/retry New World Order discussion.

[Marcus]

A very unpopular republican president was what the democratic party needed to take the next election. Bush did what he intended to do, his work as president is over so now he can concentrate on his fathers oil company. And public opinion is just what they need it to be.

So GWB was a complete dickwad on purpose because he actually wanted the Democratic party to win the next presidential election? Or are you saying he wanted them to win, but only so they could start the imposition of more government control, rendering themselves unpopular again so the Republicans could take control and use the new power structures for their own gain? Maybe that's why he engineered a massive recession to occur just as his term ended, to make the Dems more unpopular as they ruled over a poorer America. Yeah, that's it.

 

[sleepychild]

So GWB was a complete dickwad on purpose because he actually wanted the Democratic party to win the next presidential election? Or are you saying he wanted them to win, but only so they could start the imposition of more government control, rendering themselves unpopular again so the Republicans could take control and use the new power structures for their own gain? Maybe that's why he engineered a massive recession to occur just as his term ended, to make the Dems more unpopular as they ruled over a poorer America. Yeah, that's it.

No, that is not it. GWB is as big of a dickwad as HWB or PB. These people rule you, they own you. Thinking these people are dickwads is absurd. GWB has a problem whit operating under pressure and is half the liar Obama is. And that's all. And where did the recession come from and what purpose did it serve. The fed stole 13 trillion and counting. You have the stimulus package, cap and trade. All the government's doing and qui bono. In the middle of the recession a bankrupt bank goldmansachs deemed too big to fail got so much money that it started buying off other struggling banks. GM got taken by the government. While people are loosing their homes Obama consolidates power in the hands of the good old boys. Presidential candidate says change and criticizes his predecessor. He takes the election and it is business as usual. Obama made a u turn and now follows in Bush's foot steps. There is no left or right. They are on the same F*** team. They are not fighting against each other.

 

[Finger]

There is no left or right. They are on the same F*** team. They are not fighting against each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

 

[sleepychild]

An important feature of paranoid thinking is its centrality: that the paranoid person perceives themselves as central figures in an experienced scenario which may be either dangerous (persecutory) or self-exalting (grandiose) and interprets events which have no reference to them in reality as directed at or about them.

Paranoia doesn't fit. Maybe we need a new word for it. If I was to say the global elite is tying to kill me personally because I am me, it would be paranoia. This is conspiranoia. Probably mostly irrational concern (I feel no fear) that the global elite is changing the world into a global fascist dictatorship.

 

[Shapeshifter]

it includes the 9-11 conspiracy theory. Now, disbelief in such a conspiracy is purely skepticism, or I have yet to see any evidence against it.

God exists. Now, disbelief in him is purely skepticism, or I have yet to see any evidence against it.


Right... >.>

 

[sleepychild]

Somebody need to close the religion chapter of human history. After the dark ages and the holy inquisition and Zbigniew Brzezinski's jihad. I think we had enough of religion. And before somebody accuses me of being sane I will add that we have had enough of big governments, banks and media. For all the power we give to those institutions the results suck donkey balls big time and we literally don't need them.

I am the all powerful Conspiranoid. Bow down before me or feel my bullshit.

 

[sleepychild]

The NWO theory makes predictions about a lot of things and come to think of it conspiracy theorists have always made such predictions.

I remember hearing many of the NWO conspiracy theory's so-called predictions before and after 9/11. People like Alex Jones publicly announced in advance that they would regard any terrorist attack against the US as a staged "false flag" operation. They call this a "prediction," evidently not understanding what the word even means. But if any claims they made could even qualify as a prediction, among them would be their claims that martial law would be declared all civil liberties suspended in the wake of a terrorist attack. This never happened. I also remember hearing a lot about some mandatory US national ID card that was suppose to take effect in 2008. That too never happened. The NWO conspiracy theorists are always claiming that an Orwellian future is "just around the corner." But even though they've been saying this since the 70s, it never manages to happen.

In two words, to control the middle east you need Iran. So if they are a coherent group trying to take over the world one of two things will happen. Iran will change course or it will be leveled to the ground like Iraq and Afghanistan. Im not saying any events in the region could be evident of anything. But I don't believe in the roll of the dice and I am still waiting for WMD's to be found in Iraq.

Even if it were true that Iran was some sort of key to controlling the middle east, your "prediction" ignores the fact that Iran is a theocracy. It ignores the fact that its president is an irrational, authoritarian with no respect for civil government or the rights of his people. It ignores the fact that they have cut themselves off from diplomatic relations with the western world. And it thus ignores the possibility that Iran could be a legitimate threat to the western world and that we may be justified in trying to keep Ahmadinejad from developing nuclear technology. Your chosen facts are so narrow, that your theory is equally as narrow.

As for WMDs in Iraq.. If this NWO is so powerful that its able to organize and carry out every major terrorist attack of this decade in secret, why did it have such a hard time planting WMDs on Saddam? And for that matter, why couldn't they construct a link between Saddam and Al Qaeda? You seem to forget that it was the 9/11 commission that questioned the Bush administration's intelligence on these issues and it was the mainstream media that reported it to the American people eventually leading to what was the most unpopular administration since Nixon. If this was the plan, it was a terrible plan.

Iran is the last powerful independent oil rich country in the region. And it is right between Iraq and Afghanistan. You can't build a middle east superstate whit out it. And you are beyond brainwashed. You can't call yourself a free thinking person while conforming whit the media western civilization nuclear double standard. If Iran wants to develop power stations it has the right to. If Iran want's nuclear weapons it has the right to.It actually needs to, for deterrence against the US. As far as Iran complies whit the international nuclear proliferation treaty. Do you know who should be a concern? Israel. Who kills more of his citizens? Iran or Israel? So what about human rights? The only crime here is that the US is playing world police and favorites at the same time. Everybody thinks Ahmadinejad stole the election but polls before the election showed the same results. Do you know who steals elections, Bush. As for Iran being a theocracy... Is pure democracy better? The only narrow thing is the view of the world that you take word for word directly from CNN. Do you think that an invasion by the US is going to fix a screwed up nation like that. Do you think that an invasion by the US is going to make things better. Do you condone it. I have a new prediction. A nuke blows up in Israel or the US. Iranian extremist or the Iranian government is blamed. War on Iran, Ahmadinejad gets the rope. And we argue who did it while the US makes a F load of money from oil, building and security contracts.

 

[Finger]

And you are beyond brainwashed.

Pot calling the kettle black. Nearly everything you've spouted is based so firmly in disinformative bullshit that it is impossible to know where to start.

Everybody thinks Ahmadinejad stole the election but polls before the election showed the same results.

No they don't. Polls before and after the election showed that Ahmadinejad still would have won, but by a smaller margin than the actual election results. Even if he did steal votes, he didn't have to. But at this point, election fraud is no longer the issue. Instead of addressing and dispelling the accusations by issuing a recount, the Iranian government opted to suppress the protests by force. Are you, a NWO conspiracy theorist and free speech advocate, going to sit there and condone Iran's violent suppression of its own people's right to speak freely? Are you that much of a hypocrite?

As for Iran being a theocracy... Is pure democracy better?

No. Pure democracy is never good. Why are there only extremes with you? If Iran were a pure democracy right now, it would still elect a theocratic government. What Iran (and in my opinion, all countries) need is a secular democratic republic. A government that protects the rights of the people and is accountable to them. In common vernacular, people typically call this type of government a "democracy" even though that isn't technically true.

The only narrow thing is the view of the world that you take word for word directly from CNN.

Ha ha! I don't have cable TV. And even when I did I never watched CNN, nor any other cable news show. But while we're on this subject, what would you consider a good source for news?

Do you think that an invasion by the US is going to fix a screwed up nation like that. Do you think that an invasion by the US is going to make things better. Do you condone it.

No, no, and no. From the looks of things, Iran may be on its way to fixing itself. Even though supporters of a secular government are still a minority there, they are growing. Especially in the wake of these recent protests. A secular democratic government springing up from within is the ideal solution for all "screwed up nations."

I have a new prediction. A nuke blows up in Israel or the US. Iranian extremist or the Iranian government is blamed. War on Iran, Ahmadinejad gets the rope. And we argue who did it while the US makes a F load of money from oil, building and security contracts.

Its no secret that Muslim extremists hate Isriel. Its also no secret that they want nuclear weapons. Extremist leaders have regularly and publicly announced that nuclear weapons should be sought by every Muslim nation for the specific purpose of attacking Israel and its allies. What you're saying here is that if they ever actually succeeded in this goal, you would automatically blame the US government without question. If you can't see how bias that is, then you have no business even calling yourself a "free thinker."

 

[sleepychild]

http://forums.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2069

 

[sleepychild]

Finger, do you remember this?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,50288,00.html

Now see this.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/17/venezuela

I will get back to Iran but I have a point to make so tell me what you think?

 

[Finger]

Congratulations, you've demostrated how bias Fox News is. We all already knew that. You do know that your article is an editorial, right? An opinion piece. And I actually checked up on a few of Palast's accusations and they don't really check out. Neither the New York Times nor the Independent describes Chavez's return as "dictatorial" or "unpopular". In fact they spell out quite clearly that populous was demanding his return and played a deciding roll in the counter-coup. Both articles refer to the accusations that Chavez ordered the shootings as just that, accusations. The only subjective language I see is in the guardian editorial that you linked.

 

[darthrender2010]

Finger, do you remember this?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,50288,00.html

Now see this.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/apr/17/venezuela

I will get back to Iran but I have a point to make so tell me what you think?

fail?

 

[Finger]

fail?

fail.

 

[sleepychild]

Try this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1781402.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/14/world/venezuela-s-currency-plunges-19-as-controls-are-removed.html

 

[nemesiss]

there is always one thing that has puzzled me in regards to the kind of conspiracy theories mentioned.

why is it that the United States of America is always central in those plans?

why not not russia, or china or even india?
what are all the so-called predictions that have been made, not only those who are claimed to be true?
Not even all predictions of nostradamus were correct.
if the person(s) coming up with these predictions were so factually correct, they should claim the 1million dollar price of James Randi.

perhaps this has to do with the fact that the american humans have little faith in their own elected goverment institute...?

 

[sleepychild]

Mistrust in the government is not a right for a citizen, it is a duty. And the geopolitical climate together whit the fact that the officials explanations for their poor performance is awkward at best fuels the fire of mistrust to the point that it reaches hatred. Plus logical thinking and past experiences show that profit organized societies (capitalism), given enough time reach fascism. And the US is not as central as you think. There are claims associated to the conspiracy theory that the Bush family is part of the british royal family. And it all originates by the same family which was in power in germany since before WWI and still is. Why do the communists in china oppose christianity? Was the Stalin rule over Russia a conspiracy gone wrong. Hitler made a conspiracy to invade Poland. I already said it once and I will say it again. This is how this works, this is what they do. And it is not because they are evil nor is it evident of a conspiracy (or a coincidence). There is one saying "Money makes the world go round."! We have capitalism which should be recognized as the early stage of fascism. And we have socialism which is unfortunately associated in the people psychic whit totalitarianism. And we are at the point where capitalism is about to fail and show its totalitarian face.

Try this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1781402.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/14/world/venezuela-s-currency-plunges-19-as-controls-are-removed.html

Finger, Im still waiting for the comment!

I like what David Icke has to say!
http://forums.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2069

 

[nemesiss]

its our duty to mistrust the goverment.....?
so basically, we should not trust an institution that we have given power to take actions for us, for our own benefit?
sorry to say, but sound too silly for me.

if you would have said;

"it is our responsability to remain skeptic towards the actions that the goverment institute so that their actions reflect our best interest"

i would not look at your post with an ackward eye.



"the geopolitical climate together whit the fact that the officials explanations for their poor performance is awkward at best fuels the fire of mistrust to the point that it reaches hatred. "



that is quite a negative view on your own goverment, im pretty sure they have done something correct?
a better question for yourself would be "what have you done so far to improve your goverment?"
or perhaps even better question "what are you plans to improve your goverment?"



"Plus logical thinking and past experiences show that profit organized societies (capitalism), given enough time reach fascism"



"hearing the clock, but not knowing where the bell hangs"
corporations/organizations/companies main priority is NOT to make profit, its to sustain itself. hence why their are non-profit organizations.
the most effective way to (self)sustain is to make profit.
this regards the field of accountancy, where the total of debit and the total of credit are to be the same. when they are not the same either there is a mistake made or cut have to be made.
under debit falls; own income, loans donations, and that 5 dollar bill you found on the street, etc.
under credit falls: bills, money send to saving account, rent, loans being paid off, etc... and also PROFIT!

this just a small intro to accountancy and others here can tell more in details what accountancy is... and perhaps a book about it is even better.
it may be boring, but it is very useful, especially who have financial issues.

 

[sleepychild]

In a growing economy your company needs to grow at the same rate. Otherwise you are not sustaining yourself, you are shrinking. Successful profit organizations grow faster then the economy. Given enough time they become bigger then the government. Which leads to fascism.

Yes It is our duty to mistrust the government. For the power the government is given it needs to be as transparent as possible. It needs to be scrutinized over and over and over. It need's to be as crystal clear as possible for everything it does, and more importantly how and why it does it. And Half ass BS like the NIST and the 9/11 and the warren reports just don't cut it.

 

[Finger]

Try this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1781402.stm
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/14/world/venezuela-s-currency-plunges-19-as-controls-are-removed.html

Finger, Im still waiting for the comment!

Not really sure how those articles are suppose to relate to your argument. They were each written one to two months before Chavez's forced resignation and his subsequent counter-coup.

I like what David Icke has to say!
http://forums.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2069

I don't really care. And apparently, neither does anyone else.

 

[sleepychild]