Present a BETTER explanation for our existence than God

[Squawk]

Tell me, what do you know of information theory?

You know the difference between information storage and transmission? Can you name me two types of information? Tell you what, explain to me the difference between Shannon information and Kolmogorov information. Then tell me which applies to DNA and which applies to my beach, and in what context. Quick hint, both apply in the correct context, to both.

If you can do that without a link to a website or without a quote then I might, just might, bother to go and look at the specious drivel that you keep linking to in order to destroy it one line at a time.

However, I know you can't do it, I know that as you read this you realise that you don't know what Shannon information is, what Kolmogorov information is, and that you are heading to wikipedia where you won't understand the explanation

You will eventually realise that you are severely outmatched here. When that happens you might have a chance to learn something.

 

[Squawk]

I've had a brainwave. Lets presume that I'm too supid to understand your link. Why don't you explain it to me in your own words, without quoting it other than to explain the quote in a subsequent paragraph

Oh, and what metric are you using to assess design?

##edit
I just read that link. LMAO. They aren't using a metric to assess design, they are presuming it. And that guy knows fuck all about information theory too

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Is a beach a code? It contains information in the position of the grains of sand, and the chance that each grain of sand ended up in exactly the same place it did far exceeds the "chance" that DNA formed.

Oh dear ;-)

read this, and you will understand:

Patterns vs. Designs

http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/ifyoucanreadthis1.htm

I love how he thinks his sources are authoritative.

Find me this same thing, only not from a religious website. Go on.

 

[lrkun]

Issue

Present a BETTER explanation for our existence than God.

Answer

God is not an explanation.

The challenge is an exercise in futility.

 

[Story]

We could easily make up other explanations that didn't involve god either, like:

There are small undetectable particles called yoldervits, these slow the passage of time after a while, eventually they will cause time to reverse back to the big bang and everything will happen all over again.

or

Kermeshtobs are tiny quantum energy fluctuations that create universes, eventually our universe will expand into a big rip upon which even protons will be broken down into timelessness. At this point quantum energy fluctuations will generate enough energy to form entire universes with any possibility because of string theory, since Kermeshtobs exist out side of time, this allows their effects to be causeless and allows an infinite regress.

or

There is a supernatural timeless entity that isn't conscious that develops complicated energy sets and explodes them into existence every 100 billion years.

 

[Laurens]

This could go on for years...

 

[nemesiss]

This could go on for years...

most likely... but, i think we are getting an even better understanding of evolution, abiogenesis, physics, debating then we had before.
and that for the price of one overly religeous person, who has no answer, but thinks he has.
its almost POEtic

 

[Paulhoff]

What does a so-called god explain, seeing that it can be anything you want it to be, it explains nothing, and is therefore a waste of time in any meaningful conversations.

Paul

 

[Anachronous Rex]

What does a so-called god explain, seeing that it can be anything you want it to be, it explains nothing, and is therefore a waste of time in any meaningful conversations.

Paul

Not to be cruel, but for future reference first-posts on forums should not contain excessive bolding, large font size, or smiles; at least in my experience.

 

[Deleted member 619]

Tell me, what do you know of information theory?

You know the difference between information storage and transmission? Can you name me two types of information? Tell you what, explain to me the difference between Shannon information and Kolmogorov information. Then tell me which applies to DNA and which applies to my beach, and in what context. Quick hint, both apply in the correct context, to both.

If you can do that without a link to a website or without a quote then I might, just might, bother to go and look at the specious drivel that you keep linking to in order to destroy it one line at a time.

However, I know you can't do it, I know that as you read this you realise that you don't know what Shannon information is, what Kolmogorov information is, and that you are heading to wikipedia where you won't understand the explanation

You will eventually realise that you are severely outmatched here. When that happens you might have a chance to learn something.

This.

[/thread]

 

[Paulhoff]

What does a so-called god explain, seeing that it can be anything you want it to be, it explains nothing, and is therefore a waste of time in any meaningful conversations.

Paul

Not to be cruel, but for future reference first-posts on forums should not contain excessive bolding, large font size, or smiles; at least in my experience.

Not to be cruel.............

I use smiles all the time on all forums, that is me.

Again, what does a so-called god explain.

Paul

 

[lrkun]

Not to be cruel.............

I use smiles all the time on all forums, that is me.

Again, what does a so-called god explain.

Paul

According to the thread starter, God wanted us, therefore he made us.

 

[Squawk]

hackenslash, you make me chuckle Keep it up

 

[Paulhoff]

According to the thread starter, God wanted us, therefore he made us.

So, it needed someone to bow to it, to kiss up to it. So It made 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars and many more times that amount in worlds, all that in just the visible universe so one planet could have beings that it could control and rule over?

That makes no sense at all.

I still like to know what a so-called god brings to the table in knowing anything about the universe.

Paul

 

[Story]

According to the thread starter, God wanted us, therefore he made us.

So, it needed someone to bow to it, to kiss up to it. So It made 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars and many more times that amount in worlds, all that in just the visible universe so one planet could have beings that it could control and rule over?

That makes no sense at all.

I still like to know what a so-called god brings to the table in knowing anything about the universe.

Paul

No it makes complete sense, modern science shows us that if he didn't make the universe so large then it wouldn't have been homologous enough to support life and all the 120 other fine tuned constants would have had to be different, which would fail to support life.

 

[lrkun]

According to the thread starter, God wanted us, therefore he made us.

So, it needed someone to bow to it, to kiss up to it. So It made 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars and many more times that amount in worlds, all that in just the visible universe so one planet could have beings that it could control and rule over?

That makes no sense at all.

I still like to know what a so-called god brings to the table in knowing anything about the universe.

Paul

Magic.

 

[Blood Wraith]

No it makes complete sense, modern science shows us that if he didn't make the universe so large then it wouldn't have been homologous enough to support life and all the 120 other fine tuned constants would have had to be different, which would fail to support life.

Exactly.

He absolutely had to constrain himself so that his creation would be within the limits of nature, which he also created.

Why? Because wurbly burbly derpy derp.

 

[Paulhoff]

No it makes complete sense, modern science shows us that if he didn't make the universe so large then it wouldn't have been homologous enough to support life and all the 120 other fine tuned constants would have had to be different, which would fail to support life.

No, it makes no sense at all, a so-called god doesn't have to play games to what it would want the universe to be and still work. There would be no need at all that have anything but an earth for starters, Daytime could just be light and night time just dark, no need for all the rest. like a real sun, or moon, or planets and stars. It is a so-called god, earth is the center of it all, and no games needed.

Paul

 

[Beldin]

i don't understand the "fine tuning for life" argument

99.9% of the universe it's totally HOSTILE to life. if there is a tuner, he is not "fine", he's drunk

 

[borrofburi]

No it makes complete sense, modern science shows us that if he didn't make the universe so large then it wouldn't have been homologous enough to support life and all the 120 other fine tuned constants would have had to be different, which would fail to support life.

No, it makes no sense at all, a so-called god doesn't have to play games to what it would want the universe to be and still work. There would be no need at all that have anything but an earth for starters, Daytime could just be light and night time just dark, no need for all the rest. like a real sun, or moon, or planets and stars. It is a so-called god, earth is the center of it all, and no games needed.

Story was being sarcastic.

But with a point: the argument relies on god being constrained by the physical models we've discovered (the view is that these physical models are "laws" that matter MUST follow), and that as a result god has to create the universe this way. But you can't use this argument to argue for an omnipotent god, because an omnipotent god can just change the way physics works (because an omnipotent god is constrained by nothing (except maybe himself and logic, but that's an argument for another day) and as such is not constrained by physical laws; a god constrained by physical laws is by definition not omnipotent).

'Course, no one likes you when you explain the joke... :?