Discussion thread for Bernhard.visscher vs. hackenslash

[red]

Like you do by claiming since I look like a hybrid of my parents therefore evolution. No not evolution, genetic variation. I am just as human as my parents, great grandparents, great great, etc.

Hackenslash was using that example to explain how the mechanisms of genetic variation worked. He later applied it to evolution to make his point. I get the feeling Bernie skimmed his post.

Bernie had to.
He was descended from Adam and Eve. But somehow most of their genetic information came from chimpanzees, which leaves Bernie rather clueless I suspect. Surely that cannot be right:

Genesis 1:26-27
# And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
# So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Either Bernie is a product of evolution, based on his DNA, or the Bible put a chimp in control of the Garden of Eden, and Bernie evolved thereafter.
Bad news for Bernie if he puts his faith on a Biblical explanation of his very being: evolution wins!

 

[DutchLiam84]

New question, if you put all your money in the first round you can't make another bet:
Will Bernard be able to have 2 correct could have/should have/would have's in a row? Thanks to Dragan Glas. Good odds with this one!
Yes 7
No 4 DL84(50)
Place your new bet, if you're able!

A bookmaker can only lose money on a 2 horse race if both odds generate a return greater than the outlay.
Has someone failed maths or do we imply a connection to the bookmaker?

Besides not being a charity, this is also a non-profit betting agency.

 

[DutchLiam84]

If this is Bernie's A game, we're in for a headache of a debate.

Mr "I'm a scientist" hasn't brought anything new yet and he won't. Mr "a hippo giving birth to a monkey is evidence for evolution" will only shift the goalpost even further once he's been driven in a corner for the gazillionth time. The fact that mr "transitional fossils needs to be directly ancestral" asks for opinion instead of fact is more than enough evidence that mr "telomeres don't fuse" has no idea how science works. Mr "I accept evolution but I don't accept evolution" is a joke.

What I'm saying is, this won't be a debate. Hackenslash is shooting fish in a barrel, he's stealing candy from a baby....or at least from someone with a babies intellect.

 

[keeper541]

]

New question, if you put all your money in the first round you can't make another bet:
Will Bernard be able to have 2 correct could have/should have/would have's in a row? Thanks to Dragan Glas. Good odds with this one!
Yes 7
No 4 DL84(50)
Place your new bet, if you're able!

I bet "No" at 40 units. This one seems too nuanced for him to pull off.

 

[keeper541]

If this is Bernie's A game, we're in for a headache of a debate.

Mr "I'm a scientist" hasn't brought anything new yet and he won't. Mr "a hippo giving birth to a monkey is evidence for evolution" will only shift the goalpost even further once he's been driven in a corner for the gazillionth time. The fact that mr "transitional fossils needs to be directly ancestral" asks for opinion instead of fact is more than enough evidence that mr "telomeres don't fuse" has no idea how science works. Mr "I accept evolution but I don't accept evolution" is a joke.

What I'm saying is, this won't be a debate. Hackenslash is shooting fish in a barrel, he's stealing candy from a baby....or at least from someone with a babies intellect.

Did anyone really expect him to honestly evaluate the evidence? He won't even engage in a serious discourse when he comes to someone directly. Demanding evidence when he doesn't have the slightest idea what actually constitutes evidence or the ToE. I'm giving hackenslash a lot of credit if he can engage this prime example of a black hole of ignorance and keep his cool.

I think you are being insulting to a baby comparing Bernard's intellect to one.

 

[red]

Besides not being a charity, this is also a non-profit betting agency.

You mean you are going for broke?
And I thought I was!

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

How do we know evolution is real

Hawai'i: the islands where evolution ran riot

Kindest regards,

James

 

[DutchLiam84]

Besides not being a charity, this is also a non-profit betting agency.

You mean you are going for broke?
And I thought I was!

Do you have any idea how much internet money I have?

 

[DutchLiam84]

Will Bernard finally learn how to use the "quote"-function PROPERLY?
Yes 3.9 DL84(20)
No 1.1 HWIN(25) keeper541(33) Inferno(25) itsdemtitans(50)

How long does it take before hackenslash becomes frustrated and insults Bernard?
1 post 1.01
2 posts 1.5 red(100)
3 posts 3
4 posts 5
More 10 DL84(50)
No insult 15 HWIN(50) Collecemall(100) keeper541(34) Inferno(50) itsdemtitans(25)

Will Bernard be able to have three "your" and/or "you're" 's correct in a row?
Yes 2.7 DL84(20) keeper541(33) WON
No 1.2 HWIN(25) Inferno(25)

Will Bernard be able to have 2 correct could have/should have/would have's in a row?
Yes 7
No 4 DL84(50) Dragan Glas(50) keep541(40)

 

[Mr_Wilford]

Will Bernard be able to have 2 correct could have/should have/would have's in a row?
Yes 7
No 4 DL84(50) Dragan Glas(50) keep541(40)

Throw my last 25 on yes

 

[DutchLiam84]

Will Bernard finally learn how to use the "quote"-function PROPERLY?
Yes 3.9 DL84(20)
No 1.1 HWIN(25) keeper541(33) Inferno(25) itsdemtitans(50)

How long does it take before hackenslash becomes frustrated and insults Bernard?
1 post 1.01
2 posts 1.5 red(100)
3 posts 3
4 posts 5
More 10 DL84(50)
No insult 15 HWIN(50) Collecemall(100) keeper541(34) Inferno(50) itsdemtitans(25)

Will Bernard be able to have three "your" and/or "you're" 's correct in a row?
Yes 2.7 DL84(20) keeper541(33) WON
No 1.2 HWIN(25) Inferno(25)

Will Bernard be able to have 2 correct could have/should have/would have's in a row?
Yes 7 itsdemtitans(25)
No 4 DL84(50) Dragan Glas(50) keep541(40)


DL84 HWIN keeper541 Inferno itsdemtitans red Collecemall Dragan Glas
units at start 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
Bet 1 -20 -25 -33 -25 -50 0 0 0
Won
Bet 2 -50 -50 -34 -50 -25 -100 -100 0
Won
Bet 3 -20 -25 -33 -25 0 0 0 0
Won 54 89
Bet 4 -50 0 -40 0 -25 0 0 -50
Won


total units left 14 0 49 0 0 0 0 50

Okay, so using tabs on this forum doesn't work.

 

[Rando]

Bernie is still talking about increasing complexity? Can I be a part of the betting? I'll go all in on "no new information!" Of course Bernie has also stated that he doesn't know how to measure it and that evolution can make it increase naturally, so in order to use it now, he'd have to be a shamelessly dishonest shit-weasel. So, I gotta go all in!


100 internet monies on "no new information."

Shamelessly dishonest shit-weasel for the win!

 

[Collecemall]

Will Bernard finally learn how to use the "quote"-function PROPERLY?
Yes 3.9 DL84(20)
No 1.1 HWIN(25) keeper541(33) Inferno(25) itsdemtitans(50)

How long does it take before hackenslash becomes frustrated and insults Bernard?
1 post 1.01
2 posts 1.5 red(100)
3 posts 3
4 posts 5
More 10 DL84(50)
No insult 15 HWIN(50) Collecemall(100) keeper541(34) Inferno(50) itsdemtitans(25)

Will Bernard be able to have three "your" and/or "you're" 's correct in a row?
Yes 2.7 DL84(20) keeper541(33) WON
No 1.2 HWIN(25) Inferno(25)

Will Bernard be able to have 2 correct could have/should have/would have's in a row?
Yes 7 itsdemtitans(25)
No 4 DL84(50) Dragan Glas(50) keep541(40)


DL84 HWIN keeper541 Inferno itsdemtitans red Collecemall Dragan Glas
units at start 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
Bet 1 -20 -25 -33 -25 -50 0 0 0
Won
Bet 2 -50 -50 -34 -50 -25 -100 -100 0
Won
Bet 3 -20 -25 -33 -25 0 0 0 0
Won 54 89
Bet 4 -50 0 -40 0 -25 0 0 -50
Won


total units left 14 0 49 0 0 0 0 50

Okay, so using tabs on this forum doesn't work.

Stab in the dark but the board might support html. I'm too lazy to look through the forum options to see. Also won't help if you don't know html. But doing a table is simple enough you can get it from google. Again, the board may or may not support using it.

 

[DutchLiam84]

[*]<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<body>

<table style="width:100%">
  <tr>
    <td>test</td>
    <td>test</td>		
    <td>test</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>test</td>
    <td>test</td>		
    <td>test</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>test</td>
    <td>test</td>		
    <td>test</td>
  </tr>
</table>

</body>
</html>

This isn't working either

 

[keeper541]

[*]<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<body>

<table style="width:100%">
  <tr>
    <td>test</td>
    <td>test</td>		
    <td>test</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>test</td>
    <td>test</td>		
    <td>test</td>
  </tr>
  <tr>
    <td>test</td>
    <td>test</td>		
    <td>test</td>
  </tr>
</table>

</body>
</html>

This isn't working either

http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11541 HWIN linked me this page once awhile back. It has a lot of the special coding for this page. There was an option for bullet pointed lists.

 

[keeper541]

Well can sort of tell hackenslash's frustration within his reply. The combination of typos and poor quoting (like what we are betting on for Bernard to learn). Hearing how those forums lock for editing after a period of time I think he should have taken his time for that reply. It was a good reply, but I see someone jumping on the typos and quoting function mistakes (especially when we are betting on Bernard doing it right for once).

 

[SpecialFrog]

Okay, Bernhard's latest reply is beyond ridiculous. The only purported evidence he actually links to is this article which according to him debunks the claim that Archaeopteryx is transitional.

While the title, "Archaeopteryx’s Evolutionary Humiliation Continues" certainly sounds appealing to creationists I don't think he read anything other than the title.

The "humiliation" for the Archaeopteryx is this:

It will be up to future paleontologists and ornithologists to figure out how flight shapes the brain, and how well other feathered dinosaurs could fly. But Archeopteryx will only be one among many species that they consider when they tackle those questions.

The poor Archaeopteryx used to be a beautiful and unique snowflake but now we have so many examples of the transition between non-avian and avian dinosaurs that it is no longer all that important (apart from for historical reasons).

Oh the humiliation.

The rest is more nonsense about pretending that transitionals don't count if they are not direct ancestors.

Also, "Lucy" is about 40% complete so whatever his uncited source is it is wrong (or he just doesn't know the difference between 40% of a skeleton and 40 bones).

 

[SpecialFrog]

And here is a transcript of the "Lucy tampering" video to which he must be referring.

OWEN LOVEJOY: When I put the two parts of the pelvis together that we had, this part of the pelvis has pressed so hard and so completely into this one, that it caused it to be broken into a series of individual pieces, which were then fused together in later fossilization.

DON JOHANSON: After Lucy died, some of her bones lying in the mud must have been crushed or broken, perhaps by animals browsing at the lake shore.

OWEN LOVEJOY: This has caused the two bones in fact to fit together so well that they're in an anatomically impossible position.

DON JOHANSON: The perfect fit was an allusion that made Lucy's hip bones seems to flair out like a chimps. But all was not lost. Lovejoy decided he could restore the pelvis to its natural shape. He didn't want to tamper with the original, so he made a copy in plaster. He cut the damaged pieces out and put them back together the way they were before Lucy died. It was a tricky job, but after taking the kink out of the pelvis, it all fit together perfectly, like a three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle. As a result, the angle of the hip looks nothing like a chimps, but a lot like ours. Anatomically at least, Lucy could stand like a human.

The original Lucy is untouched, allowing others to verify whether Lovejoy's separation and reassembly of the fossil pieces is valid.

 

[Mr_Wilford]

Can anyone address his claims about Tiktaalik? Or should I email Neil Shubin his claims and get his take?

 

[Dustnite]

I like how the articles Bernie does use defeats his own argument. Gotta love creationist reading comprehension!