Pirate Party UK

[ImprobableJoe]

You get paid according to the time and work you put in when it's physical. Hardly comparable to having an idea for one second and then receive royalty for the rest of your life without ever lifting a finger.

So, you get to decide from the outside whether someone worked hard enough to determine whether or not it is acceptable to steal their work?

It would be stupid to deny the artists money for their efforts, but there are alternatives to the current primitive music industry. Do I even have to mention the numerous successful (and filthy rich) artists that promote and use file sharing to their advantage. How are they managing? It shouldn't be possible with all these bloody thieves stealing their music and not paying for it in your world, yet it is.

That's not a relevant point. If someone decides to follow a failed financial strategy, it isn't for you to dismiss it and steal their work.

Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense. I can almost envision an incident where that could happen.

"I read the e-book you gave me the other night, and I didn't really like it. Here you can have it back... What do you mean I can't return the experience and information that exist in my head? Take it back this instant!"

It isn't about "need" since we're talking about entertainment... and you're specifically advocating stealing entertainment. Why are you so important and special, that you don't need to pay people for their creative work?

Can't you at least admit that copyright laws many times hinder progress regarding medicine, software development and other modern branches of technology all over the world?

I don't have to "admit" anything, especially since we're mostly talking about entertainment here. In ALL cases, people who create things have a right to profit from their creative efforts. I'm sorry that you don't agree, and I hope you never have to count on a paycheck to pay bills and then have someone steal your work.

 

[Möbiµs]

So, you get to decide from the outside whether someone worked hard enough to determine whether or not it is acceptable to steal their work?

I'm not claiming anything of the like, just pointing out the absurdity in "owning information".

That's not a relevant point. If someone decides to follow a failed financial strategy, it isn't for you to dismiss it and steal their work.

Fair enough. I can choose not to take part in their little circle jerk, that is one of the pillars of capitalism after all. Although I will still share as much as I can, and it won't affect my conscience even the slightest, since I don't think that you can have possession of a sentence or a certain composition of chords! We will just have to disagree on this matter.

I don't have to "admit" anything, especially since we're mostly talking about entertainment here.

No one has decided what the contents will or will not be in this thread; you chose to limit yourself to the entertainment part of the discussion.

In ALL cases, people who create things have a right to profit from their creative efforts. I'm sorry that you don't agree, and I hope you never have to count on a paycheck to pay bills and then have someone steal your work.

Are you implying that the artists have a hard time coping with their expenses? That would be humorous indeed. Poor Britney, I hope she has health insurance coverage.

I'm off to sleep, but I check in first thing in the morning. Good night.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I'm not claiming anything of the like, just pointing out the absurdity in "owning information".

There's nothing at all absurd about it. Try again.

Fair enough. I can choose not to take part in their little circle jerk, that is one of the pillars of capitalism after all. Although I will still share as much as I can, and it won't affect my conscience even the slightest, since I don't think that you can have possession of a sentence or a certain composition of chords! We will just have to disagree on this matter.

The point I made earlier is that you have an absolute right not to take part in the "circle jerk"... but you also have NO right to partake in the result. If you think record companies are assholes, don't give them your money. Also, DON'T STEAL THEIR PRODUCTS!

No one has decided what the contents will or will not be in this thread; you chose to limit yourself to the entertainment part of the discussion.

Not me... that has been the general direction.

Are you implying that the artists have a hard time coping with their expenses? That would be humorous indeed. Poor Britney, I hope she has health insurance coverage.

Your comment seems to imply that stealing from rich people is somehow not a crime, when stealing from poor people is? Try again, with some clarity? I'm sure a night's sleep will help with that.

 

[ahdkaw]

Wow, in iJoes little world backing up your own property is now theft.

Changed my mind on leaving, for now.

ahdkaw
Proud Card-Carrying Member of The Pirate Party UK

PS: So what's your solution iJoe? Throw everyone in jail? Shut down the Internet? Stop the selling of cassette recorders, video recorders, CD burners, DVD writers? Yeah, very forward-thinking.

 

[Möbiµs]

Good morning.

There's nothing at all absurd about it. Try again.

Careful now, you forgot the ,© sign after "try again". Don't want anyone suing you for your life savings because of it.

The point I made earlier is that you have an absolute right not to take part in the "circle jerk"... but you also have NO right to partake in the result. If you think record companies are assholes, don't give them your money. Also, DON'T STEAL THEIR PRODUCTS!

It's not stealing in my world and the only reasons for it to be considered as such, are the unjust laws behind it. As a law abiding citizen, I utilise our democracy and vote to change these laws. If you don't like The Pirate Party's programme, vote for something else and stop complaining.

Your comment seems to imply that stealing from rich people is somehow not a crime, when stealing from poor people is? Try again, with some clarity? I'm sure a night's sleep will help with that.

No, my comment was a response to you pulling the "artists being too broke to pay their bills"-card:

I'm sorry that you don't agree, and I hope you never have to count on a paycheck to pay bills and then have someone steal your work.

Stop comparing actual labour to "made up, immaterial" property. You're not winning any moral ground in my book.

 

[ahdkaw]

Good morning.

Mornin'.

It's not stealing in my world and the only reasons for it to be considered as such, are the unjust laws behind it. As a law abiding citizen, I utilise our democracy and vote to change these laws. If you don't like The Pirate Party's programme, vote for something else and stop complaining.

Hear hear!

 

[Möbiµs]

LMAO! Noticed the cognitive dissonance in my earlier post regarding law abidance and piracy.

Let's just say that I will fight for a change of these laws and if I chose to follow them or not is another matter. Does that make me a criminal? Fine with me. If Rosa Parks didn't mind, neither will I.

 

[Möbiµs]

Good news everyone!

According to a new survey, the PP might get two Swedish seats in Brussels and Strassburg. As long as they keep their current streak of 8.2%.

 

[ahdkaw]

Good news everyone!

According to a new survey, the PP might get two Swedish seats in Brussels and Strassburg. As long as they keep their current streak of 8.2%.

Excellent news! Thanks for that, going over to TorrentFreak now (huh, no point, they haven't posted anything about it (yet)).

Unrelated to previous post, but worth mentioning:
Pirate Bay Judge Indeed Handpicked

 

[Möbiµs]

Excellent news! Thanks for that, going over to TorrentFreak now (huh, no point, they haven't posted anything about it (yet)).

It's pretty fresh news from a Swedish newspaper. I'll update you whenever I get more info. Besides, it will all be decided on the 7th of June, so we don't want to keep our hopes up too early.

 

[COMMUNIST FLISK]

surely the pirate party sounds bad?

they should be renamed to SILP - the Sharing Is Legal Party

 

[Tsunamie]

ImprobableJoe - Sorry was busy with other things and just clocked back in to find 20 more posts since I last posted.

I will list a couple of negative things that occur because of copyright and patent law.

1 > Monopoly of entire industries
a> Which in turn causes human suffering
b> Allows obscene abuse of power
c> Spreads stupidity
2> Slow down human development
a> By slowing down technological needs
b> By decreases cultural diversity
c> By allowing dis information to occur because the controller of the monopoly does not care if the information is true. Simply that it serves the purpose to increase personal gain for the controller.

So in short Joe, your UN willingness to watch the video that explains some of the core arguments that distribution companies are lies. You stated that it does not matter that piracy actually helps small time artists to beat mass publicized one (well the small time artists care and fight for it).

In one of Obama's speeches, he clearly states that there is a need for patent reform in America. The fact of the matter is he knows that the patent system that America currently enforces is slowly choking American ingenuity and killing off start up companies in the blue chip industry. Simply because algorithms or entire stands of DNA are patent.

You essentially have a rat race to patent anything to force others to pay for the little bit you know. You don't even have to do anything constructive with your knowledge, just have it. I have not even gone into the privacy laws and the free speech arguments. I think I will leave it for now and see what your reply is.

I am however just tired of the fact that I get shit shoved down my thought produced in California. I think they should pay me for the amount of hours of my life wasted because of misleading advertisement.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

LMAO! Noticed the cognitive dissonance in my earlier post regarding law abidance and piracy.

Let's just say that I will fight for a change of these laws and if I chose to follow them or not is another matter. Does that make me a criminal? Fine with me. If Rosa Parks didn't mind, neither will I.

Yeah, because fighting for civil rights is just like fighting to steal movies and songs... do you folks ever listen to yourselves? :lol:

 

[ahdkaw]

Just had a quick thought, have you noticed how piracy has already changed the way TV producers do business.

No more are rules enforced by producers to stop a show from being transmitted outside the country of origin until at least a year or two after initial release. Heroes is a good case in point here. When the cast of Heroes visited Europe for the first time, they were mobbed by fans. Which is odd because Heroes had not been officially released in Europe at the time. After that, the TV broadcasters in Europe paid to show Heroes, and it is now one of the highest-rated TV show from the US in a long time.

Also, if because I watch a movie for free makes me a criminal then by that argument whenever we watch commercial TV channels we are breaking the law. But no we're not are we? Because it's funded by advertisers.

Yet by paying my TV licence I am legal? And where do we draw the line with BBC programmes? I have already paid for what they produce, and hence have the right to download and watch any BBC programme ever made. Oh and the BBC iPlayer allows you to do this. Is this still theft? No, because the BBC is publicly owned. I am also more than happy to allow non-UK citizens of the world to download and watch BBC programmes for free (yes! for free!).

 

[Möbiµs]

Yeah, because fighting for civil rights is just like fighting to steal movies and songs... do you folks ever listen to yourselves? :lol:

You chose yet again to limit everything only to pirating movies and songs. Have you ever taken anything seriously in your life, or are you born with taking things in stride?

 

[ahdkaw]

Also according to this twisted logic, if I intentionally and purposefully stood outside a paid music festival, without paying, and listened to the music, I am breaking the law.

 

[Möbiµs]

Also according to this twisted logic, if I intentionally and purposefully stood outside a paid music festival, without paying, and listened to the music, I am breaking the law.

How DARE you let your ears steal the audible frequencies that the speakers are sending out?! Close your ears you filthy thief!

 

[ahdkaw]

How DARE you let your ears steal the audible frequencies that the speakers are sending out?! Close your ears you filthy thief!

There is a way around this of course, you could provide the Police with a large number of earplugs and have them forcibly insert them into the ears of anyone nearby.

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

since I don't think that you can have possession of a sentence or a certain composition of chords! We will just have to disagree on this matter.

It doesn't really matter what you think. You can certainly possess a certain composition of chords or words. Copying constructions of these things that other people have created and then copyrighted is plagiarism and theft and so on. It makes no difference if you have an idealistic notion that, because words and chords exist outside copyright, therefore constructions OF words and chords are outside copyright. They aren't.

Interesting example: The guitarist Steve Vai wrote a piece of music called "Bangkok" then discovered that he'd actually worked from a transcript of an old Bjorn-from-ABBA song that he'd made some years previously then forgotten about. With the record already completed, he had to scramble to get permission to use Bjorn's music in the release. Fortunately Bjorn was nice about it, and the information merely had to be changed to "written by Bjorn".

This is why lyrics from songs quoted in books tend to have a "used by permission" link somewhere. Your argument is like saying that, because colours can't be possessed, configurations of these colours into artwork can't be possessed either.

I don't know if you're any kind of artist or writer, but it would gall me something rotten if I found someone had used music I'd written and passed it off as their own. A piece of music I spent a lot of time and effort on, stolen.

And even if you don't personally agree with it, it's still the law. Copyrighted music or writings cannot be reproduced without permission.

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

Also according to this twisted logic, if I intentionally and purposefully stood outside a paid music festival, without paying, and listened to the music, I am breaking the law.

Quoting extreme examples doesn't really negate the original point.