Fuck Israel!

[ImprobableJoe]

I mean, seriously?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/02/israel-closes-inquiry-gaza-family-killing

I'm not sure which bit I should be more outraged by:

The Israeli military has closed its file on the killing of 21 members of a Palestinian family during the Gaza war in 2009, saying there were no grounds for criminal or disciplinary action against those responsible for the shelling of the house in which civilians were sheltering.

Or, based on the sociopathic evil of the pro-Israel lobby in America, maybe this is worse:

About 1,400 Palestinians and 13 Israelis were killed in the three-week conflict.

Someone show me ANY three week period in the last 30 years where more Israelis were killed than Palestinians, and I'll reconsider the obviously bullshit notion that Israel is oppressing the Palestinians out of existential fear. A FUCKING DECADE AGO I had this same argument with a pro-Israel psychopath who pointed me to a link where she claimed that Israel was threatened by Palestinians, and the death ratio was about the same as in this article, over a hundred dead Palestinians for each dead Israeli.

If I were in a fistfight with someone, and each time they hit me was a hundred times weaker than when I hit them, I wouldn't call them a threat, or try to claim that I needed to shoot them in self-defense.

 

[televator]

It's outright slaughter based on the numbers. Holy shit... Stuff like this sickens me to think that our country offers unconditional support to the Israeli state as they continue to enact the modern day irony of all ironies.

 

[PAB]

It's outright slaughter based on the numbers. Holy shit... Stuff like this sickens me to think that our country offers unconditional support to the Israeli state as they continue to enact the modern day irony of all ironies.

I hope your sickness was already pre -existing. When considering the amount of civilians the US have killed from Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. And including their foreign policy which they dress up as freedom and defending rights. When it is purely economic and political imperialist strategy. Israel looks like a toddler looking up to its older brother in comparison. And The reason the US has unconditional support for Israel is that Israel is a strategic state for the US regarding potential conflict (war or economic) with the middle eastern states.
(That's not to downplay Jewish nationalism and their desire for their own state, which they have a right to ...it would be a mistake to be pro israel or pro palestine)

 

[malicious_bloke]

...it would be a mistake to be pro israel or pro palestine)

The issue summed up nicely.

If you reversed the power differential so the Palestinians were the ones with the white phosphorous and attack helicopters it'd be the Israelis being slaughtered in disproportionately high numbers.

Basically the only way to solve the whole deal is build a massive wall around them both and let them play Brockian Ultra Cricket until they're all dead.

 

[televator]

It's outright slaughter based on the numbers. Holy shit... Stuff like this sickens me to think that our country offers unconditional support to the Israeli state as they continue to enact the modern day irony of all ironies.

I hope your sickness was already pre -existing. When considering the amount of civilians the US have killed from Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq. And including their foreign policy which they dress up as freedom and defending rights. When it is purely economic and political imperialist strategy. Israel looks like a toddler looking up to its older brother in comparison. And The reason the US has unconditional support for Israel is that Israel is a strategic state for the US regarding potential conflict (war or economic) with the middle eastern states.
(That's not to downplay Jewish nationalism and their desire for their own state, which they have a right to ...it would be a mistake to be pro israel or pro palestine)

It is. I guess we can call this a flare up of such sickness then. I think it needs to be noted however that you don't need to be pro Israel or pro Palestine. If you're pro human, you'd feel sorry for any event where people are slaughtered out of blanket prejudice.

 

[CEbbesen]

Israel is a crazy country. Fuck them

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Israel is a crazy country. Fuck them

Yeah! And to the extent that America and other Western nations support the Israeli murder of innocents, fuck them too. :evil:

 

[Dogma's Demise]

War is hell...

You know, I find it really hard to say anything negative about Israel (much less something as crude as "fuck Israel"), given the fact that the other side (Palestine) is not just worse, but astronomically worse. (Have you forgotten who they're dealing with here?) A brutal "state" run by radical Islamists and terrorists, waging the most pointless struggle in existence for a land they don't even fully have claims to (sorry guys, Jews lived in that part of the world long ago for centuries), and keeping their population in the dark ages.

Hamas and Fatah have already made it clear, they want the destruction of Israel and won't back down until that goal is fulfilled. How about their intentional use of human shields? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#By_Palestinians It's no wonder there are so many civilian casualties. The Palestinians they don't care about their own. They want the casualties to go up to make Israel look bad.

Also, the only reason Israeli casualties are lower is because the Palestinians don't have bigger guns. There is no doubt in my mind that if they had the necessary weapons, they would obliterate Israel off the map.

 

[Prolescum]

What do you know... Dogma's Reprise has absolute, black and white, simpleton views of Israel/Palestine. Who would've thunk it?

He neglects the myriad UN resolutions Israel utterly ignores, claims that Palestinians "don't care about their own" because they "want their casualties to go up" to make Israel look bad. He asserts that Palestinian authorities "keep" their population in "the dark ages"; it has nothing to do with the Israeli-controlled borders, air and sea, nothing to do with the perpetual bombardment of Palestinian towns and what's left of their cities or the assets frozen by the Israelis and their western lapdogs, the seizure of Palestinian lands already agreed in prior peace accords for further Israeli settlements, the building of a massive fucking wall through Palestinian towns (and around Israel) or the burning of Palestinian crops near the borders. Let's not even discuss the limitations put upon the Arab population of Israel proper by Israeli "democracy" or the nuclear arsenal the Israelis deny having (or their rejection of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty). The list of Israeli fuckery is almost endless, and without hyperbole, barbaric.

Ignorant fucking bullshit as per usual from the League's star bigot. Un-fucking-believable. And he has the audacity to call Joe crude!


Apartheid is apartheid. Oppression is oppression.

Israel is the problem, not the solution.


*Awaits comical attempt to infer we have anti-semitic views*

 

[Visaki]

That's an argument I stumble upon from time to time in forums where someone criticizes Israel; "but the palestinians are worse". I find this to be an empty argument. That pretty much saying that you find it hard to criticize USSR because the Nazis were worse in WWII. Yes the palestinians have some bad people and organisations among them. They even have some justification to their grievances. Same with the Israeli. The problem there is that Israel want's to show itself as a civilized, western nation that holds western values (whatever they might be). Still their response to palestinian terror attacks, like basically lobbing powered pipes (or "rockets") blindly into Israeli territory which 99% of the time don't carry a payload, is usually so over the limit one tends to wonder if the Americans learned from them or the other way around.

So yes, I criticize Israel. I also criticize the Palestinian authorities. I have to problem in saying that both sides does things that should send them to the international war crimes tribunal and locked up for life. It's an ugly conflict and it won't go away mainly because of the religious aspects of it on both sides.

 

[tuxbox]

Fuck Israel, Palestine and US foreign policy!

 

[Dogma's Demise]

the League's star bigot

Rrrright, your double standards are showing again. Isn't it strange that you have manifested no objection whatsoever to some of the other statements made in this thread such as "Israel is a crazy country. Fuck them"?

Honestly, I'm not surprised Israel ignores those UN resolutions, when the UN's Human Rights Council is continually tainted by countries that don't know the meaning of human rights (I'm mainly talking of course about countries belonging to the OIC - most of them repressive Islamic dictatorships) and who are utterly biased against Israel while ignoring their own atrocities against their own people. The UN is a joke these days, for example Iran was elected on the "Commission on the Status of Women". Kind of like hiring a known serial pedophile to baby sit (or letting Mafiosi run the witness protection program).

Apartheid... Do you know what that is? It's basically a policy of segregation and discrimination as practiced in South Africa decades ago. Blacks didn't have the same rights, interracial marriage was banned, there were zones restricted based on race, heck even restrooms were separate for blacks and whites.

Nothing of this sort exists in Israel. 20% of the population is Arab and they have equal rights and this is not just theory, they can even hold important positions such as judge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Karra - It was an Arab judge among 3 judges that convicted a former Israeli president (Moshe Katsav) of rape. Hmmm, nobody seemed bothered right?

Funny that you mentioned the wall around Israel as something bad. Is the Mexican border an "apartheid" or "oppression" or whatever you want to call it? No, it's just a border and it was meant to keep suicidal fuckers out and other terrorists. How about the real apartheid in Muslim countries, where Palestinians are not given the same treatment as other immigrants or refugees (they can't become citizens, their children can't become citizens, they can't work in many professions, they don't have healthcare etc.) because those countries want to artificially maintain their "Palestinian identity", thereby fueling the conflict for future generations to come?


Look dude, this conflict exists because in 1948, the Arabs didn't accept the partitioning of the land and went to war. Israel accepted the borders, Palestinians did not, they didn't want a Jewish state at all, and still don't want one. Who is the aggressor?

I don't see how there can be peace with the likes of Hamas and Fatah in power. Israel lays down its weapons and these fuckers will only grow stronger and continue their terrorist and warmongering activities.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

War is hell...

You know, I find it really hard to say anything negative about Israel (much less something as crude as "fuck Israel"), given the fact that the other side (Palestine) is not just worse, but astronomically worse.

So you're dead wrong, dishonest, and dumb on this issue as well. What a surprise.

Look, when one side kills 100 times more people than the other, you can't with any honesty say that the side taking all of the losses is "astronomically worse." That's at the very least seriously delusional.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Ignorant fucking bullshit as per usual from the League's star bigot. Un-fucking-believable. And he has the audacity to call Joe crude!

Well, I used a dirty word. He has a filthy lack of character. I guess foul language is worse?

 

[Dogma's Demise]

War is hell...

You know, I find it really hard to say anything negative about Israel (much less something as crude as "fuck Israel"), given the fact that the other side (Palestine) is not just worse, but astronomically worse.

So you're dead wrong, dishonest, and dumb on this issue as well. What a surprise.

Look, when one side kills 100 times more people than the other, you can't with any honesty say that the side taking all of the losses is "astronomically worse." That's at the very least seriously delusional.

Okay that's just complete bullshit and let me give you an example:

If during the course of his lifetime a police officer kills 100 people in active duty (or self-defense or whatever) and a serial killer just 5, you're saying the serial killer is more moral than the policeman because of the pure raw numbers, completely ignoring why they did it?


And by the way, if you put Palestinians and Israelis on a even playing field (same weapons, same technology) who do you think is going to inflict a higher body count?

(Let's not forget what Palestine and Israel are. One is under brutal Islamist terrorist rule in the dark ages, the other is a liberal democracy that leads the world in scientific research. Can you guess which is which?)

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Okay that's just complete bullshit and let me give you an example:

If during the course of his lifetime a police officer kills 100 people in active duty (or self-defense or whatever) and a serial killer just 5, you're saying the serial killer is more moral than the policeman because of the pure raw numbers, completely ignoring why they did it?


And by the way, if you put Palestinians and Israelis on a even playing field (same weapons, same technology) who do you think is going to inflict a higher body count?

(Let's not forget what Palestine and Israel are. One is under brutal Islamist terrorist rule, the other is a liberal democracy. Can you guess which is which?)

If the cop kills 98 civilians and 2 criminals, and misses the serial killer, the cop is worse. And you're wrong. Israel kills more civilians by a wide margin than Palestinians kill Israelis total. It isn't self defense when you have all the money, all the resources, all the weapons, and YOU DO THE MAJORITY OF THE KILLING. Israel isn't a "liberal democracy" at all, it is an apartheid state in violation of international law.

Your analogy is as flawed as the rest of your thinking.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Right, so what is your solution to the conflict?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Right, so what is your solution to the conflict?

Hah! No one has an answer to that one, but a good start would be Israel not crushing flies with sledgehammers, and then maybe adhering to international law. Israel has all the power in this situation.

 

[televator]

Hamas and Fatah have already made it clear, they want the destruction of Israel and won't back down until that goal is fulfilled. How about their intentional use of human shields? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#By_Palestinians It's no wonder there are so many civilian casualties. The Palestinians they don't care about their own. They want the casualties to go up to make Israel look bad.

Did you honestly think a little switcharoo like that would go unnoticed? We go from actions committed by Hamas and Fatah to "the Palestinians" all being in on the whole plan.

Anyway, I won't complain. Bigots are easier to spot when they lack subtlety.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Oh sure, let's nitpick everything I say now and avoid the real issue. Yes, I'm sure some Palestinians (individually) would rather things be different, there is never a complete consensus. Sorry for not speaking the language of political correctness, so let me rephrase that.

The people who run Palestine don't care about their own. They want the casualties to go up to make Israel look bad.

These people are also supported by the vast majority of the population. They had elections and these are the people they put into power, a bunch of Islamists, terrorists and war criminals who make no secret of the fact that they want Israel gone. No peace, no "two-state solution", GONE. They do not recognize Israel's right to exist.