Asrahn
New Member
Apologies for butting in, but I'd like to argue that the question of Islamisation is a dodgy one, mainly due to just how subjective it is. The percieved threat differs greatly from country to country, and while some see no problems what so ever, a person living in a segregated town that is part of a failed multicultural experiment may think differently. My inconcievable need to blurt out "SWE!?" in various internet-related social events speaks of my origin - Sweden. It can be hard to actually prove anything in terms of an actual Islamisation, with an agenda, or that there's some manner of movement behind the spread of Islam (which actually is spreading). While I offer no proof of an active process or "invasion", I can perhaps stirr up some further debate with some footage and articles of interest. Sadly, the majority of this will be in my native language, as my studies would not allow me to sit down and translate the entire thing in detail.
Starting off with the current situation in Malmà¶, Sweden. I know it's an excerpt from Fox News, whom I know tend to go out of their way to portray muslims in a bad way and so forth (not to mention that they 90% of the time are wholly incompetent) but they actually manage to catch the situation rather accurately.
Fox forgets to mention that Rosengà¥rd (the area where this is occuring mainly) is the one and only area in Sweden, and the first throughout our history, where firemen will not go in and put out a fire if it isn't directly life threatening - this simply for the fear of their own safety. As mentioned, ambulance requires police escort. Things have gotten quite worse in fact since this was reported some years ago. I've seen it with my own eyes, if my word counts as anything.
Second comes the forced bridging between cultures, or attempting to: The first of a line of Imams that have been employed by the Swedish Church.
http://www.dagen.se/dagen/article.aspx?id=250386
Due to the deviations in culture between swedes and those hailing from islamic countries, the goverment - the same people who retain the loose immigration policies - are desperately attempting to fix the gaps between the populations. The Swedish Church is as secularized as it can be, and bar for some nutters occasionally popping up (as they do with all religions, I'm looking at you Pastor Green. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ke_Green) you rarely hear anything from them, and they'll gladly seethe in the background and steal a small percentage of your yearly income while you don't even know you're part of them. Which reminds me, I have to bloody leave.
Thirdly, an interesting case that showed that the majority of muslims in Sweden would not want sharia law. I have sadly lost the original source, but here's a news excerpt addressing the debate that sprung from it:
http://www.expressen.se/debatt/vi-svenska-muslimer-vill-inte-ha-sharia-lag/
The concept being, summarized, that the Imams that come into the country are the problematic ones since they bring the values of Islam and promotes the laws of Sharia. Sweden's solution? Educate our own Imams with a more secularized view, here. Seeing how it was to be paid for by tax money however, the project was put on ice fairly quickly. IE: The problem persists.
In contrast to muslims not wanting sharia law, here are two examples where Swedish Court has actually utilized Sharia Law (or parts of it) to judge in cases where muslims have been involved:
https://lagen.nu/dom/rh/1993:116
Whether a man would be forced to pay support to his spouse after knocking her up and fleeing the country back to the islamic part of Israel. He was here convicted, on demand by his former spouse who stayed behind, to pay "mohar", or Morning Gift. Which sort of is the equalent of support pay, but less potent.
https://lagen.nu/dom/rh/2005:66
Second case, whether a man would have to pay "mahr", or "Brides Money" literally translated. He was convicted after his woman also demanded the swedish court apply the law of their home country (sharia), in which they had been wed.
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/pressroom/sverigedemokraterna/pressrelease/view/taenker-regeringen-stoppa-suadisk-finansiering-av-moskebyggen-i-sverige-575272
Another article, questioning whether our newly sprung up party, Sverigedemokraterna (or the Swedish Democrats) will stop the right for Saudi Arabia to support Mosque building in Sweden (a very common occurence, I know of two mosques that have been built this way, showing foreign support of spreading the faith - or dare I say, organisation?). Sverigedemokraterna is an immigration-negative (or arguably, xenophobic. They want to reduce immigration, which is enough to mark them as bad as Hitler over here) party and a result of a failed immigration policy and horribly failed integration - they were voted over the 4% limit in spite of almost 2 years of media and other parties digging in their background, blacklisting members, painting them as horrible racists and nazis on almost every frontpage - and creating polls that, while they weren't actually tampered with or modified, had a very selective population picked to answer the questions (mostly done in middle-class to upper middle-class areas, where critique against immigration tends to be very low, and more extremist left-wing ideals can roam free). Needless to say, the polls were really not benefitial for the party, or at least not its public standing. By the time for the election, the Swedish Democrats seemed to the public to have basically no chance in hell to reach above the mark. When they did, media and other parties were outraged, and Aftonbladet (arguably one of our largest news magazines) launched a campaign stating "We like Different!" that lasted for months after the election passed.
The Swedish Democrats are at this point at around 7% in the polls, still growing, and have through an extensive cooperation between the red and the blue block (Left and right wing respectively) been frozen out of the democratic process as the existing parties refuse to debate with them. Above is a meeting by the Swedish Democrats, where they were supposed to hold a "Torgmà¶te", or Square Meeting, IE: Speaking to the people, hold a speech or discussion in public. This had to happen under police protection, while the party was continuously booed at, whistled at, and had whistlepipes and other noice-makers disrupt their speeches. They have at several points had eggs, rocks and other things thrown at them, forcing them to abort whatever they were doing at that time.
Two instances of Sverigedemokrater that has been assaulted (physicaly abused) by left-wing extremist and/or people of non-western origin.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article11861117.ab
http://www.expressen.se/gt/sd-politiker-misshandlad/
It is not an odd occurence, as party members are under constant theat of death, torture or social consequences.
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sds-egen-lista-over-attackerna/
Leading many of these attacks are an open, left-wing extremist organisation known as AFA. Antifascistisk aktion.
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifascistisk_aktion
More close to home: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifascistisk_aktion_i_Sverige
Having been at one of Sverigedemokraterna's square meetings, I was close on being falsely accused of carrying nazi-sympathies as a man from AFA was walking around taking photos of the people gathered, before posting these on the Internet - more precisely on AFA homepages, asking whether anyone had any personal information on the people he had photoed. Thankfully, no one recognised me, as I have had little involvement in politics, and I was thously one of the few who only had my face parading on the homepages, without my home address, phone number, and family members.
My point with all this is that while Islam in itself may not be a massive threat to western society, the people already living here may actually be the bridge to a society where religions and cultures become nigh untouchable by criticism, because all criticism is silenced, forcefully - giving room and space for extremists and practitioners of faith that our western values would deem improper (so far), to the limit where we simply become strangers in our own lands.
Right, sounds extremely bleak and whatnot. And for anyone who thinks AFA, for an organisation that is against fascism, uses strangely fascist methods to deal with it: we are fully aware of the irony.
Starting off with the current situation in Malmà¶, Sweden. I know it's an excerpt from Fox News, whom I know tend to go out of their way to portray muslims in a bad way and so forth (not to mention that they 90% of the time are wholly incompetent) but they actually manage to catch the situation rather accurately.
Fox forgets to mention that Rosengà¥rd (the area where this is occuring mainly) is the one and only area in Sweden, and the first throughout our history, where firemen will not go in and put out a fire if it isn't directly life threatening - this simply for the fear of their own safety. As mentioned, ambulance requires police escort. Things have gotten quite worse in fact since this was reported some years ago. I've seen it with my own eyes, if my word counts as anything.
Second comes the forced bridging between cultures, or attempting to: The first of a line of Imams that have been employed by the Swedish Church.
http://www.dagen.se/dagen/article.aspx?id=250386
Due to the deviations in culture between swedes and those hailing from islamic countries, the goverment - the same people who retain the loose immigration policies - are desperately attempting to fix the gaps between the populations. The Swedish Church is as secularized as it can be, and bar for some nutters occasionally popping up (as they do with all religions, I'm looking at you Pastor Green. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85ke_Green) you rarely hear anything from them, and they'll gladly seethe in the background and steal a small percentage of your yearly income while you don't even know you're part of them. Which reminds me, I have to bloody leave.
Thirdly, an interesting case that showed that the majority of muslims in Sweden would not want sharia law. I have sadly lost the original source, but here's a news excerpt addressing the debate that sprung from it:
http://www.expressen.se/debatt/vi-svenska-muslimer-vill-inte-ha-sharia-lag/
The concept being, summarized, that the Imams that come into the country are the problematic ones since they bring the values of Islam and promotes the laws of Sharia. Sweden's solution? Educate our own Imams with a more secularized view, here. Seeing how it was to be paid for by tax money however, the project was put on ice fairly quickly. IE: The problem persists.
In contrast to muslims not wanting sharia law, here are two examples where Swedish Court has actually utilized Sharia Law (or parts of it) to judge in cases where muslims have been involved:
https://lagen.nu/dom/rh/1993:116
Whether a man would be forced to pay support to his spouse after knocking her up and fleeing the country back to the islamic part of Israel. He was here convicted, on demand by his former spouse who stayed behind, to pay "mohar", or Morning Gift. Which sort of is the equalent of support pay, but less potent.
https://lagen.nu/dom/rh/2005:66
Second case, whether a man would have to pay "mahr", or "Brides Money" literally translated. He was convicted after his woman also demanded the swedish court apply the law of their home country (sharia), in which they had been wed.
http://www.mynewsdesk.com/se/pressroom/sverigedemokraterna/pressrelease/view/taenker-regeringen-stoppa-suadisk-finansiering-av-moskebyggen-i-sverige-575272
Another article, questioning whether our newly sprung up party, Sverigedemokraterna (or the Swedish Democrats) will stop the right for Saudi Arabia to support Mosque building in Sweden (a very common occurence, I know of two mosques that have been built this way, showing foreign support of spreading the faith - or dare I say, organisation?). Sverigedemokraterna is an immigration-negative (or arguably, xenophobic. They want to reduce immigration, which is enough to mark them as bad as Hitler over here) party and a result of a failed immigration policy and horribly failed integration - they were voted over the 4% limit in spite of almost 2 years of media and other parties digging in their background, blacklisting members, painting them as horrible racists and nazis on almost every frontpage - and creating polls that, while they weren't actually tampered with or modified, had a very selective population picked to answer the questions (mostly done in middle-class to upper middle-class areas, where critique against immigration tends to be very low, and more extremist left-wing ideals can roam free). Needless to say, the polls were really not benefitial for the party, or at least not its public standing. By the time for the election, the Swedish Democrats seemed to the public to have basically no chance in hell to reach above the mark. When they did, media and other parties were outraged, and Aftonbladet (arguably one of our largest news magazines) launched a campaign stating "We like Different!" that lasted for months after the election passed.
The Swedish Democrats are at this point at around 7% in the polls, still growing, and have through an extensive cooperation between the red and the blue block (Left and right wing respectively) been frozen out of the democratic process as the existing parties refuse to debate with them. Above is a meeting by the Swedish Democrats, where they were supposed to hold a "Torgmà¶te", or Square Meeting, IE: Speaking to the people, hold a speech or discussion in public. This had to happen under police protection, while the party was continuously booed at, whistled at, and had whistlepipes and other noice-makers disrupt their speeches. They have at several points had eggs, rocks and other things thrown at them, forcing them to abort whatever they were doing at that time.
Two instances of Sverigedemokrater that has been assaulted (physicaly abused) by left-wing extremist and/or people of non-western origin.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article11861117.ab
http://www.expressen.se/gt/sd-politiker-misshandlad/
It is not an odd occurence, as party members are under constant theat of death, torture or social consequences.
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/sds-egen-lista-over-attackerna/
Leading many of these attacks are an open, left-wing extremist organisation known as AFA. Antifascistisk aktion.
http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifascistisk_aktion
More close to home: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifascistisk_aktion_i_Sverige
Having been at one of Sverigedemokraterna's square meetings, I was close on being falsely accused of carrying nazi-sympathies as a man from AFA was walking around taking photos of the people gathered, before posting these on the Internet - more precisely on AFA homepages, asking whether anyone had any personal information on the people he had photoed. Thankfully, no one recognised me, as I have had little involvement in politics, and I was thously one of the few who only had my face parading on the homepages, without my home address, phone number, and family members.
My point with all this is that while Islam in itself may not be a massive threat to western society, the people already living here may actually be the bridge to a society where religions and cultures become nigh untouchable by criticism, because all criticism is silenced, forcefully - giving room and space for extremists and practitioners of faith that our western values would deem improper (so far), to the limit where we simply become strangers in our own lands.
Right, sounds extremely bleak and whatnot. And for anyone who thinks AFA, for an organisation that is against fascism, uses strangely fascist methods to deal with it: we are fully aware of the irony.
