Should selcularists celebrate Christmas?

[Logic-Nanaki]

I have never celebratet christmas ever. not once ever in my childhood. even when i used to be a christian.
HOWever Yule is the holiday i have celebrated every year. dont belive me? tune in a norwegian channel on TV and see for your self.
every seasons greeting there says "God Jul" (Good, Happy Yule)
wich i think without doing any research is derived from ye olde viking times as a BIG frikkin party for the winter solstice.
and just as all secularists in here know, that the christians hijacked.

 

[Giliell]

Halloween never really was religious but I agree with you the most.

.

Oh, slight missunderstanding here, so I'll elaborate on the point of Halloween a bit more.
Halloween (celtic Samhain) is pagan. People used to believe that on that night the doors to the otherworld would be open and bad creatures would walk on earth so they disguised themselves in order to be taken as one of them and therefore not harmed.

Now, does anybody (except for a few neo-pagans) believe that anymore?
No
Do people still enjoy it?
Yes

So maybe one day that'll be the case with chrismas and for me already is

And here's to all of you:

 

[Jorick]

I don't consider Christmas a truly religious holiday anymore. The only people who apply religious meaning to it nowadays, so far as I see, are the fundamentalist Christian types. I find it more appropriate to consider it a secular economic holiday. Think about it: what's the biggest element of the holiday? Presents. Who benefits most from this? Stores and gift manufacturers. I think of it as a way to get time off of work/school and get presents while giving the economy a nice bump.

So yeah, that's my take on the issue.

 

[Whitelightning1161]

Of course we should. A lot of Christmas traditions, had nothing to do with Christianity, and yet Funides try and claim they do. I Just ignore the religious aspect of it, becuase well I'm an Atheist, but I see the need for Christmas, let's face it winter sucks, and nothing makes us feel better than stuffing our face, getting gifts, and spending time with family.

 

[nemesiss]

some (stupid) people are taking things too serious..

 

[Jorick]

some (stupid) people are taking things too serious..

So stupid it hurts. =/

 

[Warhawk57]

I recently had a dission with a Christian about christmass... She asked why an atheist would celabrate christmass?? I asked her why does she celebrate holloween are was she a pagan? She then repleid I don't celebrate Halloween (coming from the same person that dressed up like a skanky sailor) lol the whole conversation was pointless she would accept that atheist like giving and receiving presents to and that atheist can celebrate the virtue of "giving" like every other Christian....

Anyways I think that as long as there is present underneath the tree kids won't think about Christ first!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mapp]

I think there is an important distinction to be made here between religion and culture. I consider myself a cultural Christian, in that my family and I observe a lot of Christian traditions, such as celebrating Christmas, eating candy on Easter, etc. In fact, I get a huge kick out of Christmas. I like decorating the tree, I even like scaling rickety metal ladders to put up lights. I love ham and egg nog, and cookies and even fruit cake (when its my grandmother's recipe and not those abominations you find in the grocery store).

But I don't believe any of those ridiculous fairy tales associated with it. Nor do I feel the need to justify myself, or make excuses by saying, Oh I celebrate Festivus or Solstice or something like that. Nor, do I feel any hesitation at laughing at stern faced Christian prudes who want to tell me Jesus is the reason for the Season and get pissed when I say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. Cultural practice like Christmas is common with other religions as well, look at how many people consider themselves culturally Jewish, and celebrate Hannukah and Pass Over with their families without attending Synagouge or even professing a belief in God. They don't necessarily believe that their tribe was saved by a genocidal angel through the act of smearing doorways with blood, but they love their families, they've celebrated that time of year all their lives, and they want to get together and have fun.

Considering that people have been celebrating at the end of December since before written record, I feel like I'm in pretty good company anyway.

 

[Giliell]

some (stupid) people are taking things too serious..

THAT even made it to the German news.
To the column where they tell about the unbelievably crazy stuff happening eleswhere so we can be a little bit glad about the idiots we got here..

 

[mikegmco]

As a secularist I am dismayed when I see one group of people exerting undue influence on society. In many countries, one of the institutions that has the most influence is religion. My question for secularists is: does celebrating Christmas contribute to the perceived power of Christianity in public life? Christmas is clearly a Christian holy-day representing the birth of Jesus and although many of the particular rituals have been appropriated from other religions they are now a tradition of Christianity. Other religious holidays such as Ramadan, Diwali, or Hunnakah can be easily ignored by those who do not adhere to the particular religion, Christmas is pervasive in Western society. Christmas is constantly on TV, the radio, and in public life, it is impossible to ignore. Especially for adherents of other faiths and those who have none.

If you are an atheist then by celebrating a religious holiday you are promoting a particular religion, if that religion already has an undue influence on society then you are contributing to the problem. That's right, I'm trying to steal Christmas :mrgreen:

I disagree that it's purely a Christian holiday. Many people who celebrate Christmas don't celebrate it for religious reasons. I haven't celebrated Christmas for religious reasons since I was a kid and believed in that stuff. There is a great secular aspect to Christmas that non-religious people celebrate. It's simply a time of year where we spend some good time with our friends (or families for those who are close with them) and exchange gifts and perhaps be a little nicer, if only for a few weeks. An atheist who celebrates Christmas is doing so for cultural reasons, not for the birth of Jesus.

 

[xman]

I am now most emphatically of the opinion that not only should we celebrate, but we must.

Two of my aunts just posted the same thing to facebook that complained of the use of the term 'holiday' as in Happy holidays for the season and claiming that the real reason for the season is of course some possibly fictitious dude's birth in a manger. Both said essentially that we're allowed to opt out only, not participate in the fun.

So I say we keep at it and drive this one to the same status as Halloween as is almost certainly natural anyhow.

 

[peterman]

When I was Christian, in about 5th grade, I didn't enjoy the Christmas season until Christmas Day, when I got cool stuff. I think it's because I felt I should have been more in touch with Jesus (Christianity made me feel guilty for a lot of things) and try to slip away from the whole commercialism thing. Now I'm an atheist I remember to just freakin enjoy it because that's what it's all about! I remembered why I used to enjoy the season so much it wasn't about Jesus, it was about family, presents, giving and love. I love being an atheist :lol: ! So just enjoy it!. I also feel that Christmas is in December which is at the end of the year so this is the last and most amazing celebration of the year!


Merry Christmas Everyone! :mrgreen: :lol:

 

[Durakken]

The problem with associating "christmas" with christianity is that it's not... Only the name is.

The annual winter celebration of death and renewal comes from EVERY CULTURE ON EARTH.

It's gone under different names and different ways of celebrating it, but more or less that is what it has always been. The celebration of the cycle of life, the universe, and the coming together of a community.

As we move towards the present "christmas" that was at first banned by the church...
then it was holiday where the common people would go to the Lords and Ladies of the area, enter their homes and take over their manors for the night.
And that got out of control so it was banned all over the world...
which lead to the American people wanting a holiday and many businesses wanting something to sell customers and it created the holiday which spread around the world with different countries adding things...

So Christmas in it's current form is the first holiday created panglobally...and by businesses.

Christians just latched on various parts of christianity to it... like St Nick who everyone loved which was banned >.>

 

[Aught3]

Damn, no one is agreeing with me :cry:

I disagree that it's purely a Christian holiday. Many people who celebrate Christmas don't celebrate it for religious reasons. I haven't celebrated Christmas for religious reasons since I was a kid and believed in that stuff. There is a great secular aspect to Christmas that non-religious people celebrate. It's simply a time of year where we spend some good time with our friends (or families for those who are close with them) and exchange gifts and perhaps be a little nicer, if only for a few weeks. An atheist who celebrates Christmas is doing so for cultural reasons, not for the birth of Jesus.

Christmas is clearly a Christian holiday. You can look at the name of the day, the displays that go up, the extra church services, and the religious views of those who celebrate it. I agree that it is positive to have time away from work and school to spend time with family, but this aspect could be improved if it were done in the summer months (January or June) rather than in the dead of winter. Any celebration at Christmas time that uses the cultural traditions of Christianity is contributing to the perception that Christmas is a holiday celebrated by all. This perception is generated by both atheists celebrating Yule and Jews celebrating a trumped-up version of Hanukkah - no matter what reasons they have for celebrating the holiday. This perception lends credence to the idea that Western countries are dominated by Christianity. Any secularist who wants to see the dominance of Christianity reduced in their country is working against their own goals by contributing to this perception, no matter what their justification for celebrating Christmas is.

I am now most emphatically of the opinion that not only should we celebrate, but we must. ... So I say we keep at it and drive this one to the same status as Halloween as is almost certainly natural anyhow.

This is an interesting idea but Hallowe'en isn't really a Christian holiday, more of a pagan one. The Christian holiday, All Saints day, is on November the 1st and not widely celebrated outside of the religious tradition. This is more like what Christmas should become, a holiday celebrated by a lot of people but also not forced on those who don't want to take part in religion and not ubiquitous throughout society.

When I was Christian, in about 5th grade, I didn't enjoy the Christmas season until Christmas Day, when I got cool stuff. I think it's because I felt I should have been more in touch with Jesus (Christianity made me feel guilty for a lot of things) and try to slip away from the whole commercialism thing. Now I'm an atheist I remember to just freakin enjoy it because that's what it's all about! I remembered why I used to enjoy the season so much it wasn't about Jesus, it was about family, presents, giving and love. I love being an atheist :lol: ! So just enjoy it!. I also feel that Christmas is in December which is at the end of the year so this is the last and most amazing celebration of the year!

Surely the amazing end of year celebration is New Years? It's a time to remember the past year and welcome in the new one. Plus, I still think spending time with family in Summer would be better all round. A lot of people seem to be mentioning presents, I would point out that gift-giving causes a huge deadweight-loss to the economy, something to think about :lol:

Durakken, I can't figure out what you're point is. You're post is very confused, has vague 'facts', and strange causal connections. One point I would make is that celebrating the death and renewal of winter is not a particularly good reason to have a celebration in December (or June) because surviving the winter is just not that difficult anymore.

 

[bruhaha2]

The problem with associating "christmas" with christianity is that it's not... Only the name is.

In a more emotional way, I found that Dickens' A Christmas Carol shows the essence of what Christmas means in modern society. It also played wonderfully to theists in Tiny Tim's statment, "God bless us, every one," without invoking that belief is necessary.

It's the spirit of giving and good will toward your fellow man. I'm compelled to say that in this light, it's sort of depressing that Christmas does not last year round

 

[Jorick]

I am now most emphatically of the opinion that not only should we celebrate, but we must.

Two of my aunts just posted the same thing to facebook that complained of the use of the term 'holiday' as in Happy holidays for the season and claiming that the real reason for the season is of course some possibly fictitious dude's birth in a manger. Both said essentially that we're allowed to opt out only, not participate in the fun.

So I say we keep at it and drive this one to the same status as Halloween as is almost certainly natural anyhow.

Agreed. I make a point of saying 'happy holidays' to all of my religious friends just to drive the point home.

 

[Nogre]

Any secularist who wants to see the dominance of Christianity reduced in their country is working against their own goals by contributing to this perception, no matter what their justification for celebrating Christmas is.

Under this logic, we reject a whole bunch of moral teachings because Jesus is associated with them. And I don't think it's every atheist's sworn duty to oppose every religion in every form all the time. We wouldn't be able to live our lives normally and we'd have our hands tied when religion happened to get something right. In the end, Christmas encourages family time, giving, and having a good time at a time when it's not as easy to have such a great time.

 

[Aught3]

Under this logic, we reject a whole bunch of moral teachings because Jesus is associated with them. And I don't think it's every atheist's sworn duty to oppose every religion in every form all the time. We wouldn't be able to live our lives normally and we'd have our hands tied when religion happened to get something right. In the end, Christmas encourages family time, giving, and having a good time at a time when it's not as easy to have such a great time.

The only moral teachings that are associated with Christianity in the same way that Christmas is are the ten commandments. I would also say that, like Christmas, using the ten commandments would be a way of promoting Christianity. To a lesser extent, the Golden rule is also associated with Jesus but I'm not saying that we should jettison all the good aspects of a Christmas-type celebration, in fact, I've suggested several times that the good aspects should be moved to a more convenient time. What I am saying is the reason behind the celebration is the problem. Christianity is the dominant religion in our society and its adherents cause many issues. By celebrating Christmas (even a secularised version) you contribute to the over-inflated perception of this religion's dominance. Having Christianity lose some of its influence can only be a good outcome for those desiring a secular society. If the Golden rule were widely accepted only because Jesus said it, I would have a problem with it too.

 

[xman]

Hallowe'en isn't really a Christian holiday, more of a pagan one.

Just so and xtians as well as others all participate.

I make a point of saying 'happy holidays' to all of my religious friends just to drive the point home.

I do so also and have done so for decades to be inclusive. Only in recent years have the xtians started getting their knickers in a bunch.

 

[TheFearmonger]

I mean, the thing is, Christmas is a christian holiday. However, it's been inextricably tied to society, and has been propagated mainly as for kids. This is obviously 'cuz the presents. Of course, this leads to commercializing. Christmas isn't about god anymore, and the token nativity scenes don't cut it. Church attendance goes up on christmas, but that increase gets smaller every year. All the time, christmas is becoming secular. There is no way to stop it, and refusing to celebrate it on the basis of it's roots only lends credence to the religious whatnot during the season. I keep to it, because it's fun, and christians don't have a requirement to celebrate the family time, and the material possessions gained in this time. I see your argument, aught, but I fail to see the real world application. Santa is bigger than jesus now, only a few centuries after it's creation, and the number snowballs. In our lifetime, we may no longer see nativity scenes or church specials anywhere but in fundamentalist areas. So, I see no point to reverse that by superficially placing the religious requirement back on it. Tell me your thoughts, as this is a good food for thought type of deal.