Present a BETTER explanation for our existence than God

[Gnug215]

Mod Note:

This thread now seems to consist only of people asking Japhia to answer their questions, and Japhia responding with copy/pasta.

Squawk has already noted that it may have run its course, and I totally agree.

So unless the next few posts ask us to "keep this thread going", we'll lock it soon.

 

[borrofburi]

This thread now seems to consist only of people asking Japhia to answer their questions, and Japhia responding with copy/pasta.

Honestly I think Japhia is trying to answer them via his copy pasta, but somehow doesn't understand that (1) people in general dislike too much copy and paste, we want to know what you think, in your own words (too much copy and pasting makes you look like you believe whatever the authorities tell you, and exactly that, with no understanding) and (2) it isn't actually answering any of our (rather specific) questions.

I still do wonder if he's a bot trying to pass a turing test by using the incredible power of poe's law. If he's not, I might try to do exactly that...

 

[Andiferous]

I think it is rather awesome to have disagreeing viewpoints and I think everyone else must secretly do so too, cuz it seems a lot of people enjoyed this thread. And poor Japhia for being the sacrificial lamb, but kudos for inspiring such fervor. In the end really people just argued themselves without Japhia even around, which in a way is quite impressive. It was an inspiring topic. Energizer bunny like. I wish I could do that.

We ought to post thread page records really.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

This thread now seems to consist only of people asking Japhia to answer their questions, and Japhia responding with copy/pasta.

Honestly I think Japhia is trying to answer them via his copy pasta, but somehow doesn't understand that (1) people in general dislike too much copy and paste, we want to know what you think, in your own words (too much copy and pasting makes you look like you believe whatever the authorities tell you, and exactly that, with no understanding) and (2) it isn't actually answering any of our (rather specific) questions.

I still do wonder if he's a bot trying to pass a turing test by using the incredible power of poe's law. If he's not, I might try to do exactly that...

I agree with this completely. It certainly seems like he's trying to do get a point across, he just doesn't realize that the move he keeps making is a disqualifying one if used on its own.

 

[Japhia888]

I agree with this completely. It certainly seems like he's trying to do get a point across, he just doesn't realize that the move he keeps making is a disqualifying one if used on its own.

i am at Itacaré, a little cute town with wonderful beaches, where i have a bungalow , and doing maintainance :

http://s521.photobucket.com/albums/w333/ElShamah/?action=view&current=Imagem006.jpg&newest=1

that does not aloud to try to answer the questions here indepth, though they are valid.

Yesterday i visited a friend of mine, which remained paralitic with a car accident. Very humble and poor people. his wife cannot read and write. she is analphabet. some small talk, and i asked here : did you make a after death insurance ? she didnt understand right away my question, but after i explained her, i said : after you die, where do you go , to heaven, or to hell ? she said : to heaven , of course. I asked her: how do you know ? she said, well, i think i am a good person, i don't deserve to go to hell. And btw. i believe in God, actually, i KNOW he exists. I asked her: how do you know ? why are you so sure ? and she answered in such a simple manner: look around you : see all this nature. All these beautyful things the creator made. Do you really believe all this came to be by chance, without a creator ? - I explained her the gospel, and she answered. I praid so many times to God, and saw his miracles happen in my life, i do not doubt about his existence. Next friday, she said, i wish you to visit us again, i will accept the lord as my savior.
you see: simple people, which in their simplicity have wisdom and understanding , more than YOU, which can know the incredible miracles of nature MUCH better than she can, but you do not believe. FOOL !! DNA copies the information of 280 !! bibles in about 60 to 80 minutes, and makes only ONE sintax error through the copy process. No man machine is able to do this, and you don't see a incredibly intelligent designer behind this, more powerful than everything we can imagine ?

 

[Anachronous Rex]

I agree with this completely. It certainly seems like he's trying to do get a point across, he just doesn't realize that the move he keeps making is a disqualifying one if used on its own.

i am at Itacaré, a little cute town with wonderful beaches, where i have a bungalow , and doing maintainance :

http://s521.photobucket.com/albums/w333/ElShamah/?action=view&current=Imagem006.jpg&newest=1

that does not aloud to try to answer the questions here indepth, though they are valid.

Yesterday i visited a friend of mine, which remained paralitic with a car accident. Very humble and poor people. his wife cannot read and write. she is analphabet. some small talk, and i asked here : did you make a after death insurance ? she didnt understand right away my question, but after i explained her, i said : after you die, where do you go , to heaven, or to hell ? she said : to heaven , of course. I asked her: how do you know ? she said, well, i think i am a good person, i don't deserve to go to hell. And btw. i believe in God, actually, i KNOW he exists. I asked her: how do you know ? why are you so sure ? and she answered in such a simple manner: look around you : see all this nature. All these beautyful things the creator made. Do you really believe all this came to be by chance, without a creator ? - I explained her the gospel, and she answered. I praid so many times to God, and saw his miracles happen in my life, i do not doubt about his existence. Next friday, she said, i wish you to visit us again, i will accept the lord as my savior.
you see: simple people, which in their simplicity have wisdom and understanding , more than YOU, which can know the incredible miracles of nature MUCH better than she can, but you do not believe. FOOL !! DNA copies the information of 280 !! bibles in about 60 to 80 minutes, and makes only ONE sintax error through the copy process. No man machine is able to do this, and you don't see a incredibly intelligent designer behind this, more powerful than everything we can imagine ?

Detestable, picking on the crippled and the illiterate. For shame.

 

[Laurens]

you see: simple people, which in their simplicity have wisdom and understanding , more than YOU, which can know the incredible miracles of nature MUCH better than she can, but you do not believe. FOOL !! DNA copies the information of 280 !! bibles in about 60 to 80 minutes, and makes only ONE sintax error through the copy process. No man machine is able to do this, and you don't see a incredibly intelligent designer behind this, more powerful than everything we can imagine ?

Why wouldn't an omnipotent God design DNA with no errors in the copying process? Surely that would be within it's capabilities?

 

[lrkun]

i am at Itacaré, a little cute town with wonderful beaches, where i have a bungalow , and doing maintainance :

http://s521.photobucket.com/albums/w333/ElShamah/?action=view&current=Imagem006.jpg&newest=1

that does not aloud to try to answer the questions here indepth, though they are valid.

Yesterday i visited a friend of mine, which remained paralitic with a car accident. Very humble and poor people. his wife cannot read and write. she is analphabet. some small talk, and i asked here : did you make a after death insurance ? she didnt understand right away my question, but after i explained her, i said : after you die, where do you go , to heaven, or to hell ? she said : to heaven , of course. I asked her: how do you know ? she said, well, i think i am a good person, i don't deserve to go to hell. And btw. i believe in God, actually, i KNOW he exists. I asked her: how do you know ? why are you so sure ? and she answered in such a simple manner: look around you : see all this nature. All these beautyful things the creator made. Do you really believe all this came to be by chance, without a creator ? - I explained her the gospel, and she answered. I praid so many times to God, and saw his miracles happen in my life, i do not doubt about his existence. Next friday, she said, i wish you to visit us again, i will accept the lord as my savior.
you see: simple people, which in their simplicity have wisdom and understanding , more than YOU, which can know the incredible miracles of nature MUCH better than she can, but you do not believe. FOOL !! DNA copies the information of 280 !! bibles in about 60 to 80 minutes, and makes only ONE sintax error through the copy process. No man machine is able to do this, and you don't see a incredibly intelligent designer behind this, more powerful than everything we can imagine ?

Subject to a specks of a computer, it can copy paste anything in text exactly word for word, by pressing control a then control c and lastly control v, in a word processor, no errors involved. If you can do the same without error, I'd be impressed.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Crippled, illiterate and egocentric.

Typical apologist story, with their undertones of human superiority over the entire universe.

 

[DepricatedZero]

I agree with this completely. It certainly seems like he's trying to do get a point across, he just doesn't realize that the move he keeps making is a disqualifying one if used on its own.

i am at Itacaré, a little cute town with wonderful beaches, where i have a bungalow , and doing maintainance :

http://s521.photobucket.com/albums/w333/ElShamah/?action=view&current=Imagem006.jpg&newest=1

that does not aloud to try to answer the questions here indepth, though they are valid.

Yesterday i visited a friend of mine, which remained paralitic with a car accident. Very humble and poor people. his wife cannot read and write. she is analphabet. some small talk, and i asked here : did you make a after death insurance ? she didnt understand right away my question, but after i explained her, i said : after you die, where do you go , to heaven, or to hell ? she said : to heaven , of course. I asked her: how do you know ? she said, well, i think i am a good person, i don't deserve to go to hell. And btw. i believe in God, actually, i KNOW he exists. I asked her: how do you know ? why are you so sure ? and she answered in such a simple manner: look around you : see all this nature. All these beautyful things the creator made. Do you really believe all this came to be by chance, without a creator ? - I explained her the gospel, and she answered. I praid so many times to God, and saw his miracles happen in my life, i do not doubt about his existence. Next friday, she said, i wish you to visit us again, i will accept the lord as my savior.
you see: simple people, which in their simplicity have wisdom and understanding , more than YOU, which can know the incredible miracles of nature MUCH better than she can, but you do not believe. FOOL !! DNA copies the information of 280 !! bibles in about 60 to 80 minutes, and makes only ONE sintax error through the copy process. No man machine is able to do this, and you don't see a incredibly intelligent designer behind this, more powerful than everything we can imagine ?

While we're at appeals to authority, what gives your illiterate cripple more credibility than, say, Jane Goodall?

Or we could go the anecdote route.

I recently attended the funeral of my aunt, who died in a car accident. She swerved to avoid hitting a small animal in the road, hydroplaned, and wrapped her car around a tree, on a Monday morning. She bashed her head into the side of the car. For almost 3 days she was kept alive, if you could call it that, to suffer until almost midnight the following Wednesday. At her funeral, the preacher had the audacity to blame me, and any other "part of her life that questions the good lord," for her death. As if my 'foolish disbelief' had anything to do with it. At no point was the funeral even about her, or her husband, or son. The preacher they got used it as a platform to spew politics and blame.

Finally, your DNA example is dead. Seriously? You truly believe that there isn't a machine in existence that is capable of copying 280 bibles in 60-80 minutes? What do I get if I show you one? Will you worship it as god? Better yet, would you worship me, its builder, as god?

(p.s. I can imagine a creator who has a spellchecker)

 

[Japhia888]

Finally, your DNA example is dead. Seriously? You truly believe that there isn't a machine in existence that is capable of copying 280 bibles in 60-80 minutes? What do I get if I show you one? Will you worship it as god? Better yet, would you worship me, its builder, as god?

(p.s. I can imagine a creator who has a spellchecker)

and what makes you believe, matter could self assemble, and start a copy process like this ? Your pc didnt self assemble. A intelligent mind had to build and programm it, to do the job.......

 

[lrkun]

Finally, your DNA example is dead. Seriously? You truly believe that there isn't a machine in existence that is capable of copying 280 bibles in 60-80 minutes? What do I get if I show you one? Will you worship it as god? Better yet, would you worship me, its builder, as god?

(p.s. I can imagine a creator who has a spellchecker)

and what makes you believe, matter could self assemble, and start a copy process like this ? Your pc didnt self assemble. A intelligent mind had to build and programm it, to do the job.......

Do you mean to say that the pc's god is 0? Accordingly, am I right when I say that your idea of a god is an amplification of what a human is and an amplification of what a human's creation is, like when a man makes a pc, god makes the universe? If yes, why? if no, why?

Also, does this not suggest that maybe, something human made the universe and not a god? and our main problem is there is no creator who show's himself and fixes the universe, while with respect to 0's pc, he can tweak it in which assuming the pc is conscious, it can clearly see, feel, and sense him.

 

[DepricatedZero]

and what makes you believe, matter could self assemble, and start a copy process like this ? Your pc didnt self assemble. A intelligent mind had to build and programm it, to do the job.......

Physics, perhaps?

You're missing the point. Your posited god isn't even as powerful as my Folding computer, and makes more errors.

The Watchmaker's Fallacy is old and tired, let me cut you off on that before you even get started.

 

[borrofburi]

you see: simple people, which in their simplicity have wisdom and understanding , more than YOU, which can know the incredible miracles of nature MUCH better than she can, but you do not believe. FOOL !! DNA copies the information of 280 !! bibles in about 60 to 80 minutes, and makes only ONE sintax error through the copy process. No man machine is able to do this, and you don't see a incredibly intelligent designer behind this, more powerful than everything we can imagine ?

This answers no questions, and we have now proceeded from "my god is the best explanation" to "you just hate god!" and other insane strawmen, not one of which are really on topic.

So...
Short Version:
This thread is now locked because of Japhia's continual refusal to engage in on-topic discussion, specifically to answer the questions at hand (despite Japhia's occasional vain attempts to copy paste things that didn't quite answer the question (and sometimes didn't even really address the question at all, not even incidentally)), and especially Japhia's recent move to "arguments" such as the one quoted above.

Long Version:
I think that I shall lock this thread. I was going to warn Japhia, but I see both Squawk and Gnug have threatened to close it if Japhia continued to fail to answer questions, and it really does seem silly to have a 3rd warning just because I'm a different mod. If I weren't quite certain Japhia would continue to fail to answer them, I might still just give a 3rd warning, but really, 33 pages, the last... ten to fifteen of which are basically us re-asking our questions and Japhia re-refusing to answer them (or copying and pasting things only cursorily relevant); I think that's more than enough.

Here's a reminder of some of the questions (certainly not all, I'm missing a ton) Japhia failed to answer (I guess technically mine isn't a set of questions, but still a post he refused to ever address other than to call it stupid, I leave it up to the reader to determine if Japhia's refusal to even attempt to discuss it was merited), for any 3rd party that happens to read this at a later date:

How can you expect to be taken seriously when you simply ignore posts that you find inconvenient, making absurd claims of superiority while failing to even attempt to address the questions raised?

All your arguments are god of the gaps arguments (we don't understand something therefore god did it), arguments from incredulity (I can't explain this therefore no explanation exists therefore god did it), and arguments from ignorance (prove me wrong!) as well as just ignorant arguments (namely your failure to understand basic logic, basic information theory, and basic evolutionary biology (and, evidently, from AW's posts, basic astro-physics and astronomy)):
-kalaam: we don't know the precise details of the beginning of the universe therefore god did it
-fine tuning: our models have problems, therefore god created the universe
-abiogenesis: we don't know the precise details of RNA-DNA formation therefore god did it
-DNA: I am incredulous at the idea that DNA is just a molecule operating by chemical rules and it seems extra special, therefore god did it (this one also relies heavily on the frankly dishonest fallacy of equivocation)
-moral arugment: I can't understand how social morality could evolve, therefore god did it (this one is primarily an argument from incredulity)


Moreover all your arguments fall prey to a circular logical fallacy of the form:
1) god did it
2) therefore god exists
which presumes, in the antecedent, the conclusion
...
and you STILL haven't answered my question: please rigidly demonstrate how to tell the difference between a "code" that has "intelligence" behind it and a "pattern" that doesn't have intelligence behind it.

COPY PASTA HADOKEN!!!

We know what DNA is, but you have failed to answer whether all of NonCoding DNA is a code.

You've also failed to answer whether you understand that DNA can randomly (form) polymerize in nature and whether you think that is a code too?

Where in the process of chemical transcription is the literal code, Japhia?
Why do you continuously post from sources that have been proven to be wrong or lying, Japhia?
Why can't you count back from now into infinity, Japhia?
Why are you ignoring that people have given you a better explanation than God, Japhia?
Why do you believe that the universe runs purely on chance, Japhia?
Why do you run away when you are confronted with your fallacies, Japhia?

Why aren't you answering these questions, Japhia?