Colloidal Silver

[zeus19]

scalyblue
It is very interesting how you completely tap danced around ignore the Research and Trials by the Bringham Young University. The link I choose is one of many, I am still trying to find the actual BYU Documents to confirm the claims are real..

As for the pewter, if can can provide evidence of pewter being used by Chinese Emporers I would be very interested to see it. and no I can't read chinese.

As for finding silver in rivers that might keep you happy. The place I found I am keeping to myself because it is a green fields site and a good place for research. The key to finding possible rivers is to find Gold mining areas which also produced Silver and or Platium. Many silver mines where also lead and zinc mines. Which have to be avoided. I have a couple references to sliver in rivers and streams. I believe the references in EPA documents was based on survery done on the upper reaches of the Colorado. There is number of water quality studies on the net. I found one done by a swiss company that had the same levels of silver in the Rhine river as the EPA results.

I have also found reference to a water quality study done on the rivers around Bathurst in NSW Australia which has similiar levels of silver. I believe that on the surveey included Summer Hill Creek and Lewes Ponds Creek.

As for the blood pressure side effect. Prior to being hospitalised I had border line high blood pressure. Basically I gave up a high pressure job after my doctor told me get a new job. He had me hooked up to a 24 monitoring machine for week to see if I needed to have blood pressure medication It was marginal at 140/80. After that I got my own machine to monitor it. For some ten years my blood pressure was around that level on average. When I got sick it did go up till i recovered.

When I got the infection it went through the roof 190/110 the doctors had confined to bed and on blood pressure medication to bring it down. Very quickly it was brough done to safe levels. When they told that I might be going to loss my it went backup again.

That is when I started taking colloodal silver and within a week my blood pressure had dropped to 100/60. They dropped the blood pressure medication and it still hasn't changed. Since then I check my blood pressure on a regular basis. And apart from a well built six foot blonde in a mini skirt it is still low.

 

[c0nc0rdance]

*Theme music plays*
It's time to play the live version of "Spot the Fallacy"!

1. "The link I choose is one of many, I am still trying to find the actual BYU Documents to confirm the claims are real.."
-- Selective acceptance of evidence. What about the dozens of papers that specifically disagree with you? Are you ignoring them?

2. "As for the pewter, if can can provide evidence of pewter being used by Chinese Emporers I would be very interested to see it. and no I can't read chinese."
-- This one is called shifting the burden of proof. People are too lazy to do their own research. Wikipedia reports that pewter was found in a sealed Egyptian tomb from 1450 BC, and elsewhere in the bronze age when alloying was first discovered.

3. "I found one done by a swiss company that had the same levels of silver in the Rhine river as the EPA results."
-- This whole argument has become a red herring. The presence of silver at one site along a river is not relevant to the argument. It also qualifies as an ad hoc rationalization, since you offer no study of health effects.

4. "That is when I started taking colloodal silver and within a week my blood pressure had dropped to 100/60."
-- Here's the 'cum hoc ergo propter hoc' (correlation) fallacy that pseudoscience is based on. 'Every time I wash the car, it rains' kind of thinking. While taking silver and your blood pressure dropping may have occurred in the same time period, that does not imply causation. Your anecdote is heavily colored by selective recall.

Thanks for playing "Spot the Fallacy" live version!

Till next time...
*Theme music plays*

 

[scalyblue]

You've given me no links to any research.

That's good, but what about the Japanese I wrote in my post? I mean, you've been to Chinese museums and you seem to be --snicker-- intelligent, so you don't notice any difference or even bothered to check? Shows me that you are really ignoring everything that I'm saying and glossing it over, doesn't it?

It is very interesting how you completely tap danced around ignore the Research and Trials by the Bringham Young University. The link I choose is one of many, I am still trying to find the actual BYU Documents to confirm the claims are real..

I didn't tapdance. If you're talking about the undocumented, anecdotal research done by "Daryl Tichy" whose life's achievement seems to be patenting a process by which an ill defined liquid can be mixed with hydrogen peroxide to produce a surface antiseptic as effective as hydrogen peroxide.

He never published a single paper and aside from the fact that he was a member of the administrative staff (read--not a scientist)at the bringham young university who went to a newspaper and claimed that he cured aids and parvo in a dog. (A dog, meaning one dog) He has never been able to furnish evidence of his claims, nor has he published in any peer reviewed journals. That hasn't stopped him from whoring himself out to anybody who will listen to his idiocy, like you.

There are no BYU documents. The only thing you will ever find is a snippet in a small utah newspaper called the herald.

A few things here. There is no medical reason to put somebody on an APBM for a blood pressure of 140/80, unless the doctor suspects that that person is so nervous around doctors that he can't get a good reason. Not only that, if you were on an APBM in a realistic situation, you would have been required to take notes of everything that you're doing during the monitoring period.

Blood pressure is measured by noting the amount of displacement in a column of mercury in relation to a very unique type of sound in the restricted artery. APBMs use a microphone and a logic board to determine that sound, and if the sound your arteries make is not compliaint, an APBM will get an incorrect reading.

If your blood pressure is really100/60, go to a hospital. That's borderline hypotension, and it can be a precursor to circulation problems in your extremeties and lightheadedness when changing positions like standing up.

Furthermore, I didn't ask you if you believed that colloidal silver solved your blood pressure issues (it didn't) I am asked you by what method did it reduce your blood pressure. Is it a calcium uptake inhibitor? Is it an ACE inhibitor? Is it an analgestic? And what medications did they have you on for blood pressure anyway? Tell me the names of the formularies and the dosages.

Tell me how your reduction in blood pressure can't be attributed to another factor, such as your change in occupation, a change in lifestyle, a placebo effect from the crap you're drinking.

As far as silver in rivers, you still haven't produced a peer reviewed scientific paper, or even a set of statistics that shows a coorelation between living in an area with colloidal silver contamination in its water supply and healthier people. What happened to people miraculously living to their 80's by drinking the magic water? And what was the EPA testing in the Rhine river for? What about all of those other governments in the area?

 

[TheFearmonger]

Your main evidence is your blood pressure. One, that has been pointed out to be bad. two, read about the placebo effect.

Scaly, is there any chemicals in blood pressure meds that would react with silver?

 

[jrparri]

**singing**

This is the thread that never ends....
it just goes on and on my friends....

Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because.......

This is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends. Some people made some claims, not knowing what was what, and they'll continue writing forever just because, this is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends.

 

[khronikos]

I'm going to play the D advocate here and give the other side a bit of play because it sickens me to see this kind of dictatorship and gang mentality on something that no one really has any large amount of hard scientific data to back anything up in the sense that you or anyone has spent the associated couple hundred million dollars on pharma testing or ever will especially if indeed colloidal silver actually works. And pharma testing refutes itself as the number of deaths each year is increasing from the drugs they propagate on people that logically should just eat healthier and get some exercise. Using science and Pharma to promote truth rings no bells but funeral bells. The heavy metal term that scaly has used too much is not even accurate as of science so you might as well stop using it. You would kindly visit the sight below and view the PDF's or do your own research before throwing that term around so much.

AND LET US NEVER PRETEND that BIG PHARMA has not killed thousands upon thousands with their rat cage drugs. If any of you believe for one second that BP, and their scientific reason, would ever let something like a cure all, if it existed, out to the public you humor only the retarded. These companies are purely profit driven and will do anything at all to market their own drugs captured from the wild and then borked in the lab and sold to you the consumer with only the barest hint of safety. I am not sure who some of you are, but to even think for a couple seconds that these people are out for your general health is preposterous, moronic, and infantile in the worst kind of way. You either work for them or you are purely the idiot.

Sure, there is always room for a safe and very well tested drug such as penicillin on the market. But what does it all come back to in the end. It comes back to mother nature. It comes back to the right foods and pure water in the most basic forms. We are humans, not mechanical pieces of lab equipment that need oil and lube from a scientist. It doesn't involve a pill and 300 million dollars so you can sell a product. It seems so many here are just plain skeptical for the reason of being skeptical. How vicarious of you. Dying for your own art, heh. No point in using your imagination because as we all know it is not accepted in the realms of reason. Kant had room for imagination, though, and I am pretty sure he has more intelligence and wisdom than any two members on this board. Some of you would be all the better to accept that not all things are going to be measured in a lab to be true. If this were true itself, then thousands of years of anecdotal wisdom would be thrown out the door. And for what, so you can see something writ on paper that theorizes this or that and confirms by one or two experiments and your locked sense of belief that it is true in itself only because of this?

I am foremost a skeptic until I see something that I feel is true. Have you done your research, scaly? I love how you are so combative yet in reality that is all your evidence is based off. A few general facts. Where is your evidence that this concoction is not helping people and is not in truth a natural basement antibiotic? Wait, you don't have any because you have no knowledge of anything but science and its currently limited viewpoint on colloidal silver. Your own knowledge is not good enough here and you have zero anecdotal tidbits to offer. So how can you seemingly defend your position. Wait, what is you position? That everything the guy said is completely false. Sure, a lot of what HE said might be construed or rightfully proposed to be bullshite. But the matter at hand is if colloidal silver works, if it is indeed capable of being made by the common man in quantities that are pure enough to work. This is not unfeasible. The fact that ancients had better teeth than a lot of you probably do without fluoridation and dentists is something that belongs in the long lists of things that they did better than us simply because we are run by science spun out of control and controlled itself by an elite sponge of bankers and businessmen bent on bettering only themselves first and foremost. Your dentist or doctor is not your enemy, as long as you educate yourself on what he knows and may not know about YOUR own body. Does that mean you should trust him everytime he wants to drill that small cavity that can logically heal itself if you better your diet and use your common sense with minerals and vitamins?

Knowledge itself is contained in the world around us in most people's opinions. We use our brains, not specifically physical instruments, to attain this knowledge and to decipher whether, according to our Known logic, it may be false or true, or even uncertain. Since you do have some facts per se, you are not totally being a douchebag. But quite redundant I might add. Of course you gauge yourself as an obvious empiricist and nothing but. Fine. But not all of us are interested in reason and only that. We are interested in the unknown, and what can be known. Silver, as you even admit, has many many properties relating to anti this and that dating back thousands of years. This is not arguable. Nor is it arguable that thousands of years ago these properties were not up to date and scientifically researched and proven true before they were held as true by belief, faith, or plain eye sight. Colloidal silver has a lot of anecdotal evidence at the moment going for it. There are currently all kinds of appliances in japan being manufactured or to be with nano silver products. The list of course beyond this was probably already mentioned: It includes filters for astronauts, salves, etc....

http://www.silvermedicine.org/silver-heavy-metal.html

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:EHcL-PYjk40J:www.pdazzler.com/wp-content/pdf/colloidal-silver.pdf+colloidal+silver+in+vitro&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShqJmHKA7XDIcBhX2EhbgsPCq-NZ4e4M9XUj9XF5rW_W6vy0QJ53-4aE1i7BSIzjT2VuMRTBhQVNiKix0DDrAAcNYa3Vv4SFL1CKfTUVpEd0D7UIEma4wVCJeRB2vyCEuzMzaNz&sig=AHIEtbQd3vvQEKoXulIcRYwjLZhRZB8TSQ

--"Extensive research into the curative properties of silver has been conducted for many years at the Upstate Medical Center, Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY. Under the direction of Dr. Robert Beck, M.D., author of The Body Electric and Crosscurrents. The experiments concluded that silver works on a wide range of bacteria, without any known side-effects or damage to the cells of the body. Dr. Beck discovered that the silver was doing something more than just killing disease-causing organisms: It was also causing major growth stimulation of injured tissues. Dr. Beck concludes that the presence of the silver ion may help regenerate tissue, eliminate old or cancerous cells, and any other diseased or abnormal tissue condition.

Dr. Bjorn Nordenstrom, of the Larolinska Institute, Sweden, has successfully used silver as a component in his cancer treatments for many years. Dr. Leonard Keene Hirschberg, A.M., M.D. (John Hopkins) states, "Speaking generally, the colloidal metals are especially remarkable for their beneficial action in infective states." Dr. Richard L. Davies, executive director of the Silver Institute, which monitors silver technology in 37 countries, reports: "In four years we've described 87 important new medical uses for silver. We're just beginning to see what extent silver can relieve suffering".

Despite years of research to find a superior pharmaceutical product, silver is still considered the most effective germ fighter and promoter of rapid healing in cases of severe burns. Silver is used in most major burn centers in the US. UCLA medical labs found it effectively disabled every virus tested.

Silver filters are found in the water fountains of every airliner and space craft to guarantee germ-free water. Silver is used also by the Soviets to sterilize recycled water aboard the Mir Space Station. Silver is being used to replace chlorine in swimming pools, because it does not sting the eyes and offers greater germicidal action. Laboratory tests have shown that Colloidal Silver will kill all known bacteria, fungi, viruses and parasites within 2-6 minutes of contact. Many chronic infections, from pyorrhea to vaginal yeast infections, conditions which are often resistant to drug therapy, will quickly clear up with Colloidal Silver."--

I implore you to read the entire site not to convince yourself of anything but to gain more knowledge on the proposition that colloidal silver is helpful not harmful. As a heavy metal in name there is reasoning both ways and the dubious claim of heavy metals is quite foggy to say the least. So your assumptions that millions of people who use this stuff are poisoning themselves can honestly take a back seat. Instead of living in your self made house of denial, come out into the open and learn and then refute. You simply are refuting based on your current knowledge which appears to me as if you think you are all knowing. This is comical. After you have thoroughly researched both sides then and only then can you be trusted to make an opinion that matters. Some of you remind me of the 9/11 truth deniers that insist our government in the US is completely fabulous, not capable of starting war for profit and gain, LOFL, and that all the hundreds of thousands of documents of evidence pointing to the US being directly involved somehow disappears in the face of 'rational' examination.

Now I will give you this: there is not nearly as much documentation for colloidal silver. But the fact remain that nobody here denying its efficacy and purity and role in eliminating pathogens has any clue as the next guy swallowing it what it actually does on the inside. So in reality none of your are ever going to come to a conclusion. The only conclusion is to gain more knowledge on the subject. Testing is not going to happen on large scale just as it doesn't for many things that don't work and do work. This is because of something called Big Pharma and their ever reaching hand into things that would influence their profits. Not many people have 200 million sitting around for tests. Peace.

 

[Squawk]

khronikos,

For a first post that's a hell of a lot of text. I'll leave it to others here to rip it to shreds (yes, it will happen, it's got more holes in it than a sieve), but for now take this as a pre-emptive strike and a warning not to insult fellow forum users. Attack the argument, not the person.

 

[Aught3]

Wow big pharma conspiracy and anecdotal accounts, great devil's advocate you've got going there :roll: I was hoping christmas had come early but the post is so void of content there's really nothing to sink my teeth into. Everyone here accepts that topical silver-based medicines (sold by big pharma, incidentally) have anti-microbial effects. The reason silver is rarely sold as a medicine anymore is because of it's toxicity and the discovery of more effective alternatives.

If silver kills cancer cells that could be an interesting use for the metal, not really an argument for downing the stuff daily however.

 

[khronikos]

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:EHcL-PYjk40J:www.pdazzler.com/wp-content/pdf/colloidal-silver.pdf+colloidal+silver+in+vitro&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShqJmHKA7XDIcBhX2EhbgsPCq-NZ4e4M9XUj9XF5rW_W6vy0QJ53-4aE1i7BSIzjT2VuMRTBhQVNiKix0DDrAAcNYa3Vv4SFL1CKfTUVpEd0D7UIEma4wVCJeRB2vyCEuzMzaNz&sig=AHIEtbQd3vvQEKoXulIcRYwjLZhRZB8TSQ

Be sure to rip this apart too. I'm just a relayer for the other side here. I don't want to be on your side. I have no affiliation with either. It must be noted that anything that can pass the FDA in the US must be backed up with Scrooge like money bins. Not a lot of 'drugs' have this backing. http://www.silvermedicine.org/colloidalsilverstudytexas.html

Seriously, I have no idea where you are going or what your point is. More holes than a sieve. LOL. Nope. Sorry. I never made any wide ranging claims. Oh, that big pharma exists. Wow, are you going to deny that now. I am pretty sure someone here is working for the man. Please please, STOP posting your own 'facts' as related to what we are talking about HERE. Show me how toxic silver is, and this kind of silver in general. Not the kind of silver that is made this way or that way. Show me that the silver we are talking about here, 99.99%, does any harm to anybody in the methods described on the site I gave a link to. I don't care one way or another dude so you can just take that as your cake and do what you want with it. I don't know quite who you people think you are but I am not about to sit here and get lectured.

No, don't leave it to the others. You guys are a pretty good gang. So do it yourself. I have pretty decent qualifications. Nobody I know who makes this stuff for the company they work for, or even the people that make it at home with methods similar to said companies, says to use this stuff on a daily basis or all the time. This stuff is used in severe cases such as tooth infections and often times WITH penicillin. The laboratory studies that I have personally viewed all seemed to agree that this stuff works but it works very well when combined with an antibiotic.

And for the record. I don't know anybody who makes this stuff with silver dollars. And I am not saying it works so exactly what are you going to rip apart? There is nothing. I am saying you people need to do a little more than agree with each other. It takes more than gang mentality to refute something that hasn't even been disproved or proved. I don't even get what all you guys are going on about. Nobody has brought any real evidence one way or another. All I am saying is instead of just denying everything open your mind a little bit. I didn't insult anyone either. Check the past posts for insults not mine.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

khronikos,

Do you really think that no one over the last 20 pages of thread addressed any of the things you might have to say?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Good. We don't think it works either. Therefore, you have nothing else to post here, if you're being honest. If you're being dishonest, you'll post a whole bunch of the same nonsense that has been previously debunked.

I'm all kinds of waiting to see the outcome. :mrgreen:

 

[Aught3]

And for the record. I don't know anybody who makes this stuff with silver dollars. And I am not saying it works so exactly what are you going to rip apart? There is nothing. I am saying you people need to do a little more than agree with each other. It takes more than gang mentality to refute something that hasn't even been disproved or proved. I don't even get what all you guys are going on about. Nobody has brought any real evidence one way or another. All I am saying is instead of just denying everything open your mind a little bit. I didn't insult anyone either. Check the past posts for insults not mine.

DH2 http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

In the case of medicinal products there is a heavy burden of proof on the side making the claim. There was more than enough evidence given to show a concern about the toxic effects of silver and argyria to make the point*. What we need to see now is some evidence that silver remedies are efficacious and safe, if you haven't got any then your claims will be dismissed - and rightfully so. If you want to fall back on a big pharma conspiracy then you will need to provide some evidence for that instead.

*Here's another: http://annhyg.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/7/575.full

 

[borrofburi]

I'm going to play the D advocate here and give the other side a bit of play because it sickens me to see this kind of dictatorship

Whoa now... I don't think that word means what you think it means...

something that no one really has any large amount of hard scientific data to back anything up in the sense that you or anyone has spent the associated couple hundred million dollars on pharma testing or ever will especially if indeed colloidal silver actually works. And pharma testing refutes itself as the number of deaths each year is increasing from the drugs they propagate on people that logically should just eat healthier and get some exercise. Using science and Pharma to promote truth rings no bells but funeral bells.

So your so-called "argument" is "prove me wrong! And if you don't it proves I'm right because of the big pharma conspiracy!"? Wow I was going to continue on because, quite frankly I need to sharpen my claws and have a little fun, but my quick reading indicates the above two sentences are indeed the whole of your "argument", indeed it is even indicative that the above two sentences are a very charitable take on your "argument".

Oh no wait, here it is, naturalistic fallacy...

If you want to defend something, especially around here, especially if you want *any* of us to believe you, please present some actual evidence.

 

[borrofburi]

Kant had room for imagination, though, and I am pretty sure he has more intelligence and wisdom than any two members on this board.

Oh dear... *sigh*
Semi-friendly mod reminder:
Another mod already noted this but you rejected it, so I'll clarify:
That this is not directed at any specific member is immaterial. A direct insult of all the members of LoR is a violation of the rules, especially when it is done in such a non-constructive non-substantive manner.

you are not totally being a douchebag.

You just called scalyblue a douchebag... and you have the audacity to claim that there are no insults in your posts? Oh sure, you said "not-totally", but the necessary implication is that he is almost a complete douchebag...

 

[borrofburi]

And now for an encore, because I'm bored; and despite being awake for 20 consecutive hours, I don't quite feel like going to bed yet.

No point in using your imagination because as we all know it is not accepted in the realms of reason.

Imagination is great, I love imagination.... But unfortunately neither my imagination, nor your imagination, nor anyone else's imagination is in any way whatsoever a reason to believe something is actually and really true. Imagination may be beautiful, wonderful, enriching, but it is not evidence as to the actual truth of something, for there is no way to tell the difference between something that is imagined and is false, and something that is imagine and is true. In short, the very act of imagining something has no bearing on the reality of that something.

Some of you would be all the better to accept that not all things are going to be measured in a lab to be true.

Actually.... nothing has to be measured in a lab to be true. Things are true whether or not they are known to be true. But this is immaterial, none of us are saying things are false until they're measured in a lab; that you seem to think this is indicative of a very significant failure of understanding.

Instead we are simply saying that we have no reason to believe something until there is evidence to support it. In some situations this evidence is very minor (e.g. that my friend had a BLT for lunch... if he says he had a BLT for lunch, that's probably sufficient evidence), but in other situations a lot of evidence is required (e.g. that your mass actually increases simply by having a higher velocity).

If this were true itself, then thousands of years of anecdotal wisdom would be thrown out the door.

Ideally these things would be well tested to determine which were true, and which were based on confirmation bias and idea retainment.

I am foremost a skeptic until I see something that I feel is true.

I reject your definition of skeptic as useless: under that definition everyone is a skeptic, because everyone is skeptical of things unless they feel they're true... And when a definition includes everything in the universe it applies in (i.e. humans, known sentient species), it results in either a name for something previously unnamed, or a redundant and useless word. "Our" (I use the word loosely) whole angle is that we require evidence to rationally believe something, not just emotional acceptance.

Where is your evidence that this concoction is not helping people and is not in truth a natural basement antibiotic? Wait, you don't have any because you have no knowledge of anything but science and its currently limited viewpoint on colloidal silver.

Oh wonderful, we're back to "prove it wrong!" and "science doesn't know everything!"...

Your own knowledge is not good enough here and you have zero anecdotal tidbits to offer.

Anecdote is an extremely weak form of evidence, especially online...

The fact that ancients had better teeth than a lot of you probably do without fluoridation and dentists is something that belongs in the long lists of things that they did better than us simply because we are run by science spun out of control and controlled itself by an elite sponge of bankers and businessmen bent on bettering only themselves first and foremost.

Wow this sentence really contains pretty much everything... err, where "thing" means "fallacy".

It's not a fact that ancients had better teeth simply by your declaring it to be. You have to provide evidence....

And then you go back to your science conspiracies...

Knowledge itself is contained in the world around us in most people's opinions.

"You can't know anything, knowledge is only opinion"... I also wonder "if knowledge is so loose a weave" when choosing between exiting from the front door or the second floor window...

But not all of us are interested in reason and only that.

Yes, it is painfully obvious that there are many people who aren't interested in reason, and there are those who seem to have no interest in rationality at all.

Colloidal silver has a lot of anecdotal evidence at the moment going for it.

Anecdotal evidence is a very weak form of evidence. Please, provide something more substantial, because if anecdotal evidence is your standard then I can prove that aliens exist, that homeopathy works, that bigfoot exists, that reflexology works, that elves exist, that ionic footbaths work, that djin exist, that magnet therapy works, that the lockness monster exists, that ear candling is good for you, and that urinating on people cures their cancer...

There are currently all kinds of appliances in japan being manufactured or to be with nano silver products.

Unless you want to argue that all things manufactured (in japan) are effective for the reasons they say, then this is not evidence. Actually... it's quite opaque how this is supposed to be evidence for the ingestion of colloidal silver. But I'll point out that there are plenty of things that are sold that are known to have very little effectiveness, but because people will by them they'll be sold.

I implore you to read the entire site not to convince yourself of anything but to gain more knowledge on the proposition that colloidal silver is helpful not harmful.

Why? Why should I trust that site? Why should I trust their claims?

After you have thoroughly researched both sides then and only then can you be trusted to make an opinion that matters. Some of you remind me of the 9/11 truth deniers that insist our government in the US is completely fabulous, not capable of starting war for profit and gain, LOFL, and that all the hundreds of thousands of documents of evidence pointing to the US being directly involved somehow disappears in the face of 'rational' examination.

This is comical... Your attempted motivational "do more research!" speech's sole evidential example is 9/11 truther conspiracy... If you're seeking credibility for your galileo gambit, extremely controversial and derided conspiracy theories are not the way to do it.


And you go back to big pharma conspiracy... Wonderful.

 

[ArthurWilborn]

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:EHcL-PYjk40J:www.pdazzler.com/wp-content/pdf/colloidal-silver.pdf+colloidal+silver+in+vitro&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShqJmHKA7XDIcBhX2EhbgsPCq-NZ4e4M9XUj9XF5rW_W6vy0QJ53-4aE1i7BSIzjT2VuMRTBhQVNiKix0DDrAAcNYa3Vv4SFL1CKfTUVpEd0D7UIEma4wVCJeRB2vyCEuzMzaNz&sig=AHIEtbQd3vvQEKoXulIcRYwjLZhRZB8TSQ

Be sure to rip this apart too. I'm just a relayer for the other side here. I don't want to be on your side. I have no affiliation with either. It must be noted that anything that can pass the FDA in the US must be backed up with Scrooge like money bins. Not a lot of 'drugs' have this backing. http://www.silvermedicine.org/colloidalsilverstudytexas.html

Happy to be of help! These are agar plate studies, not in vivo trials. The sample sizes appear to be too small to be significant; five in the first link, not mentioned in the second. If we accept the result, all this does is prove that silver is toxic - which we already know. That doesn't mean it's safe or effective to use in a living system.

Show me how toxic silver is, and this kind of silver in general. Not the kind of silver that is made this way or that way. Show me that the silver we are talking about here, 99.99%, does any harm to anybody in the methods described on the site I gave a link to.

Here you are:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11107524?dopt=Abstract
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/silverad.html

Eh, if you're allergic to antibiotics and not too worried about heavy metals, maybe a topical solution could work - but you can get peroxide at the dollar store for a lot less.

 

[Anachronous Rex]

I would just like to point out that people have been using silver as a disinfectant (even if they didn't know thats what they were doing) since... well, since they learned to smelt silver.

In the last hundred years the average lifespan in first world nations has gone from about 30 (excluding infant mortality, of course), to about 75. The Medical use of silver did not cause this, 'big pharma' did.

 

[Squawk]

No, don't leave it to the others. You guys are a pretty good gang. So do it yourself.

I weigh up various factors when making the decision on whether or not to debunk bullshit. In this instance my considered decision was "can't be arsed". This was based on numerous factors: The idiotic arguments being put forth, the fact that pretty much everything raised could be trivially shown to be a logical fallacy, the fact that just about every claim had been previously debunked in this very thread.

In short, I consider it to be a complete waste of my time. If you spend any time reading these boards you will note than when I do decide to debunk bullshit I put in lots of effort and time. But not this bullshit, no fun and already done.

 

[australopithecus]

Looks like Nicoan bought himself some socks.

 

[khronikos]

Whoa, whoa. There is absolutely ZERO! ZERO! ZERO! information as fact that would in any way state that colloidal silver in the form of what WE ARE TALKING ABOUT--NOT FREAKING 450PPM or some other kind of hyper salt solution.... GOOD GOD HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE!--is helpful from anecdotal evidence from literally thousands of people that have made claims as to its efficiency in reducing cold and flu symptoms and also from some of the studies I listed. You can't just backhand those studies. Those are professional studies. Simply saying they are too small proves nothing. You have no proof that they are too small. Start showing me what you are asking of me before you make your outrageous claims. This can go back and forth again and again. You gave literally two weaker than sin websites of purely anecdotal evidence!!!!!!

Where is the case study on each of those claims that those people with sickness were or were not experimenting with anything that could seriously mess up their concoction. What was their concoction made of. You cannot just list one sentence and take that as truth. What the heck do you think you are doing in the name of science. You cannot get away with that. You can't just list a website and then act like everything on it is true. I never did but it seems to be the norm here. Your arguments are all literally the same. You just negate whatever else anybody else says and then agree with each other and accept the subject matter as truth. You have proved literally nothing. They list a couple names and very little information about any of these people. You have no facts to back anything up. The FDA give me a break! I could literally sit here for hours naming sites about the FDA and their basic hegemony of the whole business in which they are in. A close look at the major players in the FDA reveals connections far and wide in the elite spectrum of business and to administrations past and present.

http://www.downsizedc.org/blog/first-fda-censorship-now-fda-lies
http://www.rense.com/general80/rec.htm
http://www.naturalnews.com/025298_the_FDA_scientists.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/021959_Avandia_diabetes.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/004728_drug_racket_Vioxx.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/020029.html
http://www.gaia-health.com/articles151/000198-big-pharma-blocks-studies-of-long-term-adhd-drug-effects-while-fda-and-emea-dither.shtml


If you gathered all the colloidal silver users in one you would have more than a couple million people. There can be no study because it would cost millions of dollars and no single person is ever going to get approval where they need it even if they could put up the absurd amount of money. Since most people like to trust the opinions of their fellow humans when they gather to discuss something seriously most of us do in fact take these things as some factual evidence of the efficacy and safety. People have been taking low doses of this stuff for over a decade without one instance of notably blue skin. So what does this say? It says that all this information is bunk and there needs to some serious insight into the whole thing. IT DOES NOT MEAN in any shape way or form that you and the gang here are right or wrong.

Do you people not understand this thing called money? This is why there are very few studies on herbs, even though it is generally accepted as fact that there are herbs everywhere around the world that solve any variety of symptoms for any variety of ailments. Yet there are next to Zero major studies released on the majority of these herbs. Who is going to fund them? The drug companies that need patents for these herbs to sell them in pill form? Uhh, I don't think so. They will make it into some kind of pill with dozens of other ingredients and then they will patent it and try to fund a study with their trillions. und us.... that was meant as in most people's opinions it does. You are reading the words in a different way.