Colloidal Silver

[Niocan]

(Edit: Changed to reflect current theory)Statement: Colloidal Silver induces enough oxidative damage to kill microbes and not your own cells whilst taken correctly***
Implication: Very broad-spectrum anti-viral,fungal,bacterial,pathogenic solutions can be made very easily for very low amounts of money/energy.

Edit: Production Method is updated, as follows:
27-36v DC source going through a current limiter (Limit to .5 to 1mA) with optional polarity switch between the 99.9%+ silver electrodes. Heating the water isn't needed, adding the last of a similarly made batch helps get it started, and if there's too much silver collecting on the electrodes add a magnetic stirrer.
*** Correctly implies it's silver ions in water, in concentration ranges of 5-20ppm, taken when needed or lower amounts for daily intake.

Please look through the thread first, many questions have been addressed that you might have. Edit happened when discussion was at page 5.
______________________
Hello I'm here to prove to you that over-rationalization is just as bad as the dogmatic faith found in the tainted religions we have today. How? By letting you prove yourself wrong.
You've no doubt heard of Colloidal Silver and the plethora of marketers claiming this that and everything in between while also assuring you that theirs is the best... This is nothing but the side effect of Corporations working in environments that restrict what can be said and the research that goes along with it.

Big business 'fallacy', I know, but this is simply self survival in a market place.

First off, there are many ways to make it but the easiest and most effective (Aside from actual nano-impregnation of silver into foams that restrict its particle size) is Low Voltage Electrolysis. We'll only be dealing with this method as it's the most wide spread.

The main components and reasons are:

Water - *Distilled* is by far the best and should be the only kind used. The impurities in tap and other water sources will create their respected compounds as the silver is added to the solution (silver chloride, Silver nitrate, etc).
Silver - 99.9%+ is required, though it can be in any form you want to use. Be sure of its purity! We don't want to make colloidal nickel or copper...
Power - ~30v is needed, in the main schematic three 9v batteries are used in series.

Here's a link to the schematic [Right side, left is the pulser though you only need one 9v if you can make it]
(As a side note for this thread I'm only concerned with the CS generator, please keep your comments as such.)
This is Bob Beck's device, not to be confused with anything Clark-related, and if you wish all the info can be found in his PDF. All of which is free, all of which is very simple to build and use.


So what did I do with this information? I tested it, and I'm here to inform others so they too can test it out. Here's the basic process:
Fill glass container with distilled water, connect circuit, insert silver electrodes, and wait X time.

Sounds simple? It is Though there's a few factors that need to be addressed:

Conductivity - Because we're using distilled water the initial conductivity is extremely low and will lead to a large ramp-up time for production. To increase this we can do a few things: (Of which will seem pretty basic to a chemist =p)
---Add ~1/5 of the previous batch to the current batch [Replacing the unneeded salt which will only cause silver compounds to form].
[Edit: Not really needed with updated method] ---Increase the temperature to just under boiling and keep it on a constant heat source (Like the mini crock-pot for dips).
[Edit: Not really needed with updated method] ---Movement of some kind, either by a magnetic stirrer or by a cheap aquarium air pump.
---Constant Current is needed (and solved by the light in series from the schematic). It seems as though 1mA / square inch of silver is about right, though I just use the light. This is what solves the agglomeration issue and will extent how long batches need to be made.

Time - Is tricky, because in this regard I mean the time it takes before agglomeration sets in and the solution starts turning 'golden yellow' which is *not* what we want [For reasons of particle size; smaller = better]. There really isn't any set time, and this is one area in which you'll have to vary depending on the phase of the moon...that's right, the moon.. I kid you not, the new and full moon are the best times to make CS, the reasons for which escape me at the moment but if you're having problems with your solution turning yellow all the time try it then.


So, after all that I just want you to know one thing: I'm doing this to help you (Viewing audience of LoR) prove CS right or wrong. These are the info and tips that I've applied while learning to make the best CS I can, and I'll be here to answer any questions from individuals trying to replicate this work to verify it.

Unless you forget everything I've said here, added salt in tap water and applied it just before suntanning (Silver is photo-voltaic) YOU WILL NOT TURN BLUE, EVER, PLEASE USE COMMON SENSE BUT REST ASSURED IT'S A FALLACY.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Statement: Colloidal Silver inhibits the oxygen producing enzyme in simple celled microbes.
Implication: Very broad-spectrum anti-viral,fungal,bacterial,pathogenic solutions can be made very easily for very low amounts of money/energy.

First of all this is not the right place to post this. If you are making a scientific claim, make a decent work and send it for peer-review, you do not go around random skeptical forums to make your case, if for any strange reason you are successful to pass criticism the best you could have a achieve is to demonstrate someone else's inability to debunk you and never that any of your claims are right.

Hello I'm here to prove to you that over-rationalization is just as bad as the dogmatic faith found in the tainted religions we have today. How? By letting you prove yourself wrong.

It is very presumptuous and narcissistic to think that you are the first guy with an uneducated guess ever to come on to this forum and convince anyyone that whatever pseudo-science you are trying to advertise isn't bunk. And it is even downright stupid to say that being reasonable is at the same level as being superstitious, and what the hell do you call "over-rationalization" is there even such a thing? What are you essentially promoting that we simply gave up our brains. If you want something done the best you can you have to use the best information available to you, and giving up reason for hard gullibility in what you say is quite the opposite of that.
So you basically start of the argument by going down in flames, which makes me hard to believe that you can come up with anything reasonable.

Here's a link to the schematic [Right side, left is the pulser though you only need one 9v if you can make it]
(As a side note for this thread I'm only concerned with the CS generator, please keep your comments as such.)
This is Bob Beck's device, not to be confused with anything Clark-related, and if you wish all the info can be found in his PDF. All of which is free, all of which is very simple to build and use.

I seriously have better things to do with my time then to run around after a wild goose chase. A especially I have better uses to my money (some of those pieces are not quite cheap) then to go around try whatever crazy experiment some crackpot came up with.
If you were expecting any positive feedback or sympathy for this, you can get disillusioned right now. As far as I'm concern your machine could even work perfectly the way you say it does that I don't give a damn, you have simply failed to mention on how any of this is the right place to make any of those claims and expects us to give you any street creed for that.

 

[Niocan]

First of all this is not the right place to post this. If you are making a scientific claim, make a decent work and send it for peer-review, you do not go around random skeptical forums to make your case, if for any strange reason you are successful to pass criticism the best you could have a achieve is to demonstrate someone else's inability to debunk you and never that any of your claims are right.

Well if there was any message you missed from what I said it's that this is done so you can prove it yourself. I've already done that for myself, but it seems as most things on here to discourage endless regression into fields one must put forth a simple experiment to do that's verifiable. If one can prove these claims, you'll call them out at first, but what will happen when no one can prove them wrong? I can assure you that this isn't my ego talking or anything, I'm just placing merit on the experiment for it to be taken on its on accord.

It is very presumptuous and narcissistic to think that you are the first guy with an uneducated guess ever to come on to this forum and convince anyyone that whatever pseudo-science you are trying to advertise isn't bunk.

Indeed it is ^.^ Until you find out for yourself that it works, at which point what I've said here will make more sense.

And it is even downright stupid to say that being reasonable is at the same level as being superstitious, and what the hell do you call "over-rationalization" is there even such a thing?

Yes, it's the ability to build around you false internally-consistent walls blocking the further learning of what's said. You assume I'm wrong in the fullest detail and argue against that, without giving credence to anything I've said.

What are you essentially promoting that we simply gave up our brains. If you want something done the best you can you have to use the best information available to you, and giving up reason for hard gullibility in what you say is quite the opposite of that.

Um, no. Infact you should listen to your own teachings... What I have here is a collected and summarized work dealing with the production of CS so YOU CAN PROVE IT YOURSELF. I did all the work for you, just apply it and learn what you can from it (Works or not).

I seriously have better things to do with my time then to run around after a wild goose chase. A especially I have better uses to my money (some of those pieces are not quite cheap) then to go around try whatever crazy experiment some crackpot came up with.

You have better things to do then match yourself up with what you belief is a false claim and to test it? (theoretically most the time, in this case we have the experiment) You just might be in the wrong forums kiddo . Also, it's three 9v batteries a few alligator clips and some silver. For the 'perfect batch' you'll need the bubbler at least, but I simply expected for those who want to prove this right/wrong that they'll do so knowing they can't manifest them out of thin air >.>

If you were expecting any positive feedback or sympathy for this, you can get disillusioned right now. As far as I'm concern your machine could even work perfectly the way you say it does that I don't give a damn, you have simply failed to mention on how any of this is the right place to make any of those claims and expects us to give you any street creed for that.

I have stated a claim, backed it up with an experiment that I've done and proved correct myself, so you don't have to take my work for it and you can test it yourself.

I'm telling you to be a scientist, so live up to it.

 

[scalyblue]

There's no big conspiracy against people knowing about the antiseptic effects of colloidal silver. The antiseptic effects are a little less than rubbing alcohol but they are there, iirc, enough for them to be incorporated into commercial products.

What is a bunch of idiocy is when it's touted as this super uber secret technology that the man is trying to suppress; I'd say that you'd be better off using peroxide and neosporin than relying on colloidal silver as an antiseptic, because while it is an antiseptic it's not a very good one.

edit -- Let me clarify "not a very good one" with "almost completely ineffective unless you're sterilizing water" and "A little less than rubbing alcohol" with "Never proven to work in-vivio but with a sound concept behind it, where it can't hurt anything aside from your wallet"

Another edit- Except for the Argyria, which I really didn't know about until just now. Wow, the things you learn.

 

[Niocan]

There's no big conspiracy against people knowing about the antiseptic effects of colloidal silver. The antiseptic effects are a little less than rubbing alcohol but they are there, iirc, enough for them to be incorporated into commercial products.

I'm referring to the internal antiseptic (shorthand) properties of silver suspended in water. Check my statement, and the implication of which is being a cure for a lot of illnesses we have now that are caused by microbe infections.

Edit: I get what you're saying, don't worry. I'm just being a little stubborn here to defend my point until someone else can claim the same

Edit2: I have to also say that while you can go buy CS products to test them, it's far cheaper to build your own little setup that'll last forever... Which is a very good thing when you prove this to be true yourself

Edit3
Yes, the infamous blue man syndrome lol. The last sentence of my first post should go over what he did wrong and what you will never do because of a thing called common sense!

 

[scalyblue]

I'm referring to the internal antiseptic (shorthand) properties of silver suspended in water. Check my statement, and the implication of which is being a cure for a lot of illnesses we have now that are caused by microbe infections.

Rebuttal
http://nccam.nih.gov/health/silver/#science

Claims made about the effectiveness of colloidal silver products for numerous diseases are unsupported scientifically

There is a lack of evidence for effectiveness and a risk for serious side effects from colloidal silver products. The FDA does not consider colloidal silver to be safe or effective for treating any disease or condition.

 

[Niocan]

Well I have to straight up say that the FDA's warning about it's toxicology is about as bad as the DEA's misinformation about Cannabis. I've been using the CS I've made almost daily, including spraying it on my skin in excess, and have only had positive effects from it.
I'm not blue This claim is made but if you understand how the body reacts to toxins (The skin is the last thing used to expel wastes) and just how he made it; He was simply having a cosmetic reaction to the silver *compounds* (Formed while making it in tap water, impurities etc) that his kidneys couldn't expel fast enough.

With this understanding, the purely cosmetic effect is reversible through chelation.

Which leads us with.... Nothing bad whatsoever. Though I hate wording things in absolutes, so it's as harmless as Cannabis

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

1. You have failed to grasp reality. This is not the place to prove a scientific point, there is a per review process to do that, Not here, science is not done by going to random people and convince him.

2. If I had to make an experiment to debunk every single crackpot out there I would go bankrupt. Especially when I can dismiss by lack of coherent content or content for that matter (like this one). Or did you think that I failed to notice that you have never made a point?

3. I have my doubts that you have done the experiment yourself. Because if you did have done the experiment correctly, then you would be able to document it.
That documented would contain an explaining mechanism or hypothesis, it would contain a prediction of the expected results according to your hypothesis or mechanics, it would have a protocol, it would have contained a listing of experimental results (preferentially quantitative), and it would have finally a summary on how the experiment hold up to the prediction/model/hypothesis and it would have a conclusion and possibly a comment on what could be done better on future attempts.
And then you would be able to provide me with that document and I would be reading it and judge on what you actually did.
But you don't have any of this do you? You probably don't even know how to build such a report. You even admitted yourself that you have absolutely no idea of why it should work (i.e. failed step 1).
You are a presumptuous uneducated bloke that somehow thinks that you are the first scientific illiterate in the entire history of the world to have some great scientific insight that somehow has eluded all the top professionals in the area.

Again, if you want someone to validate your experiment, you do the actual experiment, document it correctly and submit it for peer-review. This is not the place to give you any credit.

 

[Niocan]

I'm not looking to prove this idea to the world; I'm not looking to snare people into false hopes; I'm not trying in any degree to hide or falsify anything.

My point is very clear: Colloidal Silver is a very powerful/broad-spectrum antimicrobial (Shorthand, see implications in first post) agent that stimulates the growth of new cells.

Reality, my confused friend, says (For me) that CS:
Kills the odor-causing bacteria in the armpits (I use it as a deodorant, and work out every day).
Stops the fermentation of milk (The two cups that had CS instead of distilled water had milk that tasted the same after leaving them out for 2 weeks while the water one was a floating brick of smelltastic death).
Cures pink eye almost instantly.
Three cases of upper-respiratory infection (Oral dose, also varied between cases), cured over night each time with varied 'start dates' of getting sick.
Acne.
Clears up ear infections, both human and animal.
Fixed my cat's back leg, though I'm not sure what was wrong his jumping has improved *greatly*. Which is fun because happy cats = happy owners.

These are all just personal experiences, and I've known from the beginning that they mean nothing to anyone here because you can make this and test is just as I have.

Sorry, but I don't feel the need to go through so much work to prove to myself that it's working (Documentation). This isn't an error of mine, but of yours in regards to over-skepticism. I was almost the same way before I got my hands on it to tinker around.

TEST. IT. FOR. YOURSELF.
This is the cheapest method, and I don't want anyone going out to buy this stuff because it's so damned easy to make.

 

[darthrender2010]

TEST. IT. FOR. YOURSELF.
This is the cheapest method, and I don't want anyone going out to buy this stuff because it's so damned easy to make.

You're missing the point... no one here is going to buy the stuff in the first place. There are much better and safer methods to kill microbes than silver.

 

[Niocan]

You're missing the point... no one here is going to buy the stuff in the first place. There are much better and safer methods to kill microbes than silver.

There isn't any. What's better and safer then elemental Silver in very small particle sizes? Apparently nothing, seeing as how you can bath a baby in CS to get rid of his antibiotic resistant 'super bug'. (Hypothetically speaking, to show its complete lack of toxicology)

But you'll never believe me until you see it; Which is kinda the point of purposing a very cheap way of making this stuff to, you know, TEST.

 

[darthrender2010]

There isn't any. What's better and safer then elemental Silver in very small particle sizes?

Rubbing Alcohol for one

Here's what a simple google search revealed for silver poisoning:

Silver Metal Poising Toxicity Symptomology

Anti Psoric and possibly anti-sycotic

*

Direct effect on cartilages
*

Direct effect on nerves and nerve sheaths
*

Effects the brain/nervous system over time
o

gradually softens tissues
o

targets "intellectual" sections of the brain
o

Slight changes to voluntary systems ( undefined )
o

May affect reasoning abilities
+

Physical symptoms of neck and back pain, and tearing pain throughout body
+

Mental fatigue and restlessness with vertigo


Symptoms masked by coffee/caffeine intake


Symptoms temporarily relieved by exercise


Cold weather increases pain from Rheumatism


Increased joint pain


knotting of cartilage


Effects left testes and right ovaries ( hardening )


Mental and emotional excitement to the point of rage


Experience of shock sensations in the limbs upon going to sleep


Skin irritation, itching sensation that cannot be relieved


Painful tension in the throat


Gray mucus from throat and sinuses


Heart Palpitations while lying on the back


yeah... completely safe

 

[darthrender2010]

But you'll never believe me until you see it; Which is kinda the point of purposing a very cheap way of making this stuff to, you know, TEST.

No, I'll never believe you, I'll look at the evidence and determine what the effects will be. Seeing as intake could be poisonous, there are more efficient alternatives, and silver costs a bunch of money I'm not even willing to look at any evidence you could bring because it isn't worth it even if it does work.

 

[Niocan]

Why yes, that is the severe metallic silver reactions that used to occur as silver was literally scrapped off the coins into a solution. What I'm talking about making (Low voltage electrolysis) is *colloidal* silver, specifically regarding that silver ions stay in suspension via Brownian motion. Concentrations of ~10-20ppm, which is extremely low in comparison (both for particle size and the amount in the solution) to older techniques of making it.

Technology improves, huzzah.

Edit: The best evidence is in your own hands, and silver wire is ~30$ for what will last a lifetime of producing silver. Intake is never poisonous if you don't make it so. The solutions made with said setup will give you everything CS has to offer, in your own home, for the cost of the distilled water...

 

[darthrender2010]

Why yes, that is the severe metallic silver reactions that used to occur as silver was literally scrapped off the coins into a solution. What I'm talking about making (Low voltage electrolysis) is *colloidal* silver, specifically regarding that silver ions stay in suspension via Brownian motion. Concentrations of ~10-20ppm, which is extremely low in comparison (both for particle size and the amount in the solution) to older techniques of making it.

Those were FROM colloidal silver dumbass.... here's the link if you don't believe me
http://www.silvermedicine.org/safety2.html

Technology improves, huzzah.

yeah... no

Edit: The best evidence is in your own hands, and silver wire is ~30$ for what will last a lifetime of producing silver. Intake is never poisonous if you don't make it so. The solutions made with said setup will give you everything CS has to offer, in your own home, for the cost of the distilled water...

Why should I spend my money on something that for all intensive purposes is the same as rubbing alcohol or an anti-biotic? Why should I believe you that this contraption even works? the best evidence isn't in my own hands because I'm not going to run trials on myself to test your method of harvesting CS. There's no reason to try it, and I'm not going to try it on your word.

 

[Niocan]

Those were FROM colloidal silver dumbass.... here's the link if you don't believe me
http://www.silvermedicine.org/safety2.html

See:

This document explores silver metal toxicity and silver poisoning. Much of the included information was acquired from "old style" materia medicas. None of the information included in this document is directly or even closely related to isolated colloidal silver as we know it today. We include this information only for reference."

So, I honestly don't see your point. I googled that very page when you mentioned that, read the thing just as you did, and managed to find out the fallacy of your own reading.

Why should I spend my money on something that for all intensive purposes is the same as rubbing alcohol or an anti-biotic? Why should I believe you that this contraption even works? the best evidence isn't in my own hands because I'm not going to run trials on myself to test your method of harvesting CS. There's no reason to try it, and I'm not going to try it on your word.

Because you can't drink rubbing alcohol to cure a respiratory infection?
The 'contraption' is a simple circuit for electrolysis.
The first thing I did, after making sure how I made it was correct a few times, was to test it on myself... In great excess.
I DON'T WANT YOU TO TRY IT ON MY WORD ALONE, that's why I set up that whole damned post about making it yourself to test around the house (or wherever you wish to test it).

Your egotism is annoying, please stop.

 

[darthrender2010]

The 'contraption' is a simple circuit for electrolysis.
The first thing I did, after making sure how I made it was correct a few times, was to test it on myself... In great excess.
I DON'T WANT YOU TO TRY IT ON MY WORD ALONE, that's why I set up that whole damned post about making it yourself to test around the house

You're an idiot... I'm done

gutte nacht

 

[Niocan]

You're done? That was an attempt? You've been the only one to bring such misinformation to this thread..
At least you can say "I'll wait until someone else does it".

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

I think you still didn't get.
I'm not even criticizing the effectiveness of what you are actually claim, I have given you that from the start.
The point is that you are trying to convince everyone else with your anecdotal "experiment", if you want to show that it has any merit, you have to do it the right way.
It is not going to be a crapy experiment from someone that doesn't even know what he is doing that is going to convince me or anyone else.
This sort of things have to be done by someone who actually knows what he is doing, specially some one that can notice related effects like metallic poisoning for instance (so he can guarantee if it is harmless or not or if it does what it is claimed to be doing). Even if it was doing exactly what you are claiming to do, you get no credit because you cannot show it in a coherent way.
And certainly asking some random person to do some experiment in order to give you a positive note, is not going to give you any credit for it because that random person doesn't know what he is doing either.

This is exactly the sort of way that many crazy pseudo-scientist start their self-deluded "experiments", they don't know what are they doing but because the experiment feels successful they think they got something important when in fact they got jack.

 

[scalyblue]

Oh, btw I'm looking at your schematic...I'm no uber electrical engineer here, but it looks like a bunch of amplifiers, capacitors, resistors and LEDs that really wouldn't' do anything other than convert voltage to heat. I mean, heck, one of those amplifiers isn't even wired to ground or voltage, just the inputs; and heck, you're using both the inverse and the non inverse inputs! And why would you put a 100 OHM potentiometer's output straight into an 800ohm resistor? Why not just use a bigger potentiometer? And what's the point of hooking the in sides of 2 zener diodes together, that wouldn't do anything? And the LED has a capacitor going straight to its input, that would be a pretty substandard battery indicator...

Also when it says 3.5mm phone jack, does it mean an RJ4? an RJ5? An RJ11? I don't feel like measuring my phone jacks, and having the actual component name would be nice.



Let's say that it actually functions as stated on the schematic page..

The third section is a current--limited 27 Volts DC output from a separate RCA (or 2.5mm) jack for rapid generation of excellent ionic/colloidal silver in water. A three minute cycle in 8 Oz. of room--temperature water makes a ~3-5 PPM concentration.

So you basically end up with water with the same concentration of silver that you get from chlorine in your tap water. Way to go. Even if silver was a super antiseptic as good as bleach, you've essentially made tap water.