This is going to give atheists nightmares

[abelcainsbrother]

Your old atheist talking points are going to changed because of scientific evidence of life after death.We've been telling you this for along time.Ya'll did a number on us with studies pointing out,no impact of prayer for patients.

Well here ya go. Read it and weep.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/life-after-death-largestever-study-provides-evidence-that-out-of-body-and-neardeath-experiences-may-actually-be-real-9780195.html

As a Christian I don't want you to go to hell.I want you to be in heaven with Jesus and he is the only way you can go but I can't and won't jump through hoops to get you to believe in Jesus,nobody had to prove he was real when I was first asked if I wanted to be saved by Jesus.I said yes and he saved me the moment I asked him to in prayer and I have never forgotten how it changed me.

I died for about 30 secs back in Feb 2014. No white light, no family members waiting for me and no heaven or hell. Just nothingness. It was quite peaceful.

There is a case of a brain dead person having a NDE's,brain dead. The authors of this study are atheists,not Christian,religious,etc.They went into this study on NDE's as atheists but are now convinced they are real,this is interesting stuff is all.It was not my intention to prove God exists as I do not do that but if there is life after death it flies in the face of materialism in science especially when brain-dead people are having them.Not everybody does have them,this is known and this is not about everybody experiencing them.It is just peer reviewed science for NDE's with funding for Aware 2. Not all of science is true even though it is taught as truth but a lot of times science gets it right.I agree with a lot of science and it does not contradict my understanding of the bible or science.They go hand in hand,it is good to know science is confirming the bible true while not trying to.
Christians have the ace in the hole but many don't realize it yet.

 

[SpecialFrog]

There is a case of a brain dead person having a NDE's,brain dead.

No there isn't. Not in AWARE or any other actual study. If you have evidence otherwise, provide it.

It is just peer reviewed science for NDE's with funding for Aware 2. Not all of science is true even though it is taught as truth

Why is peer-review at all relevant to you seeing as you reject a lot of other peer-reviewed findings.

 

[Shanara99]

Your old atheist talking points are going to changed because of scientific evidence of life after death.We've been telling you this for along time.Ya'll did a number on us with studies pointing out,no impact of prayer for patients.

Well here ya go. Read it and weep.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/life-after-death-largestever-study-provides-evidence-that-out-of-body-and-neardeath-experiences-may-actually-be-real-9780195.html

As a Christian I don't want you to go to hell.I want you to be in heaven with Jesus and he is the only way you can go but I can't and won't jump through hoops to get you to believe in Jesus,nobody had to prove he was real when I was first asked if I wanted to be saved by Jesus.I said yes and he saved me the moment I asked him to in prayer and I have never forgotten how it changed me.

What? That old discredited thing? Eh... I can't even citate... because that's the textbook example in most biology based careers on how our bias affect our perception and memories. The sad thing about your claim is that you're not even wrong. You don't reach the level of "wrong". It's as if I asked you "what's the boiling point of water at Mars", and you asked "potatoes are tasty".


Edit:

Furthermore. This is all witness testimony. How do we know they're not lying? How do we know they didn't have an allucination? How do we know their brains didn't interpret stimuli in a weird way? This isn't proof. This is just a witness testomony.

For the record, I had an accident at some point in the afternoon, December 14th 1988, and I actually was braindead for a couple minutes. As a result I have partial amnesia regarding events prior to the accident. But I do remember that there was no light, no darkness, nothing. There was "I'm being hitby a car" followed by "hey, I don't recognize this ceiling". Pity they never gave me an EVA... oh well. Seriously now: nothing in between.

This only proves that a group of religious people had their biases confirmed. Big deal.

 

[SpecialFrog]

For the record, I had an accident at some point in the afternoon, December 14th 1988, and I actually was braindead for a couple minutes.

I suspect you mean "clinically dead" rather than "brain dead". Brain death is "the complete and irreversible loss of brain function". I'm fairly certain that there are no documented cases of someone coming back from brain death (as established by modern criteria).

 

[Shanara99]

For the record, I had an accident at some point in the afternoon, December 14th 1988, and I actually was braindead for a couple minutes.

I suspect you mean "clinically dead" rather than "brain dead". Brain death is "the complete and irreversible loss of brain function". I'm fairly certain that there are no documented cases of someone coming back from brain death (as established by modern criteria).

And, regardless of evidence to the contrary, you're right. I meant clinically dead. Serves me right for posting when sleep deprived.

 

[tuxbox]

There is a case of a brain dead person having a NDE's,brain dead. The authors of this study are atheists,not Christian,religious,etc.They went into this study on NDE's as atheists but are now convinced they are real,this is interesting stuff is all.It was not my intention to prove God exists as I do not do that but if there is life after death it flies in the face of materialism in science especially when brain-dead people are having them.Not everybody does have them,this is known and this is not about everybody experiencing them.It is just peer reviewed science for NDE's with funding for Aware 2. Not all of science is true even though it is taught as truth but a lot of times science gets it right.I agree with a lot of science and it does not contradict my understanding of the bible or science.They go hand in hand,it is good to know science is confirming the bible true while not trying to.
Christians have the ace in the hole but many don't realize it yet.

I'm a Deist, so I believe in a Creator. However I am not certain it is an all powerful or all knowing deity. What I am certain of is it is not the God of the Bible.

That said, I watched a documentary on NDE's and found it pretty interesting. However, I am not sure that is evidence of an after-life. Hell, I am not even 100 percent sure there is a Creator of the universe. All though I believe there is evidence to suggest that there might be one.

 

[abelcainsbrother]

I'm tired of posting evidence and it is ignored and explained away. So I'll just say this these atheists now believe in NDE's and I think ya'll are already showing signs of intellectual dishonesty,so no need to post a link proving that there is a case of a brain-dead person having a NDE because I can already tell what is going to happen.

Ya'll only believe what you choose to regardless of evidence to the contrary,so why should I cast pearls before swine again? When it is going to be explained away and rejected?It is not too hard to find on YouTube if you're truly interested in it.I post evidence on my terms,not yours now.

 

[Shanara99]

I'm tired of posting evidence and it is ignored and explained away. So I'll just say this these atheists now believe in NDE's and I think ya'll are already showing signs of intellectual dishonesty,so no need to post a link proving that there is a case of a brain-dead person having a NDE because I can already tell what is going to happen.

Ya'll only believe what you choose to regardless of evidence to the contrary,so why should I cast pearls before swine again? When it is going to be explained away and rejected?It is not too hard to find on YouTube if you're truly interested in it.I post evidence on my terms,not yours now.

Projecting much?

Look...you can't objectively record a NDE, because they're subjective, by definition. You can record brain activity, you can record a testimony, but that isn't recording a NDE.

When talking about NDE is important to know how perception and memory work, also, how self-delusion works. You're trying to argue that just because some people "said" they experienced something, that constitutes proof that they experienced it. But that's not how it works. We do know how memory works, and "remembering" something doesn't mean that said something invariably happened. More often than not our preconceptions fill the gaps.

Not only that, but our brains filter entirely our experiences. Same way inuits can see up to 16 colors of snow, while snow is white for the rest of us, experience is filtered by what we know. So if these people actually believed or even had doubts about an afterlife, their entire perception wan be tinted by that pre-existing belief.

Sorry, but until you can provide OBJECTIVE evidence of NDE, I just won't believe it.

 

[Gnug215]

Abel, for the love of...

Could you please make an effort to read your own posts before you post them? They're a bloody mess most of the time!

I mean, I have to ask... is English your first language? Are you dyslexic? Are you otherwise impaired when it comes to writing and reading?

Your memory and logic are also out of whack, so it makes it really hard to actually have a conversation with you.

The first couple of quites will demonstrate this quite well:

I just posted a link about NDE's and you think I'm trying to God is real or that this points to a God?I made no assertion of that.

Well golly gee, I wonder what might have given me that impression!

Perhaps it was the title of your post? "This is going to give atheists nightmares"
Why would it do that if it didn't have anything to do with the existence of God?

And let me quote what you said at the end of your initial post:
"As a Christian I don't want you to go to hell.I want you to be in heaven with Jesus and he is the only way you can go but I can't and won't jump through hoops to get you to believe in Jesus,nobody had to prove he was real when I was first asked if I wanted to be saved by Jesus.I said yes and he saved me the moment I asked him to in prayer and I have never forgotten how it changed me."

You talk about Christianity and Jesus here. Was that just a totally random thought that occurred to you, or did it perhaps have something to do with the rest of the post, which you now seem to claim has nothing to do with God?

You post a link against this study that I read but you're only want to believe them and you can but this is peer reviewed science you are rejecting so the link you posted is just anti-NDE and you choose to believe it.

And here your faulty memory (or perception?) comes in. I have posted no link. Are you responding to someone else here?

That renders the rest of your quote moot.

I give evidence for my faith all the time on here you denying it doesn't change it,but I do.And you choose to believe lies thinking science has demonstrated life evolves but this thread is not about evolution.

No you don't. You've given no evidence whatsoever. You've just quoted the Bible and otherwise indulged us with your questionable "logic" and "reason".

I like how you talk about denial. This is what they in psychology call "projection". I'm pretty sure I'll have to explain that to you, so here goes: Projection means that you take your own flaws and apply them to other people. You "project", like a movie projector, your own mistakes onto others.
The only person here in denial is you, since you're the one who's going against everything the entire scientific establishment is saying. Do you think you're really smarter and more knowledgable than all those highly intelligent and educated people?
And just so you know, we're talking about combined efforts, a synergy of many minds, resulting in something greater than the sum of its parts. These are the people who on all scientific fields have led humanity forward, with science and technology that has benefitted us all, and yet somehow... they're wrong?

It's amazing how your psyche can explain that away.

This is peer reviewed science in favor of NDE's being real,you act like them getting the funding for Aware 2 is no big deal but then you ignore that the leaders of this study are atheists who do not believe in God and are not Christians or religious but they are convinced NDE's are real now.

Parts of this makes no sense, and I'm going to assume you're still posting to someone else here.

However, I will say this: What on earth kind of problem is it you think NDE's pose to atheism? And you bring up God again, belying your previous denial that this had nothing to with God.
But back to the NDE's. So they have shown that the brain perceives something after the body is clinically dead. As far as I know, this has been known for a long time. And it shows that, well, the brain is capable of perceiving things after the body is clinically dead. How on earth do you glean from that that there must be an afterlife? And what would said afterlife have to do with atheists? (Atheists don't believe in a God. I didn't know that they couldn't believe in some kind of life after death. I'm pretty sure some of them do.)

As with so many of your posts, the problem is that you're just entirely incapable of understanding the point people are trying to make to you. The point is NOT that I think the article is false, or a threat to my worldview, or something that I have to deny. The point is that the article does nothing whatsoever in terms of posing a problem to my or any atheist's worldview. And that is whether or not the results are true or not!

I'll put that in big fat green cursive bold so that you don't miss it.

You don't seem phased at all that based on this science it could be evidence of life after death which flies in the face of materialism. I mean you can deny it but this is science and it is interesting.

No, I'm not fazed in any way. Because the article doesn't do anything to prove any kind of life after death, unless you count around 3 minutes of brain after-body-clinical-death perception.
Seriously. This is an article showing that the brain seems to live on for a bit longer than the rest of the body, and what you got from it was: "Omg, this proves an afterlife and, although I for some reason want to deny it, it also proves God!"?

If that is all that it takes to convince you of something, no wonder you're religious.

It's ironic how so many creationists are swayed by such simple, poor and vague pieces of evidence, but when confronted with the hundreds of thousands of pieces of complex, intricate and well-founded evidence that just so happens to go against their beliefs, they put their heels in... or perhaps rather, take off their head and check it at the door.

Not one person on here ever provided evidence that demonstrates life evolves but it doesn't matter to you,you believe scientists and ignore what the evidence shows then expect me to accept all of the other evidence built on the assumption life evolves.

That is basically a lie. The fact is that evidence has been presented to you, but honestly, you're not intellectually capable of grasping it, and you're also not mentally prepared to leave your beliefs behind.

And yes, I believe the scientists. Not just because they're much smarter than I am, and more competent, more educated, more specialized, but because the evidence they present actually makes bloody sense, as opposed to the pathetic drivel creationists present.

As a matter of fact you will ignore the evidence that comes out about NDE's because it does not fit into your world view because atheists ignore evidence which is why they believe there is scientific evidence that demonstrates life evolves and yet you see atheists everywhere online preaching evolution is true and using science to try to prove the bible wrong,you're living under a rock if you don't see it for it is right here all over the place so your intellectually dishonesty does not fly.

Oh for the love of... It's called PUNCTUATION! GET ACQUAINTED WITH IT!

And no, it's not as a "matter of fact". You're wrong, just as you have been with everything else. I, and presumably many atheists, will follow the studies of NDE's with great interest, as we follow most of science with interest - we don't just pick and choose which areas of science we accept, and which to ignore.

The irony really hasn't hit you yet. Studies of NDE's will SUPPORT atheism and work UNDERMINE religion, because religious nutcases have long laid claim to NDE's as evidence for the divine. But, as science is starting to show, there's a natural explanation for it, and it's yet another piece of life's grand puzzle that couldn't be chalked down to "God did it!".

So if anything, this is going to give theists nightmares, as it is yet another area where they can't just claim that "oh, this is a mystery, and we don't really know much about it, so it must be God!"
Science has done this to religion all throughout history. From having fire, lightning and the stars attributed to divine, magical explanations, to now having perfecly natural explanations.
One by one, the pieces in the puzzle are revealed, and the God of the gaps will be all but gone from our explanation of the world.

We know exactly what atheists think and believe.

No you don't, because as you've shown so often, you're not intellectually capable of understanding many of the seemingly advanced concepts that have been discussed in here. Well, there's also the fact that whenever you've said that "atheists think this!" or "atheists beleive that!", you've been flat out wrong.

You're a textbook case of the Dunning-Kruger effect, and you have delusions of grandeur if you think you know anything about atheists.

 

[he_who_is_nobody]

Abel, for the love of...

Could you please make an effort to read your own posts before you post them? They're a bloody mess most of the time!

I mean, I have to ask... is English your first language? Are you dyslexic? Are you otherwise impaired when it comes to writing and reading?

Your memory and logic are also out of whack, so it makes it really hard to actually have a conversation with you.

The first couple of quites will demonstrate this quite well:

:lol:

Right out of the gate.

 

[Deleted member 619]

it is evidence of life after death.

Perhaps you could unpack the logic for us. How is this evidence of life after death? How many of the subjects in this study are actually dead?

 

[Collecemall]

Abel, for the love of...

Could you please make an effort to read your own posts before you post them? They're a bloody mess most of the time!

I mean, I have to ask... is English your first language? Are you dyslexic? Are you otherwise impaired when it comes to writing and reading?

Your memory and logic are also out of whack, so it makes it really hard to actually have a conversation with you.

The first couple of quites will demonstrate this quite well:

I've asked this same question multiple times and not gotten an answer. For his sake I hope there is a reason he is incomprehensible most of the time. Maybe he'll answer you.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Test pilots have reported the same (if not better) after death experiences complemented with heaven, Jesus and death relatives, while on a centrifuge, never for any moment missing a heart beat.
So, does this mean:
a. They actually visited heaven, and could exploit this centrifuges commercially as trips to heaven so you can visit your death relatives.
b. They were hallucinating.

Saint Peter must be mad, because people can use the spinning around very fast to glitch their way into heaven temporarily whilst not being death, without going trough the pearly gates, and without collecting 20 bucks for passing Go.
Damn Haxorz!
Apparently God doesn't seem to care that much in order to patch this.

 

[Dustnite]

In order to be consistent, I was going to ask MGK for sources so instead I went and looked for the study. Correct me if I'm wrong MGK:

Sources for MGK:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2357157


My personal opinion on life after death is this: What happens after I die is the same thing that happened before I was born.

 

[tuxbox]

My personal opinion on life after death is this: What happens after I die is the same thing that happened before I was born.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Gnug215]

Ok, so this thread seems to have wound down. Let's reflect.


In conclusion:


1: No nightmares for atheists.

2: NDE's are not magical, nor are they proof of God or an afterlife.

3: Abel is scientifically illiterate, logically inconsistent and - there's no way around it - full of crap.



Alright... nice work, people. Productive thread. Good job.

 

[ldmitruk]

Turns out a NDE should give anyone nightmares. A recent study's findings says that a NDE is a sign of the acceleration of your hearts demise. So science once again triumphs helping explain what is really going on in the real world.

 

[surreptitious57]

Your old atheist talking points are going to changed because of scientific evidence of life after death

If that is actually true then it is to be welcomed as it completely overthrows the view that there is no life after death
I am a tad sceptical however with regard to it since you reject any scientific evidence for evolution yet here you are
promoting it in another capacity. You do not get to choose which bits of evidence you like and which bits you do not
And so all evidence should be accepted what ever one may think of it as subjective interpretation is not relevant here

 

[Gnug215]

Your old atheist talking points are going to changed because of scientific evidence of life after death

If that is actually true then it is to be welcomed as it completely overthrows the view that there is no life after death
I am a tad sceptical however with regard to it since you reject any scientific evidence for evolution yet here you are
promoting it in another capacity. You do not get to choose which bits of evidence you like and which bits you do not
And so all evidence should be accepted what ever one may think of it as subjective interpretation is not relevant here

He DOES actually get to choose. That's the main perk of being an anti-scientific, religious fundie.

Now, it doesn't mean that we let him get away with it, but for him, the price is just the loss of any kind of integrity and respect he might have. He doesn't see that, of course, because even though the cognitive dissonance is strong, the belief-based denial in his mind is stronger.

But yeah, as long as he's being entirely selective with his science, we get to point out his dishonesty and hypocrisy, and with every turn, we get to crush his "arguments" to the ground, until he's only left with repeating his self-defense mantra of how we're the ones in denial and yadda yadda.

The cognitive dissonance will be his for the rest of his life, if he chooses to desperately cling to his faith. Science, in the meantime, will just continue to move on without him, and he'll be relegated to just whining on Internet forums, while being ridiculed by people intellectually out of his league. And that's going to give him nightmares, not us.

I'm quite happy with that, to be honest.

 

[tuxbox]

I for one am not scared of death and while I hope for an afterlife (that would be cool), I'm just as content with my atoms being released into the universe with my consciousness dying along with my body. Just thought I would add this to this dead thread.