Reply to Wark.
Nope. Perfection or impeccability isn't required, as stated several times. It's not a strategy either, I just see problems with his position and I'm talking about them.
Vego isn't decreasing any suffering. You think that if someone goes vegan right now that all the farms and slaughter houses and supermarkets are alerted? Do they get an email saying "hey guys we've just heard Bob from Vegetable avenue has gone vegan - no need to kill cow/chicken/pig 956844443 after all - let it go"
Comes back to my previous point about the sheer amount of traction veganism requires in order to make even a minuscule dent. Oh appeal to futility I hear you cry... I view it as an appeal to reality.
I don't really know what you mean here.
So? I wasn't aware that replies must be restricted to specifically what Vego has said? Are we not allowed to add thoughts, context, examples, bring up other on-topic issues during the conversation? If you look at my replies to Vego, you'll see that up until the last few I was replying to pretty much every sentence he posted. Blow by blow. The thread title is "Why Vegan?" not "Here's my own personal twist on veganism and you can't talk about veganism in general"
No again. Still don't do that. Vego posted the definition of veganism he's using, which is in and of itself open to manipulation and has massive amounts of wiggle room. I am objecting on the basis that he, by his own admission is not adhering ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS HE COULD to that definition. Do you not think this is an issue? I certainly do.
I see that this is a reply to Sparhafoc rather than me, but I'll give you my own take on it. I admitted, very early on in the thread that I was generalizing and would continue to do so. That doesn't mean I haven't addressed what Vego has actually said. If you, or Vego think I've missed, or dodged some direct point and not addressed it then feel free to point me to it and if I haven't addressed it then I shall. Provided it's at least mildly important to the subject.
That's not really the same thing, but even if it were the problem we're having in this conversation would still remain. Vego has come to argue for veganism. It has been discovered that vego isn't vegan enough, in my opinion, to be pontificating on the superior moral virtues of veganism compared to non-veganism. He has the option to be more consistent with his position than he actually is being. This is a problem. To tie it back to your comparison, it's like some clean air greenpeace campaigner driving around in a fume spewing monster truck. If they're driving a Prius then there's less to object to. Less holes to pick.
Again, I'm aware that you're talking to Sparhafoc here but I (as already stated) would not do this. And seeing as I'm (again) clearly stating that I wouldn't, any further insistence from your self or Vego that I would is nothing more than a strawman. A particularly dishonest one at that.
It seems that you've created this image of a morally impeccable vegan in your head and you blame Vego for not adhering to it. It's brilliant strategy, really, You can't lose
Nope. Perfection or impeccability isn't required, as stated several times. It's not a strategy either, I just see problems with his position and I'm talking about them.
All Vego is doing is "not buying meat". I'd say that's a lot if the objective is to decrease animal suffering.
Vego isn't decreasing any suffering. You think that if someone goes vegan right now that all the farms and slaughter houses and supermarkets are alerted? Do they get an email saying "hey guys we've just heard Bob from Vegetable avenue has gone vegan - no need to kill cow/chicken/pig 956844443 after all - let it go"
Comes back to my previous point about the sheer amount of traction veganism requires in order to make even a minuscule dent. Oh appeal to futility I hear you cry... I view it as an appeal to reality.
See? One word, collateral, and we've made meat eating more vegan than wheat eating.
I don't really know what you mean here.
Vego explicitly said that he wasn't speaking for all people using the label "vegan"
So? I wasn't aware that replies must be restricted to specifically what Vego has said? Are we not allowed to add thoughts, context, examples, bring up other on-topic issues during the conversation? If you look at my replies to Vego, you'll see that up until the last few I was replying to pretty much every sentence he posted. Blow by blow. The thread title is "Why Vegan?" not "Here's my own personal twist on veganism and you can't talk about veganism in general"
You set a standard for being a vegan and blame Vego for not upholding it
No again. Still don't do that. Vego posted the definition of veganism he's using, which is in and of itself open to manipulation and has massive amounts of wiggle room. I am objecting on the basis that he, by his own admission is not adhering ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS HE COULD to that definition. Do you not think this is an issue? I certainly do.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think both You and SD admitted to addressing "general vegan arguments" and not Vego's arguments specifically.
I see that this is a reply to Sparhafoc rather than me, but I'll give you my own take on it. I admitted, very early on in the thread that I was generalizing and would continue to do so. That doesn't mean I haven't addressed what Vego has actually said. If you, or Vego think I've missed, or dodged some direct point and not addressed it then feel free to point me to it and if I haven't addressed it then I shall. Provided it's at least mildly important to the subject.
By that logic we should stop worrying about global warming because we can't stop CO₂ emissions entirely.
That's not really the same thing, but even if it were the problem we're having in this conversation would still remain. Vego has come to argue for veganism. It has been discovered that vego isn't vegan enough, in my opinion, to be pontificating on the superior moral virtues of veganism compared to non-veganism. He has the option to be more consistent with his position than he actually is being. This is a problem. To tie it back to your comparison, it's like some clean air greenpeace campaigner driving around in a fume spewing monster truck. If they're driving a Prius then there's less to object to. Less holes to pick.
If Vego managed to eliminate all things that cause any animal suffering from his diet/life and one day was riding his bike and swallowed a bug, I bet you'd jump out of bushes and shout that he wasn't a true vegan.
Again, I'm aware that you're talking to Sparhafoc here but I (as already stated) would not do this. And seeing as I'm (again) clearly stating that I wouldn't, any further insistence from your self or Vego that I would is nothing more than a strawman. A particularly dishonest one at that.