This may be partly why there is anti-Islam prejudice

[Lallapalalable]

As skewed as his message may be, I do think he's right, to a point. Islam has a history of being a violent, deceptive and stubborn religion. True for just about any major religion, at some point in time or another, but Islam was born of and exists through intolerance. It does have potential to grow up, but retains some major flaws that are easily exploited, and is its own worst enemy in terms of being accepted. Yes, there are moderate Muslims, and the few I have met have been some of the coolest people I've known. But the fact remains that there exist among them the more fanatical members, and as outsiders we have no way of telling them apart, save the presence of explosions.

What I do know, though, is that there exists a level of ignorance and xenophobia in even the most tolerant of us; Muslim, Christian, Heretic, etc., and with the West's recent and ongoing hurts on Islam's part, I see no mystery whatsoever to why there is a prejudice. That, and the fact that most people everywhere are not at all very tolerant and quite xenophobic all on their own, different colored skin and a funny language don't even need to be a factor.

That's all, and try as we might, we are a looong way from holding hands and swaying at an acoustic candle-lit love concert. We can try, and to do so is admirable, just don't expect to see results for a few generations yet.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

As skewed as his message may be, I do think he's right, to a point. Islam has a history of being a violent, deceptive and stubborn religion. True for just about any major religion, at some point in time or another, but Islam was born of and exists through intolerance. It does have potential to grow up, but retains some major flaws that are easily exploited, and is its own worst enemy in terms of being accepted. Yes, there are moderate Muslims, and the few I have met have been some of the coolest people I've known. But the fact remains that there exist among them the more fanatical members, and as outsiders we have no way of telling them apart, save the presence of explosions.

You can also try to find out what they believe about certain topics like equality of men and women, equality between Muslims and non-Muslims, amputations, capital punishment for anything other than murder, Caliphate vs. democracy and secularism etc.

 

[australopithecus]

Given your history here it's plainly obvious you've done none of those things.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Have you? You can't even bring yourself to call DawahFilms an extremist.

 

[australopithecus]

No I wouldn't. I'd call him a fundamentalist, but seeing as he hasn't blown anyone up I wouldn't call him an extremist.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

You don't actually need to be a terrorist to be an extremist. Let me remind you this is the guy who wants to bring back the Caliphate (which of course would include the abolition of the entire secular Turkish state, Israel and most of Spain - assuming DawahFilms is consistent, not to mention that a Caliphate would be a threat to world piece) and wants to execute apostates.

 

[australopithecus]

Exactly, so he's a fundamentalist. You can play semantic gymnastics all you like, but you're every bit the fundamentalist he is. The only difference is the philosophies you espouse.

 

[Epiquinn]

Exactly, so he's a fundamentalist. You can play semantic gymnastics all you like, but you're every bit the fundamentalist he is. The only difference is the philosophies you espouse.

That's showing a bit of warped sense of proportion, seeing as Dogma's Demise hasn't called for anyone to be killed and DawahFilms has.

 

[australopithecus]

DD has consistently shown massive intolerance and bias towards Islam and anyone who doesn't piss their pants at the thought of Islam, derided in this instance as "leftists" or other various nonsense, and he has actively supported the suspension of basic human rights for spurious reasons. So he hasn't called for someone to be killed (I'm assuming this is a reference to the weak sauce "threat" towards tf00t.)? It doesn't make him any less the fundie.

 

[Epiquinn]

So he hasn't called for someone to be killed (I'm assuming this is a reference to the weak sauce "threat" towards tf00t.)? It doesn't make him any less the fundie.

Yes it does. People who promote violence for their cause are far more fundamentalist than people with simply "intolerant" and "biased" opinions.

 

[bluejatheist]

Fundamentalism: 2: a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles <Islamic fundamentalism> <political fundamentalism>

Extremism: 2: advocacy of extreme measures or views : radicalism

The former deals with the adherence to an ideology, the latter deals with the actions on the behalf of an ideology.

 

[australopithecus]

So he hasn't called for someone to be killed (I'm assuming this is a reference to the weak sauce "threat" towards tf00t.)? It doesn't make him any less the fundie.

Yes it does. People who promote violence for their cause are far more fundamentalist than people with simply "intolerant" and "biased" opinions.

Far more fundamentalist, indeed. However that only makes DD less fundamentalist, it doesn't make him not a fundamentalist.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

and he has actively supported the suspension of basic human rights for spurious reasons.

Don't you support the suspension of human rights when you support a Palestinian state that you know will not treat women, gays, atheists, Jews and other minorities with the same rights and dignity? Forget anti-Israel acts for a second, I am talking about what goes on within Palestinian borders. Clearly you have decided that it's more economical and practical to allow Palestinian leaders to butcher their own people for trivial bullshit, not because you're a bad person, but just because trying to stop it would take too much effort and possibly even cause more problems than it tries to solve. Ain't that right, australopithecus?

Haven't you ever heard of war? Sure even in a war you should act ethically, but you're not exactly going to be able to uphold the human rights of your enemies 100% of the time. I mean you can try, but you're going to cripple yourself and your enemy will most certainly not give two shits about your countrymen's human rights. There's a reason they say war is hell.

For example Hamas uses human shields, so when Israel defends itself and civilians inevitably die, you see Israel as the most guilty side. Hamas knows this, and that's why they do it, they often fire rockets from civilian areas so when Israel retaliates they can play the victim.

 

[Epiquinn]

You can play semantic gymnastics all you like, but you're every bit the fundamentalist he is. The only difference is the philosophies you espouse.

It doesn't make him any less the fundie.

However that only makes DD less fundamentalist

So you changed your mind?

 

[australopithecus]

You can play semantic gymnastics all you like, but you're every bit the fundamentalist he is. The only difference is the philosophies you espouse.

It doesn't make him any less the fundie.

However that only makes DD less fundamentalist

So you changed your mind?

Nope, the threat of vague violence (as per Dahwah) and actively promoting the removal of human rights is equally moronic in my opinion.

 

[australopithecus]

Don't you support the suspension of human rights when you support a Palestinian state that you know will not treat women, gays, atheists, Jews and other minorities with the same rights and dignity? [...]

Nope, but I can see how you'd think that given your straw man. I've only stated I support Palestine's right not to be occupied and annexed. I never said anything about supporting anything else. Perhaps actually read what people post instead of making shit up?

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Don't you support the suspension of human rights when you support a Palestinian state that you know will not treat women, gays, atheists, Jews and other minorities with the same rights and dignity? [...]

Nope, but I can see how you'd think that given your straw man. I've only stated I support Palestine's right not to be occupied and annexed.

And how exactly does that work when Palestinian ground is a haven for some of the most dangerous terrorists in the world? You need to drop your pseudo-idealism and realize you're dealing with people bent on Israel's destruction. They leave that land completely and it's going to be used against them, and then they'll have to go through it all over again just to defend themselves. Another invasion to clean out the terrorists and more cries from the dhimmis in the first world while never condemning any actions on the Palestinian side.

Hasn't that withdrawal from Gaza taught us anything? They left Gaza, dismantled settlements, and what they got in response was more jihadist violence.

Also, please tell us how human rights are supposed to be applied 100% of the time in circumstances of war? What are you going are you going to ask for permission to invade enemy territory? :lol: Will you need a warrant to enter enemy buildings and a charge to hold prisoners of war for more than 24 hours?

 

[australopithecus]

You're a lost cause. You're so blinded by fear you'd pretty much justify any atrocity at this point, so long it Muslims were on the receiving end, of course. I truly pity you.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

No you're a lost cause. You need to start taking into account Israel's security needs as well if you want me to listen.

 

[australopithecus]

Bollocks, and it's a given you haven't been listening from day one, so colour me uninterested. Occupation is not a defensive strategy. End of.