Colloidal Silver

[khronikos]

It's not so easy when the mass has been dumbed down so much as to not vote and to continue to trust its banker owned leaders. The masses treated Obama like Jesus when he was crowned. It was insulting to those of us who know what goes on. Nothing has changed. He is an owned dolly. Things have gotten worse in all ways. Helicopter Ben is now monetizing our debt and printing money like an orgy needs sex on cocaine and he is fucking with China's ( and much of the world's) currency which is perceived by the reserve as large fishy evil. When people do not think for themselves they become dull and pigish. We and much of the world are now like this. Various things reflect this. Our diets, our interests in the arts (literature and poetry almost becoming non existent), and our knowledge of the world and the history of the world.

Our pop culture reflects this too. I find it funny how Music sometimes relates personal taste. From madrigals and arias to symphonies and then swing and jazz to the Beatles and Beach Boys up and through to Zeppelin to Nirvana and Pearl Jam and the like these were all serious artistical phases of pop culture transforming. Sure the 80s were weird but some popular artists like The Cure and Tom Waits survived very well. But who leads the charge these days: nobody worth mentioning. Our pop cultures have been turned to shit here in America. Film has faired somewhat better but literature and music good god they totally are down the shitter imo. That whole sentence may seem arbitrary but its not. You realize that the mass buys and consumes what everybody else is consuming. Taste reflects you as a person. And when it gets to this point it just gets worse and worse until things completely combust or are forced to change. We are headed for that change but god knows when or if it will happen for the better. People have been content to just sit on their asses and not educate themselves about anything AFTER schooling even during.

Life is and should be a continuous process of learning. For most people, they are taught to work and die and to have nothing to do with information and knowledge and good taste in general. I am not saying you must learn everything and know everything. But people are just not as useful as they used to be. We are getting more and more helpless. Coming into this helplessness no health care can leave you fucked for life if you are not careful what you eat and what you put in your body. I agree that CS is something that needs to be monitored and done with care. It needs to be researched more. But like a lot of things it may help people that would otherwise be helpless. It needs to be at least on the table.

Healthcare (and general health knowledge) is a giant problem here. This nation I will admit used to be proud. We are now fat, uneducated, puerile in the highest degree, and so divided it reminds many of the civil war days. The problem here is the people. We (not me) are all sleeping. Some of us are waking up but it is happening so slowly as to barely be noticeable (arguable every new year that comes when nothing changes). Some of my close friends I cannot even talk to about serious subjects as they are completely oblivious to anything outside of the 6 o clock news.

It doesn't help when people are simply not educated about their lifestyles. I have a bad upper wisdom tooth (cracked). I was looking for things to help me alleviate my infection a year ago. Sea salt is what really made things much more tolerable and stopped the abscess. I stumbled on colloidal silver because of the eczema that was starting to show about 6 months ago. I diagnosed this eczema as ringwork at first. I have learned a lot about teeth in the process but it was not generally fun. I do not believe in just home remedies. I also do not believe in doctors much at all anymore. My doctor had no clue this was my tooth giving me the eczema. It is.

I already knew the tooth needed to come out. The eczema did not seem to respond to the colloidal silver but then again bacteria deep in the root in teeth are so notoriously selfish and shitty as to not respond to anything really. I did notice that it seems to make symptoms of certain things better and it seemed to improve my general well being. Again, though, what I have read is that it works well with antibiotics so I am taking penicillin also to remove any infection before the tooth is out. We'll see but in reality the fucking thing just needs to come out and for that I need a dentist and I will not be taking colloidal silver except in small doses as is specified. I was taking a lot of it. I was also oil pulling which does indeed help your mouth out. I am not sure about the claims that it cleans your blood and all. I am still not sure that any of this helped my tooth but what I read gives a little hope. I hope the penicillin and silver can work together to just kill the infection.

I am getting the tooth removed by a dentist. I am generally healthy as a rock but after the tooth cracked and things happened in life I noticed myself becoming lazier, fatter, and just not as sharp as I used to be. It has awakened in me something that was missing. I am glad that I have been led to at least acknowledge that colloidal silver is there though it can never, and will not replace, more valuable information such as dietary concerns involving raw foods, fish oils, fiber, vits and minerals, etc. Anyway, things go on and on.

 

[borrofburi]

If colloidal silver were to solve most health problems it would be reviled. You have not the common sense to see this. It can be made by anyone anywhere. It would be akin to free electricity. You have to see that. No rich person could take advantage of it. This should be obvious.

But wealthy people don't only do things to increase their wealth, the existence of the Nobel prize and the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation (not to mention Norman Borlaug) are strong evidence of this.

 

[khronikos]

Bill Gates I think is a good person with the right aim at heart. He does give away a decent portion of his money. But what he does is so far away from the blood and guts of the world as to almost not even matter. It is the bankers and the elite war machines that still run the world. I do not think that everybody should be a socialist or anything. but currently things are out of balance. The wealthy people have become too few and the middle class has become non existent. All throughout age this is the red herring. This is the marker that says corruption is taking hold and that the wealthy have too much control. There are too many people, and yes that does affect things, but in the end people with unwilling and despotic leaders are not smart enough to live frugally and with discipline because their leaders do not! Computers have changed us though and they may be one of the ways out if people would accept that they have a library at their hands and that that library is important to their self understanding of the world.

--Aside of that, this rambling discussion would move into Roswell territory to discuss if these things were back engineered. Oh fun fights!--

We have discovered that the individual is not powerless anymore. Computers have been the number one thing that has made this happen, along with reason and imagination of course. CS to me represents something that may or may not help people in the end rid their bodies of things that in this industrial age seem to be getting stronger and building up faster (allergies, disease, antibiotic resistance strains). And it also represents the need to move away from the corporate elite which I do believe must be done to save our goddamn souls. These people--forget all the conspiracy and whatever else--are ruining us. Not all of them but a good chunk of them. With only their help it has become apparent that we cannot just trust our lives to the man anymore. It's not helping us, it's making us more stupid and more dependent.

Sorry for the rants and explicit reminders. I can search these forums for other conversations and be more proper as well that other people are warned not to incite the flames.

Truth is a pathless land.

 

[borrofburi]

:roll: Mod Note:

Raise your hand if you are fucking retarded.

Since you were already friendly warned about personal attacks and insults, this is going to be a formal and not-friendly warning to not directly attack the members of this forum.

Also off-topic posts are technically against the rules, and while we tend not to care much, this particular set of rants is quickly resulting in a parallel thread. So either create a new thread for 9/11 discussion, drop that conversation, or face the wrath of the forum moderators.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

As for vaccines I do not generally care for them.

How convenient it must be for you to say such a thing, now that the risk of smallpox is virtually nil. I would remind you however that you may very well owe your lack of retardation/crippled limbs/blindness to the fact that you, or at the very least so many other people, have had vaccines.

I do not agree or disagree with the autism theory.

Well it's a good thing you don't agree with it, because it's been proven wrong repeatedly. As anyone who has ever done even an ounce of actual research would know. Clearly you haven't.

I think it may happen is susceptible individuals but then again a lot of things can happen in these people.

Yeah, susceptible people like those whose bodies are weakened by polio.

I do believe that you should definitely not be getting too many of these shots back to back and that not all of them are needed.

Based on what evidence (if any?)

In general I think about things and make educated decisions based on information from a variety of sources and I believe in nothing no matter who said it.

So far there's been nothing educated about your decisions.

I do think AIDs may have been created in a lab.

We've tracked the evolution of HIV, so probably not. Do some fucking research, this shit isn't hard.

I can verify that certain Rockefellors have openly said they want to reduce world populations.

I'm sure many of people have.

Is there a connection.

No.

Who the hell knows.

I do.

There is a healthy balance that needs to be reached. Being abused by pharma companies left and right with ads is not a healthy balance. Being told by your doctor that there are no alternatives is not a healthy balance.

Ahriman forbid your doctor try to give you the best medical treatment available instead of something he or she knows will not work.

There are always alternatives.

Some of them just happen to work.

Whether they work in the question. Because of funding this is not the easiest question to answer.

Actually funding is fairly simple. It wouldn't take hardly anything to set up a study of silver vs. placebo. Hell, I went to a small, private college; even they could have done this without much trouble.

What can be answered is that for thousands of years people lived without the problems in the quantity we are now seeing. Many of these things never existed or were so remote as to be nil.

You see, this is where you are completely, absolutely, and totally wrong. Just look at average life expectancy, or ask yourself when was the last time you heard of someone in your community getting tuberculosis? Modern medicine is allowing people to live longer, and to die of conditions that few previously lived to develop. Cancer, for instance, is inevitable. You live long enough, you will get cancer. The same goes for a thousand other conditions, human bodies simply aren't made to last. Count yourself lucky that you may one day live to see your hip wear out, your bones crumble, your prostate swell, and veins harden, instead of dying at 8 of influenza.

I can keep going if you want.

 

[Squawk]

Hehe

One of the virtues of having several relatives who work in the construction industry, specifically at or above director level in large scale steel structure construction, is that you have many EXTREMELY good source of information on what is and is not possible with steel.

The cross industry conclusion on the performance of the world trade center (non-us I might add) is that the steel performed to a level that exceeded expectation given the conditions it was subjected to and could actually be used to promote the use of steel versus pre-cast concrete for construction of various projects for safety reasons.

So you keep telling me about your hundred hours of research, and I'll just rest on the collective centuries of real world experience on the performance of steel under given conditions that I have immediate access to and I'll continue to laugh.

As an aside, why is it that the conspiracy nuts jump on every conspiracy, not just pick one? I bet he doesn't like global warming either.

 

[Gnug215]

Hehe

One of the virtues of having several relatives who work in the construction industry, specifically at or above director level in large scale steel structure construction, is that you have many EXTREMELY good source of information on what is and is not possible with steel.

The cross industry conclusion on the performance of the world trade center (non-us I might add) is that the steel performed to a level that exceeded expectation given the conditions it was subjected to and could actually be used to promote the use of steel versus pre-cast concrete for construction of various projects for safety reasons.

So you keep telling me about your hundred hours of research, and I'll just rest on the collective centuries of real world experience on the performance of steel under given conditions that I have immediate access to and I'll continue to laugh.

You're not exactly helping with the un-derailing of the thread.

As an aside, why is it that the conspiracy nuts jump on every conspiracy, not just pick one? I bet he doesn't like global warming either.

This is a very interesting question. A common factor seems to be the belief that large scale conspiracies (that is, millions of people being in on something, and everyone able to shut up about it and hide all evidence of a huge-ass conspiracy) are even possible, and that people in large groups are actually clever, devious and emotionally detatched enough to pull it off.
From there it just becomes a question of pointing the finger at any random conglomeration of people (the government, big pharma, scientists, "the powers that be" or sometimes just "they").
There isn't much one can say to an accusation like that, because if there really were a conspiracy, then no one would admit it, and they would deny it. And lo and behold, if asked, they deny it! Just like I could accuse you of a crime, and say that it would be suspicious or an admission of guilt if you just denied it!
Just like it's hard to disprove God's existence...

Hmm, this is actually a bit of a thread derailing, too, I guess, so...

But in conclusion, colloidal silver should be burned to the ground.

 

[Squawk]

But in conclusion, colloidal silver should be burned to the ground.

Or diluted into homeopathy.

 

[khronikos]

There is nothing that should be burned to the ground here. I love how you guys come in, one after another, and use your own opinions as if they were an inherent truth in themselves as your 'factual evidence'. None of you, I mean NONE of you, give anything other than anectdotal evidence, mostly your own egotistical diatribe directed against the other person, and use this as your whip and your execution device. Dude, again, this shit doesn't work. Either you bring factual evidence or you bring nothing, just as I was advised before posting to the forums. And if you are going to go off topic again I am going to answer you and refute most of what was just said.

As for the funding. Your whole rant there is inevitably ridiculous. Funding takes well over a hundred million dollars to get something made and approved by the FDA to be sold for ailments that some people claim CS is helping. A placebo vs CS thing would be easy to do. Not really. We have already went over how you need large studies in humans to be sure of anything. I don't even know why you chose to respond to that. Funding is serious money. Not arguable.

As for autism. I already made it clear I have no concern for this. Why you even bring it up makes me question your motives. You appear like many people on here to want to contradict everything that anybody else has to say contrary to your own opinion. Good luck with that. If anything reducing thimerosal has been done and it was done for a reason. Whether this causes autism is not of my concern. This does not invalidate the concern that vaccines are not harmless in any way.

Most medical doctors have a serious lack of anything related to homeopathy or natural herbs. Yeah. True. So, why would they know works and what doesn't. Uh, they don't. There are taught to sell drugs that alleviate symptoms for the most part. Nobody was arguing anything against vaccines that were made decades ago to fight infestations of major diseases. This is a far cry from the thousands of barely tested drugs we sell for everything now.

You guys really tire me. None of you brings anything but your own opinion, there are a few collections of facts to be sure, and it is why no longstanding conversations here take place but among yourselves. Cool stuff.

Oh, and your HIV stuff. You might want to note I WAS TALKING ABOUT AIDS NOT HIV! I don't disagree with anything in that paper and again I don't have the knowledge to talk about the subject as if I have a PhD on the subject and I doubt very few here do. There is actually a quote from a UC berkeley guy in the papers below lol.

http://www.mind-trek.com/reports/tl09a.htm

"To say that HIV is the cause of AIDS is to cast aside everything we know about retroviruses," says Duesberg, a member of the National Academy of Sciences (UC-Berkeley Prof.) who has been studying retroviruses for twenty years. The HIV theory, he says, is inconsistent, paradoxical and absurd - little more than a by-product of a decade-old search for a retrovirus that could be called the cause of cancer.

"In fact, HIV is found in far more healthy humans than sick humans. This is very embarrassing to many people. They'd rather ignore it."

"For a parasite or a virus to be pathogenic [disease-causing], it has to meet three criteria:

One. It must be biochemically active. In other words it must do something to get something done.

Two. It would have to affect or intoxicate more cells of a host, an animal or a human, than the host can spare or regenerate. Stated otherwise, you would only suffer from influenza virus if it kills or infects a significant portion of your lung cells, the polio virus if it gets into your nervous system, or if the hepatitis virus takes hold of a large part of your liver. You wouldn't notice an infection that involves 0.01 percent of your cells. That would be what you would call a latent infection. We all get them. Most of us have a latent tuberculosis infection, for example.

Three. The host must be genetically and immunologically permissive. It has to let it happen, so to speak. It has to accept the pathogen. It cannot be immune to it.

The HIV virus, the so-called AIDS virus, does not meet one of these criteria. For instance, the virus is never active - not only in those who have no symptoms, but also in those who develop full-blown AIDS and die from it. Even in people who are dying of AIDS, the virus is hardly detectable, measured only by locating its antibody. An antibody to a virus is like a vaccination; it has been traditionally, and still is, the ultimate weapon against a virus. It is an indication of a past disease, not of a future disease. If you have antibodies, you should be congratulated. You are safe. You don't have to worry about it any more. But somehow, they have convinced the public to believe that the disease is yet to come, which really makes no sense; it's absurd. Once the antibody is made, the show for the virus is over. The time for the virus to strike and cause disease is before immunity, not after immunity."

SPIN: How has your theory been received - or I should say not received - by the scientific community?
DUESBERG: Those who are really direct targets of this - who are working closely with it and making these major claims that HIV is what causes AIDS - have not responded at all directly. And indirectly, well, I know them. Like Bob Gallo, for instance, we are old friends. I spoke to him two weeks ago, and he said, "With friends like you, who needs enemies?" And he literally runs away from me. Usually when you challenge a major hypothesis, you get a rebuttal, but here it's total avoidance. They don't want to talk, they don't want to be seen by me. A few examples: I was at the National Institute of Health (NIH) two months ago, in the same building where Gallo works. We went to the movies, and I said, "Look Bob, I really don't believe these claims. I am really convinced now that it can't be so. You have to find another explanation." He's certainly not a shy person, but ever since, he just doesn't want to be seen arguing or talking about it with me, not even at a party. There was a party with mutual friends of ours who invited us because they wanted to see us debate it, and he refused to come. We were both invited to a memorial meeting for a colleague. Gallo said, "Is Peter Duesberg coming? Because if he comes, I don't want to come on the same day." It's very strange.

I can play this all day too. Guess what? It is all a bunch of words. I don't really care one way or the other. It is still very possible that AIDS is man made and actually with all the information it is more than likely. Maybe you need to read a few books about it before you try and prove something that I didn't even say. Guess you might not know what the hell you are talking about. Please don't forget that the atomic bomb was made in the 30s-40s. They weren't exactly retarded back then. Our government was very influential and very powerful and very much led by a very few rich men just as it is today. They are capable of anything. Including owning just about anything they want to including studies for pharma, newpapers, universities of who they fund, etc. Valuable information is controlled. Information from universities can be highly suspect when it applies to highly contentious issues such as global warming, AIDS, or something like BPA. It is not my right to say what is truth and what is wrong only to offer knowledge or information I might have.

And again, this gets back to the current thing here on these boards. Infestation of opinions voiced as truth. There is nothing more demonic imo. It should be stopped but it will not so carry on.

I love again how you just take out statements from my posts and try to nitpick at each and every one of them without taking anything into the greater context of the post. I have already given you medical frickin' studies on colloidal silver. The only thing anybody here does to refute any of it is to say it was on plates, it means it's toxic blah blah. Sorry bub, you are not a scientist and you have no business telling me that these official studies mean nothing. You call it toxic because of this or that. Yet you have nothing to prove that it is toxic. Just because it was tested on agar plates means nothing of a toxicity to humans. It is toxic to the bacteria or viruses it was put upon. Toxicity in humans is basically going off of millions of users. You cannot get more of study than that. Nobody had dropped dead or turned blue that used it right. Next in line would be to do actual testing on the diseases in humans. Guess what? It will never happen.

Why? because nobody wants it to happen whether it's true or not. There is no money in something that can be made cheaply, in something that can actually solve your problem. There is only money in continual dosage and sickness. If you bothered to read those studies you would have come away with useful information. But you people choose to take what you want and you form your own belief which is to obviously negate anything contrary to your belief. You would all do very well in the crusades. You are talking mad because you want so badly to look smart and righteous. We have a serious amount of colloidal silver users in the world and none of them are suffering from anything related to CS when they properly make this stuff themselves. NONE OF THEM.

I have been taking 16 ounces a day of this stuff for a month. Sorry dude, I am not turning blue nor do I feel ill in the slightest. I feel better than I have in a long time. I don't get sick. I live in ice cold weather half the year with other people getting sick. I live a healthy lifestyle. Deal with the fact that none of you can provide any documentation that colloidal silver, as properly made just LIKE ANY OTHER HELPFUL SUBSTANCE, and with reasonable limits, AS ANY OTHER HELPFUL SUBSTANCE, will do any harm to anybody.

It's like everybody here just runs their mouth and expects that because of your god given genius we are supposed to trust whatever you say because yes all those 'nuts' who don't trust the government that keeps us fed on drugs and war are just completely insane. All the while the middle class is completely obliterated, getting fatter and poorer by the year, and all the politicians are still rolling in the cash. But get this, we should not learn to think for ourselves when we have all kinds of pharmatoxics to take whenever we get sick from our horrible lifestyles. Yeah, man, I am starting to think multiple people here work in the 'industry'. You say that cancer is inevitable. Please, stop using statements as if they were truth. Do none of the rules you people espouse apply to yourselves? Prove to me that the hundreds of different cancers we see today are inevitable.

http://www.historum.com/ancient-history/17108-cancer-rare-among-ancient-egyptians.html

That link doesn't prove anything. But it certainly opens up discussion. Something I don't think you are capable of because you make it apparent you believe something and that we all should too. Sorry, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. Until many more studies and factual evidence appear as they will in the next century you cannot sit there and act like cancer is not a symptom of the industrial age. Many cultures lived long enough to get cancer but it certainly was not nearly as prevalent as it is today. Of course diet has a huge impact here. What you eat will influence many things. What we eat today is generally thought of as horrible to diets of the past. This is not hearsay. People are fatter today than they have ever been on average. FACT.

Again, the fact that this conversation has been approached by various people with the same exact style of trying to delegate what goes on and what is accepted, lends a whole air of weirdness around here. Fine. But I don't agree with you on many issues and I never will no matter how many trivial statements you want to line up to make it look like you are proving something when in all honesty you are just running your mouth to look smart and it is so obvious to anybody with half a brain.

And what the hell is that WTC post. What did you honestly just say there that has any relevance to anything. And then you act like my couple hundred hours of research was disproven. WTF! Who do you think you are? You have just posted something with absolutely zero relevance to anyone.

"The cross industry conclusion on the performance of the world trade center (non-us I might add) is that the steel performed to a level that exceeded expectation given the conditions it was subjected to and could actually be used to promote the use of steel versus pre-cast concrete for construction of various projects for safety reasons."

Cross industry conclusion. OMFG. Care to back this up. YOU CANNOT JUST INSIST THAT YOUR OWN OPINION IS TRUTH. NO ONE WILL BELIEVE YOU. I can back up my claims one hundred percent. But then again we were supposed to be on topic. Steel performed to levels exceeding expectation. LOFL! I have never heard anything so drastically dumbfounded in my entire life. Show me the study, who did it, who their financial backing comes from and what they were trying to prove. And who or what in the 'cross industry' was allowed to touch the steel when it was shipped off to china almost immediately? There were no studies done on the steel from the cross industry. All the 'cross industry' knows is what the government tells them. Entire high alloy steel structures do not melt and turn into concrete dust from the fires made by a plane of high grade kerosene. Weakened steel structures do not dissolve into molten steel that was viewable in aerial graphs for weeks after the incident.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/thermite.php

And please, if you are relying on some popular mechanics bullshit that was debunked 9000 times by people with PhD credentials then you are out of your mind. The building were in fine standing except for all the asbestos that needed to be renovated at a cost of billions. There have literally been over 20 fires since 9/11 that have left tall buildings and skyscrapers burning full steam for longer than the 9/11 incident, more than one for over 48 hours, of which it left nothing but the steel structure intact. Not one has even come close to collapsing.

WTC 7 was never hit by a plane and was not on fire. It collapsed in exactly the same manner. Same kind of dust, same kind of molten steel. Man, I am not going to even start here. I say that politely though I don't plan on coming back here to this random I am smarter than you bullshit.

Try reading about 9/11 and actually posting something relevant if you are going to post at all. I PERSONALLY know people that are involved with the families of 9/11 who are involved with the 9/11 truth movement as I am who have the backing of an entire armada of professionals from all over the world that know about every facet of the whole happening as well as its subsequent investigation by the government controlled committee. So, uh, I'll just rely on my actual knowledge and you can rely on 'that' whatever the heck that is. Cool with me. Anytime you want to walk into the real world it's right here:

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Seriously, do some research on that site because it has more information from professionals directly involved than you could ever drag up anywhere else. You cannot refute these people. There is nothing to refute. Don't tell me some bullshit story and act like you know what you are talking about. And please tell me you are from Europe too and really have no interest in 9/11 but would like to feign so. That would just make it hilarious. I bet you know just about nothing but what you saw on TV or from some Washington directed study if you even bothered to read them. A common problem with people that try to have opinions when they know nothing about the subject is that they have zero information to give. Please, don't post about the subject again. I am well aware of the condition of the buildings and thousands of other things that I have no doubt you are completely bereft of the knowledge to have an opinion on. It's pretty obvious you don't know jack about 9/11. Why you are trying to convince yourself that I don't only proves what is going on here beyond a reasonable doubt. You people think you are better than other people.

So there is no discussion to be had here. You people ask why there are conspiracy theorists. I mean, is it really that hard to fathom why people do not trust their government? Just like in Vietnam when the Tonkin Gulf incident was a conspiracy and anyone believing that crap was insane? Oops, what happened there? There are a dozens more incidents just like the Tonkin Gulf and there will always be. Why? Money and Power. End of story.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

So there is no discussion to be had here.

That's the only true thing you've ever posted.

Here's the real issue: everything you post is not only stupid and wrong, but has been dealt with by everyone here before, in ridiculous detail, sometimes in this very thread but also in other threads. Your problem is that you are so egotistical and self-absorbed that instead of using the search function on this site to see where everything you say has been dealt with previously, you expect to be able to vomit up a half-dozen conspiracy theories and have all of the arguments rehashed JUST FOR YOU.

Do you really think that you're so important that you deserve to have every dumb thing you say personally debunked? I wouldn't be surprised, because every single other conspiracy nutter has the exact same inflated opinion of themselves. All of you show up here and post the exact same thing, and you do it with the attitude that you've discovered something new and unique and powerful that no one has ever heard of before, and we should be amazed and start scrambling to deal with it. I hate to break the bad news to you chum... just because something is new to you doesn't mean it is actually new, let alone that it actually has any validity.

So go use the search function. Read the hundreds of pages of links and evidence debunking your silly little delusions, and then come back here and thank us for providing you with all that information.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

There is nothing that should be burned to the ground here. I love how you guys come in, one after another, and use your own opinions as if they were an inherent truth in themselves as your 'factual evidence'. None of you, I mean NONE of you, give anything other than anectdotal evidence, mostly your own egotistical diatribe directed against the other person, and use this as your whip and your execution device. Dude, again, this shit doesn't work. Either you bring factual evidence or you bring nothing, just as I was advised before posting to the forums.

Thou fool! You claim your brother has a mote in his eye, but can you not see the log in thine own?

As for the funding. Your whole rant there is inevitably ridiculous. Funding takes well over a hundred million dollars to get something made and approved by the FDA to be sold for ailments that some people claim CS is helping. A placebo vs CS thing would be easy to do. Not really. We have already went over how you need large studies in humans to be sure of anything. I don't even know why you chose to respond to that. Funding is serious money. Not arguable.

You could do a decent study on, say, a hundred volunteers for the cost of an equity loan on a large house. If that got positive result getting venture capital for a larger venture would be easy. Might be a little hard to patent the medical use of an element though...

This does not invalidate the concern that vaccines are not harmless in any way.

No doubt about it, vaccines kill people - but they kill less people then diseases do. I don't suppose you're old enough to remember polio, or smallpox? My uncles and gran'thers did. Ask some older relatives about how well vaccines did for them.

Most medical doctors have a serious lack of anything related to homeopathy or natural herbs.

Homeothapy, aka magic water? Why would any doctor know a darn thing about it? And, as I mention before, many medicines (say, aspirin) were herbs refined to be safer and more effective.

I love again how you just take out statements from my posts and try to nitpick at each and every one of them without taking anything into the greater context of the post. I have already given you medical frickin' studies on colloidal silver.

I'm going to repeat; those showed that silver killed living cells in a petri dish. You could replicate those experiments with hydrogen peroxide, or sulfuric acid, or liquid magma - those would all kill living cells in petri dishes. Would you say a liquid magma treatment would be effective on a human? You need to have, at the least, animal trials.

Toxicity in humans is basically going off of millions of users. You cannot get more of study than that. Nobody had dropped dead or turned blue that used it right.

You've moved from evidence to anecdote. You can study it a lot more - keeping logs of illnesses, doing blood work, tracking symptoms over a course of a year. How do you know that people were using it "wrong" - is there a vulnerable population? Does the optimal dose vary? Based on what factors? Most importantly, how can you demonstrate all these things? You need evidence.

Why? because nobody wants it to happen whether it's true or not. There is no money in something that can be made cheaply, in something that can actually solve your problem.

And yet people are selling this, so there is obviously money to be made. It's a paradox - people making money by claiming that there's no profit possible in their product.

We have a serious amount of colloidal silver users in the world and none of them are suffering from anything related to CS when they properly make this stuff themselves. NONE OF THEM.

Even if we accept this, at what rate are they experiencing illness? How can you demonstrate this?

I have been taking 16 ounces a day of this stuff for a month. Sorry dude, I am not turning blue nor do I feel ill in the slightest. I feel better than I have in a long time. I don't get sick. I live in ice cold weather half the year with other people getting sick. I live a healthy lifestyle. Deal with the fact that none of you can provide any documentation that colloidal silver, as properly made just LIKE ANY OTHER HELPFUL SUBSTANCE, and with reasonable limits, AS ANY OTHER HELPFUL SUBSTANCE, will do any harm to anybody.

I haven't gotten sick in the last two years, either. No reason for it, I'm not a particularly healthy individual, just chance. You need to demonstrate that your solution is repeatable and reliable for a statistically significant population. No, anecdote is not good enough for this purpose.

It's like everybody here just runs their mouth and expects that because of your god given genius we are supposed to trust whatever you say because yes all those 'nuts' who don't trust the government that keeps us fed on drugs and war are just completely insane. All the while the middle class is completely obliterated, getting fatter and poorer by the year, and all the politicians are still rolling in the cash. But get this, we should not learn to think for ourselves when we have all kinds of pharmatoxics to take whenever we get sick from our horrible lifestyles. Yeah, man, I am starting to think multiple people here work in the 'industry'.

I know, it's cliche to say it, but making claims that people are secretly acting against you without proof is paranoia. Multiple people, on one board that has maybe a couple hundred viewers? That would be an absolutely ridiculous use of resources, the expense could never be justified. Corporate "activism" in places like this rarely goes further then the banner ads.

If you want an example, look at Scientology. They did (and presumably still do, to some extent) employ online agents to alter online conversations in their favor. They could barely manage it when few people knew what Scientology was - it's completely impossible now, even with religious zealots working 16 hour days on it.

You say that cancer is inevitable. Please, stop using statements as if they were truth. Do none of the rules you people espouse apply to yourselves? Prove to me that the hundreds of different cancers we see today are inevitable.

High cancer rates are actually a good thing - it means that people are living long enough to die of cancer instead of another cause. Check the average human lifespan - it's gone up consistently ever since the industrial revolution.

That link doesn't prove anything. But it certainly opens up discussion. Something I don't think you are capable of because you make it apparent you believe something and that we all should too. Sorry, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU. Until many more studies and factual evidence appear as they will in the next century you cannot sit there and act like cancer is not a symptom of the industrial age. Many cultures lived long enough to get cancer but it certainly was not nearly as prevalent as it is today. Of course diet has a huge impact here. What you eat will influence many things. What we eat today is generally thought of as horrible to diets of the past. This is not hearsay. People are fatter today than they have ever been on average. FACT.

An interesting aside - there's one form of cancer that has actually decreased in the last fifty years: stomach cancer. This obliterates the "we eat toxins" explanation entirely.

http://www.healthjockey.com/2009/08/11/stomach-cancer-cases-appear-to-have-decreased-by-nearly-50-percent/

 

[khronikos]

AT LEAST Wilborn can speak decently. I am not even going to bother answering the drivel that is this again if it comes up:

That's the only true thing you've ever posted.

Here's the real issue: everything you post is not only stupid and wrong, but has been dealt with by everyone here before, in ridiculous detail, sometimes in this very thread but also in other threads. Your problem is that you are so egotistical and self-absorbed that instead of using the search function on this site to see where everything you say has been dealt with previously, you expect to be able to vomit up a half-dozen conspiracy theories and have all of the arguments rehashed JUST FOR YOU.

Do you really think that you're so important that you deserve to have every dumb thing you say personally debunked? I wouldn't be surprised, because every single other conspiracy nutter has the exact same inflated opinion of themselves. All of you show up here and post the exact same thing, and you do it with the attitude that you've discovered something new and unique and powerful that no one has ever heard of before, and we should be amazed and start scrambling to deal with it. I hate to break the bad news to you chum... just because something is new to you doesn't mean it is actually new, let alone that it actually has any validity.

So go use the search function. Read the hundreds of pages of links and evidence debunking your silly little delusions, and then come back here and thank us for providing you with all that information.

Dude, good god you are so full of shit. Everything you posted has nothing to do with anything and has no relevance whatsoever in any of my posts. There is nothing to debunk in my posts. We have went over this a thousand times. There may be some wording that needs fixing. There may be some opinions. I have said anything that I am forcing on anybody else. Again, I make no claims for colloidal silver except that I seem to not get colds or colds and flu seem to disappear very fast when I take it. Again, I don't expect people to debunk things when there is nothing to debunk. You are trying to hard to find something where there is nothing. You can disagree with some of my statements as Wilborn did but beyond that there is not much to do. I have not discover anything unique or powerful what the fuck are you seriously trying to say bud. 9/11 truth has been ongoing for almost a decade and it is tens of millions strong. We want an independent investigation based on the hundreds of facts and coverups in the case. There is no conspiracy really. It is a call for the victims of the families to be told the truth, as well all of the world to know why and what happened exactly, in detail. For all information related to the all the security cameras that have been held under lock and key to be released. They never will. For all the people involved to receive due compensation for all the asbestos in the air that killed many and continues to kill more first responders. I don't know what you think you know but it ain't a whole lot about 9/11.

Silly delusions. Care to list them: I'll be waiting. What are my delusions? I demand to know what they are based on my limited post history. What about everything that I posted has been debunked. Please enlighten me. 9/11 surely has not been debunked because it still is an ongoing fucking conspiracy kind of like Gulf of Tonkin was before they finally admitted it was all a hoax to get into Vietnam. Except in 9/11 there are thousands upon thousands of pieces of evidence that run contrary to the government opinion on the matter. A government that is factually one of the worst and most corrupt there has ever been. Not only that but I have directly given you the website where you can learn about 9/11 instead of saying this or that use the search function blah blah. Nobody has debunked 9/11 truth engineers and architects. All their information is based on real and factual evidence. You are going to have a tough fucking time debunking them.

As for AIDS. yeah, you might as well read that whole article at Mind Trek. AIDS has never been shown to be related to HIV. That scientist knows Gallo personally as I have demonstrated. Gallo and his people have direct links to the industry of HIV testing which nets them millions of dollars and yet no conclusive evidence has EVER been posted that shows a link. This is not arguable it is fact.

As for Wilborn. I don't necessarily disagree with you. My point is that you can prove nothing to the opposite, that CS is harmful and until you do this discussion remains open. I have maintained that I feel there is nothing toxic about it. I believe this. But again I am not going to take this for much longer in the dosage I do. CS to me is something you can use in times of need, not as a drug to use everyday. I don't know what else to say. I don't think it's possible that the league of reason forums has debunked 9/11 truth so I am going to leave it at that. It's impossible to debunk what is certain and factual. I never suggested any more conspiracies so I don't know what the fuck you are going on about.

As for Homeopathy I misspoke. I do not practice homeopathy though I have read certain things about it. I practice good diet and exercise with a healthy quarter to half raw diet based on scientific findings with enzymes and minerals. I really do not have much info to offer about homeopathy. But doctors again generally do not know a whole lot about foods and nutrition beyond what they are taught in school. I trust my doctor the few times I go to him. I never said doctor's were bad but nutritionists generally are more helpful for your general health. The body should not need drugs and it certainly should not need them for all the things we have them for these days. Many drugs are proven killers. Pharma drugs kill a lot of people. That isn't debateable. They help people, too. But what people should really be doing is eating healthy and exercising a decent amount.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

As for Wilborn. I don't necessarily disagree with you. My point is that you can prove nothing to the opposite, that CS is harmful and until you do this discussion remains open. I have maintained that I feel there is nothing toxic about it. I believe this. But again I am not going to take this for much longer in the dosage I do. CS to me is something you can use in times of need, not as a drug to use everyday. I don't know what else to say. I don't think it's possible that the league of reason forums has debunked 9/11 truth so I am going to leave it at that. It's impossible to debunk what is certain and factual. I never suggested any more conspiracies so I don't know what the fuck you are going on about.

Sorry, dude. Basic science. You're the one making a claim - that silver is an effective antibiotic - you have to provide the evidence for it. I'll accept that there's a dosage of silver you can take that's not toxic, it's not that far of a stretch for me. However, you have to prove it does what you claim it does. Until you provide that evidence, and it has to be better evidence then what you've shown so far, there is no discussion to be had.

Also, science can indeed debunk what is "certain and factual" when that certainty and those facts turn out to be erroneous. Science is ever humble, never claiming to have definitive and final answers.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Dude, good god you are so full of shit. Everything you posted has nothing to do with anything and has no relevance whatsoever in any of my posts. There is nothing to debunk in my posts. We have went over this a thousand times. There may be some wording that needs fixing. There may be some opinions. I have said anything that I am forcing on anybody else. Again I make no claims for colloidal silver except that I seem to not get colds or colds and flu seem to disappear very fast when I take it.

Silly delusions. Care to list them: I'll be waiting. What are my delusions. What about everything that I post has been debunked. Please enlighten me. 9/11 surely has not been debunked because it still is an ongoing fucking conspiracy kind of like Gulf of Tonkin was before they finally admitted it was all a hoax to get into Vietnam. Not only that but I have directly given you the website where you can learn about 9/11 instead of saying this or that use the search function blah blah. Nobody has debunked 9/11 truth engineers and architects. All their information is based on real and factual evidence. You are going to have a touch fucking time debunking them.

As for AIDS. yeah, you might as well read that whole article at Mind Trek. AIDS has never been shown to be related to HIV. That scientist knows Gallo personally as I have demonstrated. Gallo and his people have direct links to the industry of HIV testing which nets them millions of dollars and yet no conclusive evidence has EVER been posted that shows a link. This is not arguable it is fact.

See folks, here were get the other part of the conspiracy theory mental defect: the absolute certainty of knowledge that other people don't have. It serves the narcissistic part of the delusional mind very well, inflating a person's ego in the absence of any actual achievement or education. There's no proof that colloidal silver has any positive effects when ingested, which means that khronikos knows more than every scientist and doctor in the world. There's tons of evidence against the idiotic and perverse 9-11 conspiracies, which means that the whole world is in on the conspiracy and only brave and courageous souls like khronikos are willing to stand up and reveal the "truth." Everyone knows that HIV causes AIDS, so when khronikos claims that the two things are unrelated there's the underlying claim that khronikos knows more about medicine than the entire world.

Really, we all know that the scientific evidence is not in question, and that khronikos is wrong on all counts. The only interesting thing to discuss is the psychology of conspiracy theorists, the whys and hows of someone consciously turning their back on reality in favor of delusions that ease their inferiority complexes.

 

[khronikos]

Look at this guy. Get up on that pulpit!

There's tons of evidence

WHERE IS IT! WHO MADE IT UP! WHY IS IT REFUTED BY http://www.ae911truth.org/

against the idiotic and perverse 9-11 conspiracies, which means that the whole world is in on the conspiracy and only brave and courageous souls like khronikos are willing to stand up and reveal the "truth."

What the fuck are you on man. Did somebody hurt you as a child? The whole world. This happened in America. An entire two or three fold war on non existent terrorists has been ongoing for almost a decade because of this incident. It has bankrupted America to the point we are now monetizing our debt through the 'federal' reserve. It has been a cruel joke that has debilitated our nation beyond comprehension. It was all for oil or power. Saddam never had WMD's yet that was the reason we went into Iraq. Conspiracy? Uh, no. Fact. We waged an illegal war first based off of 9/11 and then based off of Iraq. Now we are into other countries doing the same thing. Why? because of lies and corruption. What don't you understand about 9/11? You seem to have a problem comprehending clicking on links or learning in general. Here are some of the problems as outlined by over a 1000 industry professionals: WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:

1. Rapid onset of collapse

2. Sounds of explosions at ground floor - a second before the building's destruction

3.Symmetrical "structural failure" -- through the path of greatest resistance -- at free-fall acceleration

4. Imploded, collapsing completely, and landed in its own footprint

5. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds

6. Expert corroboration from the top European Controlled Demolition professional

7. Fore-knowledge of "collapse" by media, NYPD, FDNY

In the the aftermath of WTC7's destruction, strong evidence of demolition using incendary devices was discovered:

8. FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples

9. Several tons of molten metal reported by numerous highly-qualified witnesses

10. Chemical signature of thermite (high tech incendiary) found in solidified molten metal, and dust samples

WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:

1. Slow onset with large visible deformations

2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires)

3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel

4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never collapsed.

Did you read anything on any of those websites because there is a whole shit ton more. Is it just me? How many times do I need to repeat myself? Read the links or seriously do not answer. How is this guy not being modded but I am warned continuously about stepping on people's shoes. If you are going to prove anything than do so. If you are just going to rant with your bullshit than you can do that somewhere else. I have given you legitimate information. Do what thou wilt.

http://www.mind-trek.com/reports/tl09a.htm

Not everybody believes that AIDS has ANYTHING to do with HIV. This guy is credible, seeing has he personally KNOWS GALLO, and Gallo refuses to debate him in public or in private. What he espouses in knowledge. Something you clearly look past on your way to wherever you are going with your crap. I do not stand to know anything of the AIDS HIV specifics. I believe this man because what he has to say sounds very truthful and full of what people like to call honest knowledge. I am not even sure you read the quotes I posted above. It sounds like you just pull shit out of your ass without actually reading anything I post and then expect people to believe you somehow. Why would I be claiming to know firsthand about the HIV non link.

Dr. Duesberg, born in Germany in 1936, earned his Ph.D. in chemistry at the University of Frankfurt, Germany, and is now a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, in the Department of Molecular and Cell Biology. He is one of the foremost virologists in the world. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, elected in 1986 for his pioneering work with retroviruses, including the isolation of the first oncogene and his discovery that influenza viruses readily change by recombination because they contain multiple chromosomes. He was the first to map the genetic structure of retroviruses. He is a pioneer in cancer-gene research.

Dr. Duesberg is also the recipient of a seven-year Outstanding Investigator Grant from the National Institutes of Health, charging him with the mission to "venture into new territory" and "ask creative questions."

On the basis of his experience with retroviruses, Dr. Duesberg has challenged the virus-AIDS hypothesis in the pages of such journals as Cancer Research, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Science, Nature, and Research in Immunology. He has also been interviewed for numerous newspapers, magazines, and radio and television programs for his perspective on modern virus hunting.

So with all do respect, shut the hell up. This guy, let me guess, is going to get ripped apart on league of reason? LOFL.

Again, as for colloidal silver, I am claiming no positive effects on myself except that it seems to kill of colds and flus faster. This could be for a variety of reasons. It is an experiment based off some evidence I have given here that I am trying. It is not something I will be taking for the rest of my life. Get that. Read that again so you don't have to waste space with any more bullshit.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Did you read anything on any of those websites. Is it just me? How many times do I need to repeat myself? Read the links or seriously do not answer. How is this guy not being modded but I am warned continuously about stepping on people's shoes. If you are going to prove anything than do so. If you are just going to rant with your bullshit than you can do that somewhere else. I have given you legitimate information. Do what thou wilt.

http://www.mind-trek.com/reports/tl09a.htm

Not everybody believes that AIDS has ANYTHING to do with HIV. This guy is credible, seeing has he personally KNOWS GALLO, and Gallo refuses to debate him in public or in private.

There is an inherent irony in this. You're telling us to question authority, while at the same time making an appeal to authority. Why should we trust your authority more then predominant authority? Can you give any better reason then innuendo?

Your authority isn't even particularly credible, saying things like this:

"One thing is that homosexuality has become acceptable and highly visible. Certainly in places where they concentrate and gain a lot of confidence, like New York or LA, it becomes more obvious. .... But there is an absolute preference for boys here. [Female] prostitutes have the same number of dates as promiscuous homosexuals, I assume, but they're not getting it [from sexual contact]. There must be something else, something related to that lifestyle. "

This statement has between shown to be untrue and ridiculous. Females prevalence grew sharply after AIDS was recognized. Clearly this guy has an agenda.

Again, as for colloidal silver, I am claiming no positive effects on myself except that it seems to kill of colds and flus faster. This could be for a variety of reasons. It is an experiment based off some evidence I have given here that I am trying.

This is most empathetically NOT an experiment. It's anecdote, worthless as evidence.

 

[khronikos]

http://www.mind-trek.com/reports/tl09a.htm

http://www.duesberg.com/

Oh, he has an agenda but Gallo doesn't?! He has been excommunicated for his findings and beliefs. Gallo, who makes millions off of HIV tests that have NO CONCLUSIVE LINK TO HIV is the savior though. Yet we still do not have any sort of cure but horrendous treatments that kill the patient often faster than they kill the 'virus'.

Dr. Duesberg, born in Germany in 1936, earned his Ph.D. in chemistry at the University of Frankfurt, Germany, and is now a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, in the Department of Molecular and Cell Biology. He is one of the foremost virologists in the world. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, elected in 1986 for his pioneering work with retroviruses, including the isolation of the first oncogene and his discovery that influenza viruses readily change by recombination because they contain multiple chromosomes. He was the first to map the genetic structure of retroviruses. He is a pioneer in cancer-gene research.

Dr. Duesberg is also the recipient of a seven-year Outstanding Investigator Grant from the National Institutes of Health, charging him with the mission to "venture into new territory" and "ask creative questions."

On the basis of his experience with retroviruses, Dr. Duesberg has challenged the virus-AIDS hypothesis in the pages of such journals as Cancer Research, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Science, Nature, and Research in Immunology. He has also been interviewed for numerous newspapers, magazines, and radio and television programs for his perspective on modern virus hunting.

This guy has an agenda. YEAH, he fucking does. IT'S CALLED THE TRUTH! I am sorry but I am done here. I respect what you have to say Wilborn but calling this guy not credible is too fucking much for me to bear. You need to read the entire site. And that goes for all you people. You need to actually read these links before posting random bullshit that is obviously disproven in the links. WHAT THE DOES IT TAKE FOR YOU PEOPLE TO SEE ANY SORT OF LOGICAL REASONING that would in any way pervert the official story?

As for CS JESUS CHRIST! I have already said that as far as humans all there is is anecdotal evidence with CS! Until then the discussion remains open not closed. I have given what I can for CS. I never claimed it was a miracle wonder.

Anyway, this is the letter where he was bribed by the NIH to change his position on AIDS. Gee, who bribes people to change their position? People that are SCARED. http://www.duesberg.com/about/bribepd.html

A bunch of articles about the man himself. http://www.duesberg.com/articles/index.html

Anyway toodles. I'll stop by the AIDS forum I guess.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

Oh, he has an agenda but Gallo doesn't?! He has been excommunicated for his findings and beliefs. Gallo, who makes millions off of HIV tests that have NO CONCLUSIVE LINK TO HIV is the savior though. Yet we still do not have any sort of cure but horrendous treatments that kill the patient often faster than they kill the 'virus'.

Give evidence. Scanning your link quickly gives no evidence but innuendo; if you have some, produce it.

Dr. Duesberg, born in Germany in 1936, earned his Ph.D. in chemistry at the University of Frankfurt, Germany, and is now a professor at the University of California, Berkeley, in the Department of Molecular and Cell Biology. He is one of the foremost virologists in the world. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, elected in 1986 for his pioneering work with retroviruses, including the isolation of the first oncogene and his discovery that influenza viruses readily change by recombination because they contain multiple chromosomes. He was the first to map the genetic structure of retroviruses. He is a pioneer in cancer-gene research.

Dr. Duesberg is also the recipient of a seven-year Outstanding Investigator Grant from the National Institutes of Health, charging him with the mission to "venture into new territory" and "ask creative questions."

On the basis of his experience with retroviruses, Dr. Duesberg has challenged the virus-AIDS hypothesis in the pages of such journals as Cancer Research, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Science, Nature, and Research in Immunology. He has also been interviewed for numerous newspapers, magazines, and radio and television programs for his perspective on modern virus hunting.

Appeal to authority. None of this means his allegations are accurate.

This guy has an agenda. YEAH, he fucking does. IT'S CALLED THE TRUTH! I am sorry but I am done here. I respect what you have to say Wilborn but calling this guy not credible is too fucking much for me to bear. You need to read the entire site. And that goes for all you people. You need to actually read these links before posting random bullshit that is obviously disproven in the links. WHAT THE DOES IT TAKE FOR YOU PEOPLE TO SEE ANY SORT OF LOGICAL REASONING that would in any way pervert the official story?

I'm not reading that entire site. I scanned it and I'm not impressed. Another thing he said is that HIV was not detected in 10 to 20 percent of AIDS cases; which means it WAS found in 80 to 90 percent of cases. Now, if he showed HIV was present in a large number of people who didn't develop AIDS that would be something, but I can't see that he claims that. A 90% correlation is certainly stronger evidence for a causal link then it is against. When asked for a credible alternate mechanism, he can't provide one.

What does it take? EVIDENCE. You're obviously familiar with this site, it shouldn't be that hard for you to pull out some good evidence and make a case. I'm willing to listen but I'm not researching hundreds of pages of something that on simple examination looks like nonsense.

As for CS JESUS CHRIST! I have already said that as far as humans all there is is anecdotal evidence with CS! Until then the discussion remains open not closed. I have given what I can for CS. I never claimed it was a miracle wonder.

There is no discussion until you provide evidence. Anecdotes are not evidence.

 

[khronikos]

Well, you guys don't even have a 9/11 page with any hardcore discussion at all. I did see this though which was very amusing:

In 2001 a group of religiously indoctrinated suicide soldiers infiltrated the United States under assumed identities, creating false lives, all funded by a shadowy billioniare Saudi, with connections to a massive fascistic theocratic underworld. These men trained diligently to hijack, and crash planes into stragetic targets. Each infiltrated Logan Airport seperately and boarded planes, coordinating their attacks perfectly to strike economic and military installations of their enemy, the United States. Their attacks destroyed the World Trade Center, a portion of the Pentagon and killed well over 3,000 people, a massive successful strike against the world's most militarily powerful country using nothing but fanaticism, planning and box cutters.

That sounds so bogus I would not even know how to answer it. It is just pure ridiculous imagination. I personally hope the guy is joking. If he actually researched into NORAD and all the other thousand things that happened that day I don't think you could honest to god make a more laughable story than the one he made. Box cutters. OMG. Some day you people will learn.

Anyway, you are just scanning the website. I have come to realize you guys just believe what you want to. You don't even read the links. You just continue as you were. I don't have the time anymore.

You people are going to have to read and think for yourselves. I am not your mammy. It's not a hundred pages. It's a couple. Can't read. That's your problem. This is discussion. Not khronikos prove everything that ever happened in the world on our great forums so all of us can debunk you with our very own opinions.

Dr. Harvey Bialy is a molecular biologist and scientific editor of the journal Bio Technology. He is also editor of the newsletter Rethinking AIDS. He says:

"I can't find a single virologist who will give me references which show that HIV is the probable cause of AIDS. On an issue as important as this there should be a set of scientific documents somewhere, research papers written by people who are accessible, demonstrating this. But they are not available. If you ask a virologist for that information, you don't get an answer, you get fury." (The Sunday Times, April 26, 1992).

* The hypothesis has been a total failure in terms of producing health benefits.

* Over 150 chimpanzees have been infected with HIV by the National Institutes of Health during the past nine years. All are still healthy.

* "AIDS" is not a new disease; there is in fact no such disease as "AIDS." 25 previously known and unrelated diseases have been conveniently lumped together and redefined as "AIDS."

* In the case of infectious diseases, the "infectious agents multiply exponentially in susceptible hosts until stopped by immunity." The victim becomes ill within a few days or weeks. The "AIDS-defined diseases" do not follow this pattern.

* After infection with HIV, the immune system neutralizes the virus, creating antibodies. The presence of antibodies indicate successful neutralization or immunity. "Once stopped by immunity, conventional viruses and microbes are no longer pathogenic. There is no reason to believe that a neutralized virus can cause a disease five or ten years later. "...low pathogenicity by a neutralized virus has never been experimentally proven. The "AIDS-defined diseases" follow the pattern of cumulative build-up of toxins, "[f]or example, lung cancer and emphysema are 'acquired' only after 10-20 years of smoking, and liver cirrhosis is 'acquired' only after 10-20 years of alcoholism."

* "Despite research efforts that exceed those on all other viruses combined and have generated over 60,000 papers on HIV, it has not been possible to prove that HIV causes AIDS."

* The "AIDS-defined diseases" are all incompatible with the classical criteria of infectious disease. For example, HIV is not present in all AIDS patients - there are several thousand AIDS patients with no HIV. "...AIDS does not meet even one of the classical criteria of infectious disease." (Koch's postulates.)

* "Since on average only 0.1% (1 out of 500 to 3000) of T-cells are ever infected by HIV in AIDS patients, but at least 3% of all T-cells are regenerated during the two days it takes a retrovirus to infect a cell, HIV could never kill enough T-cells to cause immunodeficiency. Thus even if HIV killed every infected T-cell, it could deplete T-cells only at 1/30 of their normal rate of regeneration, let alone activated regeneration. The odds of HIV causing T-cell deficiency would be the same as those of a bicycle rider trying to catch up with a jet airplane."

* "...[T]here are over 40-times more HIV-infected leukocytes in many healthy HIV carriers than in AIDS patients with fatal AIDS."

* "...[T]here is no trace of HIV in any Kaposi's sarcomas and there is no HIV in neurons of patients with dementia, because of the generic inability of retroviruses to infect nondividing cells like neurons."

* All the "AIDS-defined diseases" occur in the absence of HIV. This is very strong evidence that something other than HIV causes them, and that the presence or absence of HIV is irrelevant to these diseases.

* "Leading AIDS researchers acknowledge that correlations are the only support for the virus-AIDS hypothesis." But correlation does not prove causation. The fact that the "AIDS-defined diseases" occur in the absence of HIV, and HIV occurs in the absence of the "AIDS-defined diseases," strongly suggest that the correlation is irrelevant.

* In fact, the alleged correlation with HIV is not a correlation with HIV at all, but with HIV antibodies, the presence of which indicates that the immune system has successfully neutralized the HIV. "Natural antiviral antibodies, or vaccination, against HIV - which completely neutralize HIV to virtually undetectable levels - are consistently diagnosed in AIDS patients with the 'AIDS test.'"

* No exceptions have so far been found in virology to the rule that the presence of antibodies indicates that the virus has been neutralized and rendered harmless.

* In practically every human cell there are between 100 and 150 chronically latent human retroviruses and parasites. None of these "are fatal and nearly all are harmless to a normal immune system."

* If a virus is to be blamed for the "AIDS-defined diseases," cytomegalovirus is a better candidate - "...100% of AIDS patients within certain cohorts, not just 50% as with HIV, were shown to have antibodies against or acute infections of, cytomegalovirus."

* The HIV virus has existed in America for a long time - maybe centuries or longer. "Ever since antibodies against HIV were first detected by the 'AIDS test' in 1985, the number of antibody-positive Americans has been fixed at a constant population of 1 million, or 0.4%." This is an infallible indication that HIV is not new and has been around for a long time. [HIV has been found in frozen blood samples dating back to at least 1959.]

* Clinical studies indicate that transmission of AIDS occurs in the order of once in every 1000 sexual contacts. No virus could survive if it depended on such inefficient transmission. Instead, transmission from mother to child is estimated to occur 13-50% of the time. [Rock Hudson's lover, Marc Christian, survived an estimated 600 unprotected sexual encounters with the infected Hudson without contracting HIV or any illness.]

* Generally, proponents of the virus-AIDS hypothesis claim that HIV attacks the immune system, causing immunodeficiency, which leaves the body more or less helpless against AIDS disease. "However, immunodeficiency is not a common denominator of all AIDS diseases. About 38% of all AIDS diseases, i.e. dementia, wasting disease, Kaposi's sarcoma and lymphoma are neither caused by, nor necessarily associated with, immunodeficiency."

* Generally, proponents of the virus-AIDS hypothesis claim that HIV kills T-cells. However, there is no evidence for this assumption. "The hallmark of retrovirus replication is to convert the viral RNA into DNA and to deliberately integrate this DNA as a parasite gene into the cellular DNA. This process of integration depends on mitosis [cell division] to succeed, rather than on cell death." In other words, for HIV to survive, the cells it infects have to survive. "HIV, like all other retroviruses, does not specifically infect T-cells. It also infects monocytes, epithelial cells, B-cells, glial cells and macrophages, etc. and none of these are killed by HIV."

* Some proponents of the virus-AIDS hypothesis claim that HIV is so deadly because it mutates endlessly into new variations, with which the immune system can't "catch up." "...[T]here is no precedent for an immune system that has been able to neutralize a virus completely and is then unable to catch up with an occasional subsequent mutation. If viruses in general could evade the immune system by mutation, the immune system would be a useless burden to the host... [A]ntigenically new variants of HIV have never been observed in American and European AIDS patients..."

* Some proponents of the virus-AIDS hypothesis claim that HIV changes infected cells so they export protein toxins, causing diseases like Kaposi's sarcoma and dementia. "By contrast, all other known bacterial, animal and human viruses, including retroviruses, are only able to kill those cells they infect, because viruses are manufactured inside cells and would not benefit from proteins released to uninfected cells."

* Most proponents of the virus-AIDS hypothesis claim that HIV is special and unique among retroviruses, and does all kinds of mysterious things no other retroviruses can do. [To me this seems similar to the belief that just because some humans call themselves "government," therefore they acquire magical powers to perform miracles. AIDS researchers seem to believe that just because they call a particular virus "HIV," therefore it acquires magical powers to wreak all kinds of havoc.] "Despite its presumed unique properties HIV has the same genetic complexity, i.e. 9000 nucleotides, and the same genetic structure as all other retroviruses ...ased on the structure, information and function of its RNA, HIV is a profoundly conventional retrovirus."

* Ryan White was a hemophiliac who died from unstoppable internal bleeding. He took AZT which probably hastened his death. There is no evidence that he died from HIV.

* Kimberley Bergalis took AZT "until she died in December 1991 with weight loss (15 kg), hair loss, uncontrollable candidiasis, anemia and muscle atrophy (requiring a wheelchair) - the symptoms of chronic AZT toxicity... [T]he assumption that Bergalis died from HIV is pure speculation."

Q: So if a person dies of a slim disease and they are not HIV-positive, they're said to have died of slim disease; and if they die HIV positive they're said to have died of AIDS?
Duesberg: Yes.

Q: So is this a case of having a theory and making the facts fit the theory?
Duesberg: That is exactly what is happening.

Q: Doesn't sound too scientific to me.
Duesberg: Yes, it's a lot of wishful thinking in this case more than ever. We are paying for it dearly; we are paying the high price for AIDS research, and we get no benefits whatsoever, in terms of public health. Nobody is going to be saved; the spread of AIDS is not going to be predicted, it's totally wrongly predicted; we don't have a vaccine to stop it, we don't know how to deal with it. We don't practice science, but wishful thinking.

Q: Wow. Are there people who are HIV-positive that have lived a long time?
Duesberg: Oh, yeah. There are numerous people. There are a million Americans HIV positive ever since we had the test. That's now for eight years. So most of them are still alive; they have lived at least eight years. They are the so-called long-term survivors. You can only say for sure that it's for eight or ten years, but it may be for as many years as these people would have lived anyway. All of those are people who have not taken any drugs. In Africa, as I said, the virus is endemic for a long time in millions of healthy people. As I pointed out earlier, if a virus, as HIV, is as constant and fixed to a constant population as this one, it has to have been in the population for a very, very long time. People probably can live a total full life with that virus like with any other latent retrovirus.

Q: You say that you are willing to be injected with HIV if you can get nation-wide coverage, but the scientists say it can take ten years or more to develop AIDS. Would this be a useful demonstration?
Duesberg: Its use would be quite limited. You're absolutely right; I don't know what they would say ten years from now.

Q: You could live to be ninety, and be hit by a train; and they'd say: Duesberg hit by train; died of AIDS!
Duesberg: Exactly right! They take anything that happens to anybody with antibodies to HIV: look that's AIDS!

Q: So there are big bucks involved?
Duesberg: There are strong commercial interests on the part of many of these biotechnology companies who are doing AIDS tests and antibody tests and making AZT, and are making hundreds of millions of dollars on that. There are further interests on the part of the news media. The news media have all bought into the story; it was a windfall for them to sell a weekly story on anal intercourse and drug injection and viruses and how horrible it is and how many more people are going to die. It makes a cheap and easy story that everybody wants to read, rather than for a science writer having to go to a laboratory and have to understand about the death gene, that you mentioned, (which is probably nonsense to begin with) and how that works and why that works and to sell it to a public that just gets another boring science story. But, if you touch it up with gay bath-house anecdotes and anal intercourse and lots of sexual contacts, then it's juicy reading and everybody gets excited; so the newspapers also love it.

Q: What about the government, they're the ones who approved AZT, and I heard that it was not under the most rigorous scientific testing. The gay people were protesting outside that place and they just pushed it right through.
Duesberg: That's unfortunately the case. An infectious cause, rather than drugs was found, because otherwise they would be blamed for their lifestyle. I think they would be much better off facing the truth, and saving many more lives. But they would then lose the support and the sympathy of the majority of the heterosexuals, who would say, if you kill yourself with drugs and screwing around in bath houses, that's none of my business, but you do it to yourself; it's your problem.

Q: What do you think would happen if all this came out? Who would lose?
Duesberg: The medical establishment would lose seriously. It would lose face a lot. It would be a serious thing for them, because so many have advanced this theory and acted accordingly. They would have to say, I'm sorry we got it wrong; we have to step back, and somebody else has to find the right direction. It would be a serious embarrassment in the first place. A lot of people would have to be replaced, and there would be many other serious consequences. The scientists would have to step back. The law suits would come up, particularly about AZT poisoning. Different tests would be necessary. If they do that in a government, they elect a different president or have a different general and a different ideological campaign.

First article read it: http://www.duesberg.com/articles/index.html

This man was bribed by the NIH to shut up and conform. To me there need be no more evidence.

Read the whole SPIN article. Can't do it. Your problem.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Okay... so what we have here... Someone who takes seriously the claims of:
- Colloidal Silver proponents
- 9/11 Truthers
- AIDS denialists
and perhaps homeopathy.

A friend of mine wants to know if you believe in vampires and werewolves.

Well, you guys don't even have a 9/11 page with any hardcore discussion at all.

Because nobody really takes these crackpot theories seriously. But you're invited to make your own thread - that's why we have the "Conspiracy Theories" forums.