Pirate Party UK

[Tsunamie]

Hi everyone I am mainly here for the UK based people who feel copy right (DMCA) and Patent law is wrong. We are currently moving into the stage of becoming official party and would like to find others who share our cause.

http://Www.pirateparty.org.uk

People familiar with the DMCA/patent law as well as the UK law loved at this point in time.

IF your interested in the fight against copyright and patent law and want to find the Pirate Party in your nation. Just go to http://www.pp-international.net/ and all the nations are listed as well as their contact details.

IF it was inappropriate of me to post this call to arms here. Send me a private message letting me know and feel free to delete this.

Example of somehing problomatic -

http://dmca.cs.washington.edu/

 

[Möbiµs]

I'm voting for PP here in Sweden. Can't speak on behalf of the brits, but I think you should go for it. You would be foolish not to ride the current populist wave and hopefully you will snatch some voters from the BNP.

 

[ahdkaw]

I would definitely vote the Pirate Party, but they aren't standing in my area.

But I must admit, it's nice to see the UK Pirate Party website up and running at last. I've been watching that domain for bloody ages now.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Ummm... how are you going to convince people that you aren't a bunch of terrible, spoiled people with no sense of decency? Or is being malign parasitic scumbags part of the party platform?

 

[ahdkaw]

Ummm... how are you going to convince people that you aren't a bunch of terrible, spoiled people with no sense of decency? Or is being malign parasitic scumbags part of the party platform?

Tsk tsk now, iJoe. That's no way to start an argument.

Clearly you have no understanding of digital media or the world we now exist in and have done for the last 10 years. Just because you can't get your head around the studies that have shown repeatedly that piracy has been shown to improve sales, doesn't mean it's not true. Clearly, evidence, in this case, is of no concern to you, so it's better (and easier) to just insult people with banal wordage.

And please don't hassle me about links and suchforth, there is google just around the corner awaiting your keywords.

 

[Josan]

Clearly you have no understanding of digital media or the world we now exist in and have done for the last 10 years. Just because you can't get your head around the studies that have shown repeatedly that piracy has been shown to improve sales, doesn't mean it's not true. Clearly, evidence, in this case, is of no concern to you, so it's better (and easier) to just insult people with banal wordage.

Sources please?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Tsk tsk now, iJoe. That's no way to start an argument.

Clearly you have no understanding of digital media or the world we now exist in and have done for the last 10 years. Just because you can't get your head around the studies that have shown repeatedly that piracy has been shown to improve sales, doesn't mean it's not true. Clearly, evidence, in this case, is of no concern to you, so it's better (and easier) to just insult people with banal wordage.

And please don't hassle me about links and suchforth, there is google just around the corner awaiting your keywords.

Right... because if your work is in a digital medium, clearly you don't deserve to get paid for it. Horseshit, plain and simple. Over the past ten years, spoiled rotten brats have gotten the deluded notion that they should get things for free, just because they CAN.

You can whine about my "tone," but you have nothing else to defend what certainly appears to be theft, can you?

Please, explain to me why you have a right to the fruits of someone else's labor without having to pay for it?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Sources please?

Why cite sources? people just DESERVE to steal the intellectual property of others. Further, if doesn't matter if piracy improves sales... you don't get to choose for other people what their business model should be.

I want to take all these digital pirates, and put them to hard labor, and at the end of the day give their pay to random people passing by... just to see how much THEY like it.

 

[GoodKat]

Sources please?

http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/ippd-dppi.nsf/eng/h_ip01456.html

 

[ahdkaw]

Right... because if your work is in a digital medium, clearly you don't deserve to get paid for it. Horseshit, plain and simple. Over the past ten years, spoiled rotten brats have gotten the deluded notion that they should get things for free, just because they CAN.

You can whine about my "tone," but you have nothing else to defend what certainly appears to be theft, can you?

Please, explain to me why you have a right to the fruits of someone else's labor without having to pay for it?

Bullshit of the highest order.

Here, I have removed my edit from my above post, because it covers exactly what you said above (funny how I knew you would play this particular card).


One more thing, as a proponent for the copyleft movement, I find your platitudes simple in their construct. Do you even consider that you may well be tarring the Open Source community with the same brush? Open Sourcers are scumbags too eh? How dare they work hard on something and not want monetary compensation for it?!

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Rubbish.

Here, I have removed my edit from my above post, because it covers exactly what you said above (funny how I knew you would play this particular card).


One more thing, as a proponent for the copyleft movement, I find your platitudes simple in their construct. Do you even consider that you may well be tarring the Open Source community with the same brush? Open Sourcers are scumbags too eh? How dare they work hard on something and not want monetary compensation for it?!

So, you don't have a position at all that you are willing to defend, or are you simply unwilling to try to explain? Afraid, maybe?

Please, for the love of Satan, prove me wrong if you're so sure of yourself!

Open Source doesn't count, because they CHOOSE to share. You are saying that no one should have any choice, that everything should be free because you don't feel obligated to pay for it.

Let me ask you: have you ever had a job? Have you ever depended on that job to pay your rent, feed your family, buy medicine?

 

[ahdkaw]

Okay, you are going around in circles now, and if you think Open Source has no place in the discussion then you are wrong.

I am not trying to defend theft, how can one do that? I am defending 'sharing'. Have you ever recorded a radio show onto cassette? Ever made a mix tape for friends? Then you are a thief.

At least, according to the RIAA (who choose to waste artists money on unwinnable court cases on the flimsiest of evidence on the hope that the defendent will be crushed under the huge financial burden), you are. Remember the old couple who were sued in the US for downloading some game? A game they had never heard of?

Put it this way, according to evidence gathered by the RIAA you are guilty of copyright infringement probably many times over. Why? Simple, their evidence is based on screenshots of BitTorrent swarms which contain the IP addresses of the people sharing. So far so good yes? How are you personally implicated? Because most trackers these days inject false IP addresses into the swarm. Then just for good measure, let's throw in the unsecured wireless networks too.

So, will you bend over when the RIAA come your way? Will you be able to afford the huge legal costs and potential damage to your character this could do?

The point here is that piracy CANNOT be stopped, it's been around for not just the last ten years I previously mentioned, but for many many decades. When the printing press was invented, the Church attempted to control the publication of books. It wasn't until the 'pirate publishers' came along and risked their lives to get these books out, the control was finally wrested away from the church.

The old model has changed, it's not the pirates fault that the industries didn't want to lose control of their distribution model, hence saving consumers millions in overpriced media. Also, let's just note here that product placement in movies are now rife, and this is likely to be the future of paying for movie production. And perhaps, those overpaid, fat, greedy american actors could take a pay cut? Ever wondered why there is currently a "Brit Invasion" in American movies? Because they're good at acting and they don't make the same outrageous demands of big American 'stars'.

PS: Satan said to not drag him into this whole sorry mess.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Okay, you are going around in circles now, and if you think Open Source has no place in the discussion then you are wrong.

I am not trying to defend theft, how can one do that? I am defending 'sharing'. Have you ever recorded a radio show onto cassette? Ever made a mix tape for friends? Then you are a thief.

At least, according to the RIAA (who choose to waste artists money on unwinnable court cases on the flimsiest of evidence on the hope that the defendent will be crushed under the huge financial burden), you are. Remember the old couple who were sued in the US for downloading some game? A game they had never heard of?

Put it this way, according to evidence gathered by the RIAA you are guilty of copyright infringement probably many times over. Why? Simple, their evidence is based on screenshots of BitTorrent swarms which contain the IP addresses of the people sharing. So far so good yes? How are you personally implicated? Because most trackers these days inject false IP addresses into the swarm. Then just for good measure, let's throw in the unsecured wireless networks too.

So, will you bend over when the RIAA come your way? Will you be able to afford the huge legal costs and potential damage to your character this could do?

The point here is that piracy CANNOT be stopped, it's been around for not just the last ten years I previously mentioned, but for many many decades. When the printing press was invented, the Church attempted to control the publication of books. It wasn't until the 'pirate publishers' came along and risked their lives to get these books out, the control was finally wrested away from the church.

The old model has changed, it's not the pirates fault that the industries didn't want to lose control of their distribution model, hence saving consumers millions in overpriced media. Also, let's just note here that product placement in movies are now rife, and this is likely to be the future of paying for movie production. And perhaps, those overpaid, fat, greedy american actors could take a pay cut? Ever wondered why there is currently a "Brit Invasion" in American movies? Because they're good at acting and they don't make the same outrageous demands of big American 'stars'.

PS: Satan said to not drag him into this whole sorry mess.

So, you don't have a legitimate position besides "piracy can't be stopped, The Man(RIAA) is a big meanie, and people shouldn't be paid for their hard work."

You haven't said anything that conflicts with my initial view of the thuggery and theft of piracy. You didn't even try.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Here's something else: I'm no fan of big business. I'm all for Open Source whatever. I download free stuff all the time, when it is offered to me for free. If you don't agree with the prices of movie tickets, CDs, DVDs, or video games by all means don't buy them!

... but that also means that you have ZERO right to enjoy those things. Part of taking a principled stance against things you disagree with is to actually be PRINCIPLED. If you hate Microsoft you should buy a Mac, or use an Open Source operating system, not use a pirated copy of Windows. If you can't stand the price of a CD, don't buy them, and listen to music by way of Pandora. If you don't want to buy a DVD or see a movie, rent them or wait until they are on TV for free. There are lots of ways to enjoy things without being a thief, which also means there's no justification for it as far as I can see.

I don't believe in Walmart's business practices, so I avoid shopping there. I don't go into Walmart and shoplift.

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

I have to say that, whilst I may have a few things I got without paying for on my drive, I know I would have NO legal recourse should someone decide to raid my house. I would have no argument at all beyond some vague nonsense about "You can't stop the signal." I'm with Joe, how can you defend it? Downloading for free what you previously would have had to buy in a physical sense is theft.

And why are a lot of people doing it? Is it because it's somehow "right" for a shitload of people to avoid paying for stuff? No, it's because a lot of people CAN, very easily, without being easily traced or caught.

Should there arise some means by which people can beat someone up without being caught, I'm sure violence would rise drastically. That wouldn't legitimise the crime in the first place.

 

[COMMUNIST FLISK]

i buy most of my music/dvd's etc. its only very hard to get things/things you cant buy in the uk that i download. for the simple reason i refuse to pay like ,£30 just for one cd to be shipped from wherever, its not right. i do think digital media is too overpriced though

 

[ahdkaw]

Thuggery lol, I can't believe this rubbish. I am NOT the defender of Piracy. I really don't give two shits TBH.

There are many types of piracy, but you prefer to lump them all into one easy to access jar.

The fact of the matter is that, yes there are those who download movies, games, books, music, whatever day in day out. However the majority of these people are not burning them to CD/DVD/BluRay and selling them down the market for a fiver (which as far as I'm concerned deserve nothing more that jail as they are profitting from this trade). No, there are actually people out there that download then watch/listen/read and then delete, this could very well be classed as Fair Use.

But you can't seem to make the leap from cassettes and videos to digital media. It's the same game being played as was in the 80's. Remember the anti-video recorder campaign? The anti-cassette campaign (tapes are killing music)? Funny how after they were defeated in the courts, the music and movie industries actually made more money than ever before.

And what's their new line of attack? "Piracy is killing the movie/music industry." This is a lie, the same lie used in the '80s. They may be seeing a drop in sales, but there is also a drectly-correllated increase in sales for games (a relatively new and highly profitable area). There is only so much a person can spend on entertainment, and when a game costs ,£40 it's no surprise that movie/music sales have taken a hit.

What you seem to think is that by downloading something on the internet is illegal. Well that's fine, as long as you are happy to accept the consequences on an open and free Internet. Better to censor the world than to look for ways of monetising this "new" medium.

Let's just give you a link to help you chew the fat a bit more:

http://www.stealthisfilm.com/Part2/

Even Microsoft are against piracy, which is odd, because in the early days of Windows, piracy is what took them to the top.

PS: Without piracy my record collection would remain unlistened to for 15 years. But thankfully I can download what I have already bought and not have to wreck my vinyl or spend a ton of money on a new record deck. Also, without piracy how would we get a hold of 'deleted works'? They're certainly not for sale. And then what about all these cases of 'piracy' where a TV show which has been deleted have been able to rise from the dead and provide pleasure to millions of people who otherwise would have never experienced them (including TV channels who then re-broadcast this pirated material)?

 

[COMMUNIST FLISK]

also, the shops cant decide wat price to pu thier games. its just crazy

 

[ahdkaw]

also, the shops cant decide wat price to pu thier games. its just crazy

Indeed.

And then we could go into how the industries are punishing legitimate customers with schemes such DRM, the Sony Rootkit debacle, unskippable content on DVD/BluRay, etc. Whenever I buy a DVD, I immediately rip it because there is no way after paying so much money for the disc that I'm going to sit through an anti-piracy advert every time I want to watch the DVD.

The IT Crowd - Piracy Ad
Non-Brits may likely have to run their own search on Youlube.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Thuggery lol, I can't believe this rubbish. I am NOT the defender of Piracy. I really don't give two shits TBH.

Could have fooled me!

There are many types of piracy, but you prefer to lump them all into one easy to access jar.

Maybe there should be a separate jar labeled "theft ahdkaw approves of"?

The fact of the matter is that, yes there are those who download movies, games, books, music, whatever day in day out. However the majority of these people are not burning them to CD/DVD/BluRay and selling them down the market for a fiver (which as far as I'm concerned deserve nothing more that jail as they are profitting from this trade). No, there are actually people out there that download then watch/listen/read and then delete, this could very well be classed as Fair Use.

It isn't fair use to download an entire movie, game, or book without permission of the owner, whether or not you sell or delete it. You haven't bothered to attempt to explain how it would be, you just claim that theft is OK when it is theft that you would commit.

But you can't seem to make the leap from cassettes and videos to digital media. It's the same game being played as was in the 80's. Remember the anti-video recorder campaign? The anti-cassette campaign (tapes are killing music)? Funny how after they were defeated in the courts, the music and movie industries actually made more money than ever before.

And what's their new line of attack? "Piracy is killing the movie/music industry." This is a lie, the same lie used in the '80s. They may be seeing a drop in sales, but there is also a drectly-correllated increase in sales for games (a relatively new and highly profitable area). There is only so much a person can spend on entertainment, and when a game costs ,£40 it's no surprise that movie/music sales have taken a hit.

So you approve of criminal activity to obtain non-essential entertainment, because stealing from an industry you exploit but don't respect is acceptable to you? That's a very thuggish attitude. Yeah, there's only so much you can spend on entertainment, and when you run out of money YOU DON'T GET ANY MORE! You're a thief.

What you seem to think is that by downloading something on the internet is illegal. Well that's fine, as long as you are happy to accept the consequences on an open and free Internet. Better to censor the world than to look for ways of monetising this "new" medium.

I don't "think" it... that is the law. The fact that you don't like a law, that a law restricts your free access to things you don't have ANY right to doesn't change the law.

Let's just give you a link to help you chew the fat a bit more:

http://www.stealthisfilm.com/Part2/

Even Microsoft are against piracy, which is odd, because in the early days of Windows, piracy is what took them to the top.

PS: Without piracy my record collection would remain unlistened to for 15 years. But thankfully I can download what I have already bought and not have to wreck my vinyl or spend a ton of money on a new record deck. Also, without piracy how would we get a hold of 'deleted works'? They're certainly not for sale. And then what about all these cases of 'piracy' where a TV show which has been deleted have been able to rise from the dead and provide pleasure to millions of people who otherwise would have never experienced them (including TV channels who then re-broadcast this pirated material)?

You don't have a right to steal, no matter how many people get pleasure from it.

What part of "stealing is wrong" confuses you? Didn't your parents raise you to respect the property of others?

Did you ever answer my question about having a job? Ever have one of those?