The Islamic conquer of Europe

[Hedley]

There is a wacky conspirancy theory that Muslims wants to conquer Europe
I will give the following elements that I think that this is a wacky conspiracy theory:

1-They are very similar to Mayflower,´s guys... they want to keep their religions and impose to all around them.
2-Internet is WERE RELIGIONS DIE... Internet will kill Islam within 3 to 5 generations, because it is filled with the same material of Christianity and other religions!

 

[lrkun]

There is a wacky conspirancy theory that Muslims wants to conquer Europe
I will give the following elements that I think that this is a wacky conspiracy theory:

1-They are very similar to Mayflower,´s guys... they want to keep their religions and impose to all around them.
2-Internet is WERE RELIGIONS DIE... Internet will kill Islam within 3 to 5 generations, because it is filled with the same material of Christianity and other religions!

What do you mean by number two? Can you be specific as to how the internet will kill islam?

 

[Inferno]

What do you mean by number two? Can you be specific as to how the internet will kill islam?

The Internet: Where religions come to die (Thunderf00t)



Cheers Irkun!

 

[lrkun]

What do you mean by number two? Can you be specific as to how the internet will kill islam?

 

[Laurens]

There is a wacky conspirancy theory that Muslims wants to conquer Europe
I will give the following elements that I think that this is a wacky conspiracy theory:

1-They are very similar to Mayflower,´s guys... they want to keep their religions and impose to all around them.
2-Internet is WERE RELIGIONS DIE... Internet will kill Islam within 3 to 5 generations, because it is filled with the same material of Christianity and other religions!

I don't think the internet will kill Islam or any other religion within 3 to 5 generations. It might increase the number of people coming out as atheist, but you will still have sites proclaiming the truth of Islam that attract a following, and you will also (unless some major change occurs) have countries that enforce the death penalty for apostasy and heavily censor the internet. Not to mention our various psychological tendencies towards superstitious beliefs.

I don't think you (not you personally) can ever kill religion entirely.

 

[Hedley]

There is a wacky conspirancy theory that Muslims wants to conquer Europe
I will give the following elements that I think that this is a wacky conspiracy theory:

1-They are very similar to Mayflower,´s guys... they want to keep their religions and impose to all around them.
2-Internet is WERE RELIGIONS DIE... Internet will kill Islam within 3 to 5 generations, because it is filled with the same material of Christianity and other religions!

I don't think the internet will kill Islam or any other religion within 3 to 5 generations. It might increase the number of people coming out as atheist, but you will still have sites proclaiming the truth of Islam that attract a following, and you will also (unless some major change occurs) have countries that enforce the death penalty for apostasy and heavily censor the internet. Not to mention our various psychological tendencies towards superstitious beliefs.

I don't think you (not you personally) can ever kill religion entirely.

I know what you mean, however whenever people learn science and it is put besides a somehow "clean" mind... theism make no sense!
See: A theist will defend his/her beliefs and some instances can kill for that! however, few generations later... there will be another story!

 

[Laurens]

I know what you mean, however whenever people learn science and it is put besides a somehow "clean" mind... theism make no sense!
See: A theist will defend his/her beliefs and some instances can kill for that! however, few generations later... there will be another story!

I agree that learning science can free one's mind from superstition and dogmatic thinking etc. That's certainly what helped me to abandon religion. However, not all people get a decent science education, and there are a lot of people who put a lot of effort into dismissing science and encouraging others to do so as well. When those science-deniers meet with people who haven't had a decent science education then you've got real trouble on your hands!

I don't see religion dying out, I think it will evolve as it always has done, and it will adapt to any changes. Religion progressed from rituals to ensure successful hunting, and harvest, to the more sophisticated forms of worship that we see today, and it is in the process of changing further, religion is slowly and begrudgingly starting to accept science rather than denying and persecuting it. I believe in the future religion will still exist in some way, but it will be in line with modern science, and it has already started down that path.

I don't think you will ever kill our innate desire to believe in something bigger than ourselves though.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

I would disagree with number 2. There are actually people who's faith is increased due to the internet due to believers sharing their anecdotal evidence or ministries making bad websites giving "evidence" for their religions.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

This is Worldquest again, isn't it...

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

Doubt it.

 

[aXron]

I don't think you will ever kill our innate desire to believe in something bigger than ourselves though.

The Universe is bigger than us, I don't see why people cannot be content with that. Why does this innate desire always have to be some magic, invisible guy in the sky?

Although I don't see Islam 'taking over' Europe, it is a very dangerous religion due to their beliefs/laws. They do seem to be gaining a lot of leverage in many countries, so it does seem like something to keep an eye on.

 

[Friday]

People will 'kill' religion in the same way they kill disease-causing microorganisms.

With bold steps taken to eradicate it.
With inoculation of the herd.
With vigilance to be on the watch for future outbreaks.

But of course religion (like the bugs) will never be totally eradicated.

New variants will evolve to take advantage of peoples weaknesses.
Natural disasters will leave people vulnerable to outbreaks.
Migration patterns will bring in fresh infected individuals to new population areas.
Some children will be without access to protections we enjoy.

Religion - its like one of those brain-infesting, zombie-making parasites that makes organisms do crazy shit!

 

[VyckRo]

This man is a fool! (from the video!) He is completely unrealistic.
Whit the appearance of a new challenge, religions do not die, but begin to adopt a more refined speech!

Atheism instead, generated: spiritual crisis & nihilistic crisis, which have weaken those human societies.
It should not surprise anyone that no atheist human society, did not resist the "struggle for life"! ever!

 

[VyckRo]

The rule mentioned in this video is completely stupid!

It is built upon the Protestant sects in America, that need to evangelize, and to evangelize quick if they want to survive!

The theory completely ignores "national religions" which are part of a nation's cultural identity as Judaism is for Jews.

 

[australopithecus]

Why am I not shocked that Vyck has yet again taken a thread and turned it into an opportunity for atheist bashing?

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Is it just me or does someone else thinks that this thread doesn't make any sense?

 

[Lightbringer666]

I would disagree with number 2. There are actually people who's faith is increased due to the internet due to believers sharing their anecdotal evidence or ministries making bad websites giving "evidence" for their religions.

EXACTLY!

 

[Laurens]

This man is a fool! (from the video!) He is completely unrealistic.
Whit the appearance of a new challenge, religions do not die, but begin to adopt a more refined speech!

Atheism instead, generated: spiritual crisis & nihilistic crisis, which have weaken those human societies.
It should not surprise anyone that no atheist human society, did not resist the "struggle for life"! ever!

What are you on about?

 

[The Felonius Pope]

I don't feel that Islam will 'take over' Europe in the sense that it will be some sort of military thing. When two cultures collide they rub off on each other, so I do foresee some places in Europe (France for example) becoming more culturally Islamic.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Regarding this Islamic take over, I do think it is very possible, but not in the exaggerated way we sometimes hear about. The idea that all or most Muslims are part of some collective conspiracy to "take over" by mass immigration and over-reproduction and the moderates are really closet extremists practicing "taqyiya" (i.e. permissible lying for Allah) is just patently absurd nonsense, usually coming from the likes of white nationalists who simply don't like any foreigners. I think most Muslims (regular every day Muslims) just want to live in peace, raise a family and have a good career than they could not in their home country - you know like regular people do.

Now that doesn't mean Eurabia cannot become a reality in 50-100 years (indirectly, thanks to a complacent Europe that panders to whiny fundies instead of deporting them). It can happen naturally without any kind of collective conspiracy, much in the same way animals evolve without any intelligent designer. It's simple really, Muslim have more children, the native European population does not even reproduce at replacement level. Fundie Muslims have even more children and this group (a minority but vocal and a significant number) does have a political agenda to make Europe more Islamic, see Sharia courts in UK, see blasphemy laws, see retards (like Andy Choudary) with over-inflated opinions of themselves, see the idiots who protest over cartoons and shout "Nuke Denmark!"

So if the trend continues, it's possible for the fundies to become a significant enough number to gain political power and pass theocratic or Islamic-friendly laws.

It's clear to me that the countries of the EU need to take some action:
- stop pandering to religious whining
- apply the law equally
- disband ALL Sharia courts, repeal ALL blasphemy laws
- take secularism more seriously and make it clear that religion has no place in politics
- deport ALL non-citizens who break the law or who express extremist anti-social views (in extreme cases, revoke citizenship or the right to vote)
- tighter immigration policy and harder to obtain citizenship

And this is also precisely why I promote atheism. To keep religion (any religion) away from politics, as much as possible. That's why we need events like the Reason Rally, to make a point that we will not be subjected to other people's unproven beliefs about impossible afterlifes.


And now for VyckRo:

This man is a fool! (from the video!) He is completely unrealistic.

Seems like you're the one who is completely unrealistic with this comment. :lol:

Whit the appearance of a new challenge, religions do not die, but begin to adopt a more refined speech!

"More refined speech" aka making up new excuses and rationalizations to defend the indefensible.

Unfortunately (for you) religion is on the decline in almost all free, democratic countries as people realize it is one of the biggest swindles ever. It's declining in USA, it's declining in the EU and that includes Romania as well. Your statistics from 2002 that show 0.1% are obsolete, plus a lot of people simply fill in "Orthodox" either for purely cultural reasons or because they are closet non-believers. So the number could be much higher.

Thanks to information being more easily available, uncensored, as well as new discoveries in science, it is becoming increasingly hard to believe the claims made by the religions of world.

Atheism instead, generated: spiritual crisis & nihilistic crisis, which have weaken those human societies.

And I bet this is the part where you will blather on about either:
1. Communism (which would have happened anyway due to class tensions)
2. The French Revolution (which again has more complex causes, not "atheists did it!" - I'm not even sure why you bring it up, would you rather they still be living under that outdated, oppressive monarchy?)

It should not surprise anyone that no atheist human society, did not resist the "struggle for life"! ever!

No dude, there has NEVER been an atheist majority society up until now. The communist countries do not count, they were simply ruled by a communist elite, but the majority of the population was still theist.

What is happening right now is unprecedented, people are mass leaving their faiths. Until we have a real atheist society (more specifically a secular humanist society) all you have to go on is bigoted speculation.

Well, actually we do: Sweden - 80% are non-religious and it's a very civilized and prosperous place to live - percentage-wise, it's Muslim immigrants who are causing a disproportionate amount of problems (rape and other illegal activities), surprise surprise...

The rule mentioned in this video is completely stupid!

It is built upon the Protestant sects in America

Bullshit! Here we go again with your obsession of protestant sects. The fact is virtually ALL religions rely on some form of coercion and I'm surprised you don't notice the elements of these evangelist sects:

Islam relies on capital punishment, imprisonment or social exclusion (depending on which community we're talking about) to propagate. Once a Muslim always a Muslim they say. It also relies on threats of a fate worse than death and promises of an impossible afterlife.

Scientology relies on lawsuits, social exclusion and even illegal activities (harassment, threats, slander etc).

Catholicism relies on the exact same things as the protestant churches of America - indoctrination from youth, threats of divine retribution if you turn away from God or the church and of course social exclusion. And its past is written in blood thanks to the insane ramblings in scripture about how heretics and witches are evil and must be put to death.

that need to evangelize, and to evangelize quick if they want to survive!

And to survive, Christianity had to be forced upon an entire population, as was the case in Russia where the Tzar simply decreed from now you're all Orthodox Christians... or else... Few people would have been genuinely convinced to leave their pagan gods without brute force.

The theory completely ignores "national religions" which are part of a nation's cultural identity as Judaism is for Jews.

LOLOLOL! :lol: Thanks VyckRo, you just made my argument for me.

Nationalist religions are also coercive in nature, they are imposed on you from birth (whether you like it or not) and if you leave it's considered unpatriotic, almost a form of treason for hardcore nationalists like yourself.

Now I do have to admit Orthodox religion is quite benign compared to others but you're deluded if you think people freely choose it.

Comeon, man, you claim to be from Bucharest, you should know this: Who is more religious? The people who live in the city and are more exposed to the outside world (i.e. ideas outside Romania) or the people from the countryside who are a much more tight, more conservative community?