didn't say I'm NOT concerned about terrorism, I said I'm not so worried about terrorism as I am about attempts to slowly erode secularism.

Then why place an over emphasis on Islam? Christianity erodes secularism more than Islam does in the West.

I'm all for dialog, but if your idea of dialog is "You will submit to Islam, Allah said so, end of story", well there's simply no reasoning with these people and they shouldn't be in politics. (For everyone's sake.) But yeah, relativism for the lose, the slightest attempt to defend freedom is actually anti-freedom. :lol:

Perhaps one of the most important things to bear in mind when you make an argument is to avoid generalizations. Do you have anything to show that indicates that every instance dialogue between Islam and the west results in them demanding our submission to Islam? To be honest this sounds like a paranoid fantasy of yours. What about those who actively work for integration? http://www.bmit.org.uk/

What of those Islamic organisations that campaign against terrorism and radicalism?

http://www.freemuslims.org/
http://www.m-a-t.org/
http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

Do you ignore the existence of these because they don't fit with your generalizations?

 

[Dogma's Demise]

You know, it's one thing to disagree with me, but I'm constantly baffled by how lightly you take a swimming pool discriminating against non-Muslims, 90 minutes, 1 minute, it doesn't matter. We're talking about a public SWIMMING POOL HERE, not a mosque. It's the equivalent of an insurance company on Tuesdays only giving out policies to whites and only whites.

Regardless if you think Islam poses a threat to secularism or not, or if you disagree with the extent it poses, you gotta admit there's something wrong here.


Oh man isn't it ironic that after all those accusations of "bigotry" and "racism" you have this... minor slip of the tongue:

some random Romanian

YOU RACIST AND XENOPHOBE! :lol: [/sarcasm]

I don't think I could get away with using a phrase like "some random Pakistani with a chip on his shoulder and a penchant for Islamist propaganda". But hey, double standards for the win.


This is getting a bit tiresome, I've rarely seen such an ardent defender of religious fascism (yeah let me remind you, you're defending an institution that preys on uninformed consent and religious pressure to discriminate against women) and I'm pretty sure that if I was writing messages, talking about how evil Helen Ukpabio and her Christian ministry is, you wouldn't raise an eyebrow.


About religious freedom. Their religious freedom ends where others' religious freedom begins. I don't want Muslims bringing their Sharia into politics in the same manner I don't want communist atheists to demolish churches they have no rights to.

Then why place an over emphasis on Islam? Christianity erodes secularism more than Islam does in the West.

Patience, its time will come to get bashed yet again. :lol: I simply stopped focusing on it because, I find Christianity overall benign compared to Islam. The nastiness that this religion breeds seems to surpass that of Christianity, just compare the human rights records of various countries.

In particular, I can list all the major problems (legal, moral etc.) I have with Orthodox Christianity in just a few lines, with Islam I could rant for hours.

1. Opposition to homosexuality. (They were against repealing an anti-homosexual soliciting law back in 2000, however they didn't make efforts to restore it.)
2. Opposition to homosexual marriage.
3. Opposition to prostitution. (However, it was communists who criminalized it, despite this, it's widely practiced and you have to be really reckless to get caught. You risk a LOT more in Muslim countries, not just for prostitution but for any fornication.)
4. Teaching of religion (including creationism) as fact in public schools.
5. State funding of churches.
6. I have strong suspicions that its influence got evolution pulled out of the 12th grade, there is no huge controversy over this in my country however. There's almost no abortion controversy either.
7. The hostile mentality towards atheists that it indirectly promotes.
8. The financial drain it causes on people, with scarce cemetery spots, expensive funerals because cremation is demonized, expensive AFTER-funerals etc. (Still, this is their issue, it's not like you can't opt for cremation. So from a legal point of view it's all good.)
9. Opposition to euthanasia for the terminally ill.
10. And of course the usual anecdotes: Involuntary manslaughter caused by a crazy priest trying to perform exorcism, but it's not so widespread.

 

[Gnug215]

I hate this thread.

First the error in the topic bothers me every time I see it.

Second, it seems people are unable to discuss this topic soberly and without tempers flaring.

Third, something something psychology.