Present a BETTER explanation for our existence than God

[Japhia888]

simple to answer. The odds are so astronomically small, that it makes simply no sense to believe, chance could be a reasonable driving factor.

But there are odds. While god has no explanation at all and not odds on its favor at all.

.001 > .0 :lol:

these odds are not favourable to a naturalistic explanation. This should be obvious to any normal thinking person. They indicate how improbable a natural origin is.

 

[lrkun]

simple to answer. The odds are so astronomically small, that it makes simply no sense to believe, chance could be a reasonable driving factor.

But there are odds. While god has no explanation at all and not odds on its favor at all.

.001 > .0 :lol:

these odds are not favourable to a naturalistic explanation. This should be obvious to any normal thinking person. They indicate how improbable a natural origin is.

But the odds are not favourable to a god's explanation. This must be obvious to all thinking persons. They indicate how impossible a god explanation is.

 

[Japhia888]

But the odds are not favourable to a god's explanation. This must be obvious to all thinking persons. They indicate how impossible a god explanation is.

actually , they are. These hudge odds make a intelligent designer being the cause of these constants etc. a much more reasonable explanation. God can set these values just by his intelligence. No playing dice needed.

 

[lrkun]

But the odds are not favourable to a god's explanation. This must be obvious to all thinking persons. They indicate how impossible a god explanation is.

actually , they are. These hudge odds make a intelligent designer being the cause of these constants etc. a much more reasonable explanation. God can set these values just by his intelligence. No playing dice needed.

So what's your proof that god exists?

 

[Story]

COPY PASTA STORM!

Are you saying that life developed because the conditions permitted it or are you saying that the conditions permitted it because so that life would develop.

Do you consider everything improbable to have to have a supernatural explanation?

The chances that your parents would choose each other to conceive you are 1 in several billion. Does this need an explanation? Did a supernatural entity cause them to meet instead of one of the several billion other people in the world? Chance doesn't make sense to me...

If I role a dice down a hill, the chances that all the things would be in their exact places to knock the dice in just the right places to make it land the 5 that it will land is completely incalculable, but they were. Does that mean a supernatural entity was working to make dices land on the numbers that they do? Chance doesn't make sense to me...

If I get infected with influenza, the chances that that specific influenza cell would infect me is 1 in nearly several trillion trillion trillion, but that cell did infect me, is there some supernatural cause involved that can't be explained naturally? Chance doesn't make sense to me...

How do probabilities solve the answer to any question?

 

[champjklccmk]

Hi... Um, I'm new here, so my opinion probably isn't going to carry a lot of weight... But I just don't understand why anyone would keep feeding this guy's BS... It's not the job of Atheists or Scientists to make him feel better about his life is it? We know that our view of the world is founded on evidence and though we still don't have a grasp of the universe, that does not mean we should keep on justifying ourselves to the deluded... More and more proof that supports our stand come everyday, while theists have never presented anything that could make their beliefs anywhere remotely close to anything other than fantasy... I'm sorry for ranting, but I just couldn't stand by and have this ranting idiot go about and talk as if his views of the world is truth or that he's proving anything at all...

I apologize to any of my Rational brothers if I sounded arrogant... It just bugs me that these religious nutters still get attention...

 

[lrkun]

Hi... Um, I'm new here, so my opinion probably isn't going to carry a lot of weight... But I just don't understand why anyone would keep feeding this guy's BS... It's not the job of Atheists or Scientists to make him feel better about his life is it? We know that our view of the world is founded on evidence and though we still don't have a grasp of the universe, that does not mean we should keep on justifying ourselves to the deluded... More and more proof that supports our stand come everyday, while theists have never presented anything that could make their beliefs anywhere remotely close to anything other than fantasy... I'm sorry for ranting, but I just couldn't stand by and have this ranting idiot go about and talk as if his views of the world is truth or that he's proving anything at all...

I apologize to any of my Rational brothers if I sounded arrogant... It just bugs me that these religious nutters still get attention...

Great point. However, consider this.

Sometimes, when a thinking person is bored, even if it isn't necessary, he will in a way talk about things that are unecessary.

"welcome to the forums.

 

[borrofburi]

COPY PASTA STORM!

Can you please explain, in your own words, how your argument is different from "ZOMG THE WORLD IS LIKE SO TOTALLY AWESOME AND I CAN'T THINK OR UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WITHOUT GOD THEREFORE GOD DID IT AND IS THEREFORE REAL"... Namely, precisely how is your argument not: (1) an argument from incredulity (2) a god-of-the gaps argument with some special pleading?

Moreover, do you understand that the following attempt at a logical argument is a fallacy (circular argument)?
1) God did it
2) therefore god exists

 

[Japhia888]

COPY PASTA STORM!

Are you saying that life developed because the conditions permitted it or are you saying that the conditions permitted it because so that life would develop.

Do you consider everything improbable to have to have a supernatural explanation?

The chances that your parents would choose each other to conceive you are 1 in several billion. Does this need an explanation? Did a supernatural entity cause them to meet instead of one of the several billion other people in the world? Chance doesn't make sense to me...

If I role a dice down a hill, the chances that all the things would be in their exact places to knock the dice in just the right places to make it land the 5 that it will land is completely incalculable, but they were. Does that mean a supernatural entity was working to make dices land on the numbers that they do? Chance doesn't make sense to me...

If I get infected with influenza, the chances that that specific influenza cell would infect me is 1 in nearly several trillion trillion trillion, but that cell did infect me, is there some supernatural cause involved that can't be explained naturally? Chance doesn't make sense to me...

How do probabilities solve the answer to any question?

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/astronomy-cosmology-and-god-f15/the-extreme-fine-tuning-of-the-universe-t31-45.htm

All states of affairs are highly improbable, therefore every individual state of affairs is a 'miracle'.

However, although all combinations on a combination lock are equally improbable to obtain randomly, a bank manager does not think that anyone could open the lock by chance. No-one would explain a Shakespearian sonnet by a chimp typing randomly, although any randomly typed letter sequence is equally improbable ('I love you dearly' surely requires more explanation than 'asnhouyganpi;kvk klkjfl').

 

[Japhia888]

Hi... Um, I'm new here, so my opinion probably isn't going to carry a lot of weight... But I just don't understand why anyone would keep feeding this guy's BS... It's not the job of Atheists or Scientists to make him feel better about his life is it? We know that our view of the world is founded on evidence and though we still don't have a grasp of the universe, that does not mean we should keep on justifying ourselves to the deluded... More and more proof that supports our stand come everyday, while theists have never presented anything that could make their beliefs anywhere remotely close to anything other than fantasy... I'm sorry for ranting, but I just couldn't stand by and have this ranting idiot go about and talk as if his views of the world is truth or that he's proving anything at all...

I apologize to any of my Rational brothers if I sounded arrogant... It just bugs me that these religious nutters still get attention...

So far, the participants of this forum have been gentlemen. I suggest you don't lower the level, and start cheap insult attacks. That way, you are not contributing anything valuable to the debate. Either you stop it, or the moderator stops it, or i will stop contributing here.

 

[Japhia888]

COPY PASTA STORM!

Can you please explain, in your own words, how your argument is different from "ZOMG THE WORLD IS LIKE SO TOTALLY AWESOME AND I CAN'T THINK OR UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WITHOUT GOD THEREFORE GOD DID IT AND IS THEREFORE REAL"... Namely, precisely how is your argument not: (1) an argument from incredulity (2) a god-of-the gaps argument with some special pleading?

Moreover, do you understand that the following attempt at a logical argument is a fallacy (circular argument)?
1) God did it
2) therefore god exists

the kalaam cosmological argument is not a god of the gaps argument
the fine tune argument isnt either
the abiogenesis argument isnt it either
the DNA argument isnt it either
the moral argument isnt it either.

my arguments are based on what we KNOW, not on what we do not know yet.

 

[Japhia888]

So what's your proof that god exists?

I have no proofs. But i have the bible, which says :

romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people 39 who suppress the truth by their 40 unrighteousness, 41 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them, 42 because God has made it plain to them. 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people 43 are without excuse. 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts 44 were darkened. 1:22 Although they claimed 45 to be wise, they became fools

 

[lrkun]

So what's your proof that god exists?

I have no proofs. But i have the bible, which says :

romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people 39 who suppress the truth by their 40 unrighteousness, 41 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them, 42 because God has made it plain to them. 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people 43 are without excuse. 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts 44 were darkened. 1:22 Although they claimed 45 to be wise, they became fools

Your proof for god is the bible.

So you mean to say if I have a religion and I don't have proof all I need is a book which says my god is true?

Hypothetically speaking, my god is music. To worship this god, all that a person needs to do is appreciate music. Since there is no proof to support that musica exists, I must first write a book about her. And this book will says:

note 1:18 for the wrath of musica is revealed from the songs against all who hates music and righteousness ... ... etc although they claim to be wise, they became fools.

What is your proof that the bible contains the truth? Didn't you think about it? Didn't you question it? Didn't it provide the answer when you were seeking for some?

 

[DepricatedZero]

http://elshamah.heavenforum.com/astronomy-cosmology-and-god-f15/the-extreme-fine-tuning-of-the-universe-t31-45.htm

All states of affairs are highly improbable, therefore every individual state of affairs is a 'miracle'.

However, although all combinations on a combination lock are equally improbable to obtain randomly, a bank manager does not think that anyone could open the lock by chance. No-one would explain a Shakespearian sonnet by a chimp typing randomly, although any randomly typed letter sequence is equally improbable ('I love you dearly' surely requires more explanation than 'asnhouyganpi;kvk klkjfl').

You're right. I'm saved. Thank sweet zombie jesus! I'll never again worry about environmental factors, emergent properties, or basic math.

 

[borrofburi]

Hi... Um, I'm new here, so my opinion probably isn't going to carry a lot of weight... But I just don't understand why anyone would keep feeding this guy's BS... It's not the job of Atheists or Scientists to make him feel better about his life is it? We know that our view of the world is founded on evidence and though we still don't have a grasp of the universe, that does not mean we should keep on justifying ourselves to the deluded... More and more proof that supports our stand come everyday, while theists have never presented anything that could make their beliefs anywhere remotely close to anything other than fantasy... I'm sorry for ranting, but I just couldn't stand by and have this ranting idiot go about and talk as if his views of the world is truth or that he's proving anything at all...

I apologize to any of my Rational brothers if I sounded arrogant... It just bugs me that these religious nutters still get attention...

So far, the participants of this forum have been gentlemen. I suggest you don't lower the level, and start cheap insult attacks. That way, you are not contributing anything valuable to the debate. Either you stop it, or the moderator stops it, or i will stop contributing here.

Hahahaha... It's just... funny.

He wasn't talking to you (and he certainly wasn't debating). Nor was there any personal attack in his post. You on the other hand have been warned about behavior like moving the goal posts and not making it clear that you're citing william lane craig as though he had any scientific merit (and not making the citation clear).

 

[borrofburi]

Can you please explain, in your own words, how your argument is different from "ZOMG THE WORLD IS LIKE SO TOTALLY AWESOME AND I CAN'T THINK OR UNDERSTAND HOW THIS COULD HAVE BEEN DONE WITHOUT GOD THEREFORE GOD DID IT AND IS THEREFORE REAL"... Namely, precisely how is your argument not: (1) an argument from incredulity (2) a god-of-the gaps argument with some special pleading?

Moreover, do you understand that the following attempt at a logical argument is a fallacy (circular argument)?
1) God did it
2) therefore god exists

the kalaam cosmological argument is not a god of the gaps argument
the fine tune argument isnt either
the abiogenesis argument isnt it either
the DNA argument isnt it either
the moral argument isnt it either.

my arguments are based on what we KNOW, not on what we do not know yet.

Err all those arguments are god of the gaps arguments:
-kalaam: we don't know the precise details of the beginning of the universe therefore god did it
-fine tuning: our models have problems, therefore god created the unvierse
-abiogenesis: we don't know the precise details of rna-dna formation therefore god did it
-DNA: I am incredulous at the idea that DNA is just a molecule operating by chemical rules and it seems extra special, therefore god did it (technically this is also an arugment from incredulity (perhaps even primarily an argument from incredulity) as well as an arugment from ignorance (namely that you have no understanding of information theory))
-moral arugment: I can't understand how social morality could evolve, therefore god did it (this one is also primarily an argument from incredulity)


Do you understand that the following attempt at a logical argument is a fallacy (circular argument)?
1) God did it
2) therefore god exist


Thank you for not splitting up my post.

 

[borrofburi]

So what's your proof that god exists?

I have no proofs. But i have the bible, which says :

romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people 39 who suppress the truth by their 40 unrighteousness, 41 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them, 42 because God has made it plain to them. 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people 43 are without excuse. 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts 44 were darkened. 1:22 Although they claimed 45 to be wise, they became fools

This is circular: the bible is true because god said so and god exists because the bible says so...
god therefore bible therefore god therefore bible...

 

[Japhia888]

Do you understand that the following attempt at a logical argument is a fallacy (circular argument)?
1) God did it
2) therefore god exist


Thank you for not splitting up my post.

your answer is THAT MUCH wrong in all accounts, i am not even motivated to answer it properly. it makes no sense.

 

[godisabullet]

Ok, I swear. Last post!

Do you understand that the following attempt at a logical argument is a fallacy (circular argument)?
1) God did it
2) therefore god exist


Thank you for not splitting up my post.

your answer is THAT MUCH wrong in all accounts, i am not even motivated to answer it properly. it makes no sense.

And there we have it folks.

If any newcomer wanted a summary of this entire thread in one quick sentence there it is.

1. You don't (want to) understand the concepts people present.
2. You don't (want to) understand the things you copy/paste from creationist websites.
3. You don't (want to) understand logic.
4. You don't even (want to) understand when someone asks you a question. You think it's an answer!

:lol:

You don't feel motivated to answer it properly? You never seem motivated to answer anything properly.

Now watch people, as the pigeon knocks all the pieces from the board and flies away thinking that it's won.

 

[Squawk]

Do you understand that the following attempt at a logical argument is a fallacy (circular argument)?
1) God did it
2) therefore god exist


Thank you for not splitting up my post.

your answer is THAT MUCH wrong in all accounts, i am not even motivated to answer it properly. it makes no sense.

Hilight a single problem with it

You must assume the premise in order for it to be true.

The logical construct you are attempting to employ should be

If God exists, then god is the most likely explanation for existence.

But, and here is the fun part about logic, you can't use the fact that existence, err, exists, in order to prove the premise, that god exists.

Logic's fun, init