Santa Calus and other imaginary characters

[Nemesiah]

To atheistic parents out there:

What do you tell your chidren about Santa Calus, The Easter Bunny, The Tooth Fairy, The Three Wise Men, etc...?

Do you create other charactes, tell them the truth, use the usual ones?

Also

How are your children treated for this (specially if told the truth)? are they bullied, excluded from the group?

Thanks!

Ed.

 

[Nashy19]

I think it depends on your child's personality.

I doubt they'll be bullied much for believing in Santa, don't most people stop once they're told? but there's more than that out there to hurt a gullible child.

 

[Laurens]

I don't have children, but if I did I would not tell them that Santa or any other fictional creation was real.

I know the consequences of telling a child that Santa is real - to make their Christmas experience a little more 'magical' - are limited. Some emotional distress might be caused, but it's hardly Earth-shattering stuff for most kids. I still think that on principle it is wrong to lie to children, no matter how inconsequential it may seem.

It's more about what it teaches the children than anything. To encourage them to believe made up stories as fact is to encourage an attitude of unthinking acceptance of authority. Really what you should be teaching them is the opposite. So I think regardless of whether it is harmful or not, as a matter or principle children should not be told that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny etc are real

 

[Nemesiah]

I think it depends on your child's personality.

I doubt they'll be bullied much for believing in Santa, don't most people stop once they're told? but there's more than that out there to hurt a gullible child.

I was thinking the oposite, what happens when your kid is the only one in kinder garden that oesnot believe in santa?

 

[Nemesiah]

I don't have children, but if I did I would not tell them that Santa or any other fictional creation was real.

I know the consequences of telling a child that Santa is real - to make their Christmas experience a little more 'magical' - are limited. Some emotional distress might be caused, but it's hardly Earth-shattering stuff for most kids. I still think that on principle it is wrong to lie to children, no matter how inconsequential it may seem.

It's more about what it teaches the children than anything. To encourage them to believe made up stories as fact is to encourage an attitude of unthinking acceptance of authority. Really what you should be teaching them is the opposite. So I think regardless of whether it is harmful or not, as a matter or principle children should not be told that Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny etc are real

I Agree

 

[Nashy19]

I was thinking the oposite, what happens when your kid is the only one in kinder garden that oesnot believe in santa?

I still think it depends on the child. The child might not believe in Santa regardless, give them a lecture on Santa being real and they'll lose a bit of respect for you, doing that is lame. They may or may not work out how to deal with their school friends. If they'll believe in Santa then it's easy just to let them, if not they could be socially awesome and impress everyone with their new found information or they might be seen as odd, the social side is separate. I don't think Santa should really be an issue, I'd focus on teaching them to be rational, although I have no idea what extent that can be taught to. Because Santa's just for fun.

 

[tuxbox]

Santa hates poor kids.

 

[Prolescum]

Children have active imaginations and rather extraordinary fantasy lives. The Santa Claus thing is so very unimportant that in the larger picture, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Laurens]

Children have active imaginations and rather extraordinary fantasy lives. The Santa Claus thing is so very unimportant that in the larger picture, it really doesn't matter.

I agree that to a degree believing in Santa doesn't matter.

However for reasons that I outlined in my first post, I think it is a matter of principle not to explicitly tell children that such an imaginary fantasy character exists in the real world regardless of the degree to which it might affect that child.

I think what we need to do is encourage them to question such ideas rather than to accept it as real just because Dad said so.

That doesn't mean Santa can't still be fun for children. My nieces were told that Santa is just an imaginary character, and they still have fun with the concept. As they do with many other fictional characters. Telling them Santa is not real doesn't detract from Christmas, and whilst telling them that he is might not have any huge detrimental effect on children, as a matter of principle I would say that it should not be done, because of the attitude that it might encourage in them, and potentially also in the parent.

If I had children I'd get them to think about why Santa is implausible, to encourage critical thinking, rather than doing the opposite.

 

[Prolescum]

Laurens,

When I said that Santa Claus was unimportant, I meant whether children believe in him or not.

As a child I learned about Santa from the television, so he was just about as real as Danger Mouse except instead of having odd and/or exciting adventures, he seemed rather enamoured with both electronic and food retail outlets. Like your nieces, it didn't matter either way. In my experience, children aren't generally interested in being "encouraged to question these ideas", as it's a few days of new toys and tons of cartoons set to the soundtrack of Cliff Richard and Noddy Holder.

I'm not arguing that we should encourage it, but it's really a wasted effort worrying about it very much.

I'm not entirely sure the OP's questions have any meaning beyond a surreptitious "oi I'm an atheist therefore every dumb tradition should be taken out back and shot" anyway.



Call me a cynic.

 

[australopithecus]

I see no harm in fostering a childhood belief in Santa. I want my kids to be skeptical critical thinkers, but not at the expense of them enjoying their youth. There is zero harm in it, and as Prole said, it is unimportant in the scheme of things. I believed in Santa, I'm not a gullible tool 20 years later.

 

[Laurens]

I see no harm in fostering a childhood belief in Santa. I want my kids to be skeptical critical thinkers, but not at the expense of them enjoying their youth. There is zero harm in it, and as Prole said, it is unimportant in the scheme of things. I believed in Santa, I'm not a gullible tool 20 years later.

I enjoyed Santa without being told he was real by my parents. Also my nieces know Santa is made up, and they still have great fun pretending at Christmas. I don't quite understand the notion that Christmas would be somehow less fun or enjoyable in the knowledge that Santa is made up.

Given that fact I see no reason to actively encourage children that he is real, it doesn't add anything, just as it doesn't add anything to a child's enjoyment of Spider-man if you convince them that he's real.

As I said, I don't think there is any harm in it for the most part, except the mild disappointment some kids go through when they realise that they had been deceived. I don't think that getting kids to understand that Santa isn't real will spoil their youth or anything, and with that in mind I don't see that there is any point in lying to them, in fact I'd say that on principle it shouldn't be done, for reasons I explained earlier.

 

[Nelipot]

Santa's part of the magic of Christmas, why take that away just to prove a point that will be lost on kids? Seems a bit churlish.

 

[Laurens]

Santa's part of the magic of Christmas, why take that away just to prove a point that will be lost on kids? Seems a bit churlish.

Santa can still be fun and part of the magic without having to convince kids that he is real.

It's not like I'd be forcing my future children to spend Christmas in a grey concrete cell with no windows, shouting at them and relentlessly crushing all their hopes and dreams... I'd just tell them straight up Santa is not real, but it is fun for people to pretend at Christmas - I don't accept for one minute that doing so would detract from their Christmas one bit.

For me it is more of a matter or integrity than of proving a point. I do not think it is acceptable to convince children that something is real when it isn't. Is the only defence people have of lying to their children that it makes their Christmas magical? Firstly I think that is bullshit, Christmas can still be fun without having to lie to kids, secondly I don't think it justifies lying even if that were the case. It probably would make a child feel consoled and happier to tell them that Grandpa is in heaven now, that does not justify telling them so.

 

[Nelipot]

So no letters to Santa, no milk and cookies left out for your kids then. Very utilitarian.

 

[UseVineWhip]

I feel it's best to do and say nothing about imaginary figure heads (unless they ask) and let the child go through and grow out of the belief altogether. This is, of course, if their belief is not warranting any questionable behavior. I don't have kids but I was once a kid and my parents never swayed me one way or the other. And I like that. I was able to pretend for a while but, when I finally asked, I was given a straight answer and it didn't destroy my childhood. And I had a lot of fun while I did believe.

So it's fine to take your kids to see Santa at the mall, but if they ask if he was the real deal, don't lie.

 

[Laurens]

So no letters to Santa, no milk and cookies left out for your kids then. Very utilitarian.

Can people please stop making the argument that Christmas would some how be ruined if we didn't actively lie to children? It's fucking ridiculous.

Do you have to lie to children about any other fictional character in order for them to be able to enjoy them, pretend and play games around them? Why does there have to be an exception when it comes to Santa? Why does it then become impossible for children to have fun if they know he's not real? It's bullshit, and a very weak defence of lying to children.

No, I would not encourage my children to write to Santa or leave cookies out for him. Would that make their Christmas any less fun? Of course it fucking wouldn't.

 

[australopithecus]

What harm, if any, would come from children being told and believing Santa is real? That's the crux of the issue for me. Harm. Where is it it? If the implication is that telling children Santa is real (and in the grand scheme of dishonesty it is rather minute) is that they will grow up into gullible tools who will believe anything then I personally reject that on the basis that it's unfounded nonsense.

I may be an atheist, but I'm not declaring all out war on faith. I see no use in declaring it a 'lie' save appealing to emotion. If that is how it is seen then sign me up. I will lie to my kids, and I'd wager you won't find a parent who hasn't.

 

[Laurens]

What harm, if any, would come from children being told and believing Santa is real? That's the crux of the issue for me. Harm. Where is it it? If the implication is that telling children Santa is real (and in the grand scheme of dishonesty it is rather minute) is that they will grow up into gullible tools who will believe anything then I personally reject that on the basis that it's unfounded nonsense.

I may be an atheist, but I'm not declaring all out war on faith. I see no use in declaring it a 'lie' save appealing to emotion. If that is how it is seen then sign me up. I will lie to my kids, and I'd wager you won't find a parent who hasn't.

I freely accept that the harm of this is minimal, as I've said from the start:

I know the consequences of telling a child that Santa is real - to make their Christmas experience a little more 'magical' - are limited. Some emotional distress might be caused, but it's hardly Earth-shattering stuff for most kids.

That being said, for me that is not the issue. There are plenty of things you could tell children are real to get them to feel better about things, and have a more magical time, I don't think the ends justify the means at all in this case. Often Santa is presented to children with the sinister undertone of 'if you're bad Santa won't bring you any presents' - which to me reeks of trying to control your kids rather than make things more magical.

And regardless of that I defy anyone to say that children could not have just as much fun at Christmas without believing in Santa. That's the thing that clinches it for me, there is no reason to tell a lie to children when it is completely unnecessary, telling the lie does not detract at all from the magic that can be had therefore it should not be done. I can imagine that in some circumstances telling lies to children might be necessary - but I think it should on principle be kept on the level of only when necessary, it is completely unnecessary to lie about Santa, and I don't see a reason to make an exception for it. So on principle I wouldn't do it, and I bet I could still put on a great Christmas for my children.

 

[Nelipot]

What harm, if any, would come from children being told and believing Santa is real? That's the crux of the issue for me. Harm. Where is it it? If the implication is that telling children Santa is real (and in the grand scheme of dishonesty it is rather minute) is that they will grow up into gullible tools who will believe anything then I personally reject that on the basis that it's unfounded nonsense.

I will lie to my kids, and I'd wager you won't find a parent who hasn't.

Exactly because being a parent calls for all kinds of compromises; easy to state how you'd be when you don't have kids to deal with. They have a way of turning the world on its head. If we presented our kids with the truth and only the truth about the world then they'd be faced at too young an age with things they don't have the mechanisms to deal with. As parents we shield our kids and if that includes white lies that's fine by my conscience.