Opinions and discussion on Satanism

[ImprobableJoe]

In order to believe in Satanism you have to believe in good and evil which are terms associated with both deities and religion. Satanism is religion and worship "evil" which as noted, is based on religious doctrine.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate... it certainly resembles a cult of personality in some ways, but it is more of an outgrowth of the same sort of national temperament that led to the growth of Scientology. It has that same sort of charismatic leader who completely rips off a bunch of established ideas, slaps a coat of crazy on it, and claims to provide an alternative to traditional behavior. In Levey's case, it was a combination of the nonsensical ideas of Ayn Rand, 1950s scary movies, and the Catholic Church. Also like Scientology's L. Ron Hubbard, much of Levey's biography seems to be fake, and there's certain behaviors that seem to hint that he was a con artist.

But no, I wouldn't call it a religion.

 

[theatheistguy]

Satanism is a belief based on good and evil, just as paganism, wicca and every other religion. Whether one wants to view it as philosophy or religion, its focal point, aka, deity, is the origin of good and evil.

Repeating yourself doesn't make your position any more correct (as has already been discussed here). There is no deity in La Veyian Satanism, therefore no ultimate good and evil and no worship.

Also like Scientology's L. Ron Hubbard, much of Levey's biography seems to be fake, and there's certain behaviors that seem to hint that he was a con artist.

Maybe that's why they chucked him out of the Church before he died, they found out?

 

[OGjimkenobi]

Repeating yourself doesn't make your position any more correct (as has already been discussed here). There is no deity in La Veyian Satanism, therefore no ultimate good and evil and no worship.

I think that you will find that even many Biblical scholars and historians are unfamilar with La Veyian Satanism, as it is still very young and not the subject of historical biblical research.

Old school Satanism is a different animal entirely.

All that being said, it seems like you almost go out of your way in making sure that you're an outright dick to practically everyone you come in contact with.

Lonely much?

 

[Dirigoproductions]

You don't need a deity to have a religion? A religion can be Oprah's religion which is a self teaching philosophy. They worship themselves just as those in Satanism. They worship material possessions. Material possessions are a form of good associated with deification. You have no grasp to the origins of consciousness. Hell, computer programming has become a religion, so yes, Satanism is a religion, even if of philosphy

 

[theatheistguy]

All that being said, it seems like you almost go out of your way in making sure that you're an outright dick to practically everyone you come in contact with.

Lonely much?

Excuse me? How am I "making sure that [I'm] an outright dick to practically everyone come in contact with"? You can have a look at my other posts, not being a 'dick', and here I'm not, just putting forward points (granted, Joe and I have gotten heated) although I haven't been a 'dick' to Dirigo. Why do you say that I have?

You don't need a deity to have a religion? A religion can be Oprah's religion which is a self teaching philosophy. They worship themselves just as those in Satanism. They worship material possessions. Material possessions are a form of good associated with deification. You have no grasp to the origins of consciousness. Hell, computer programming has become a religion, so yes, Satanism is a religion, even if of philosphy

Yea, I study Sociology at uni so I've seen the range of definitions of religions, so we can be strict in saying only those with deity worship can be called religion, or slack and include football, shopping and beauty spa's as religion. However, for the sake of argument, on a website mainly populated by Atheists (those who do not believe in a deity) lets use the strict definition, therefore excluding Satanism and Oprah from the realms of religion.

 

[Mapp]

I find the Church of Satan types to be incredibly obnoxious, and have since dubbed them as part of a sub-set corollary of the New York Law. The New York law states that in any conversation with someone from New York City, when not in New York City, the probability that they will mention they are from New York approaches one the longer the conversation goes on. This is usually proven true within the first minute of the conversation. Try it yourself, and time it, you'll find that I'm right. I have always found that members of the Church of Satan just can't wait to tell me all about how individualistic and non-conformist they are, and will do so whether we're talking about politics or baseball.

Other subsets of the New York law: People without televisions in their house, Christians who have been "born again" in the last year, vegans.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Other subsets of the New York law: People without televisions in their house, Christians who have been "born again" in the last year, vegans.

And, unfortunately people who "cleanse" by way of a water hose up the butt. :shock:

 

[Dirigoproductions]

I'm not sure that's quite accurate... it certainly resembles a cult of personality in some ways, but it is more of an outgrowth of the same sort of national temperament that led to the growth of Scientology. It has that same sort of charismatic leader who completely rips off a bunch of established ideas, slaps a coat of crazy on it, and claims to provide an alternative to traditional behavior. In Levey's case, it was a combination of the nonsensical ideas of Ayn Rand, 1950s scary movies, and the Catholic Church. Also like Scientology's L. Ron Hubbard, much of Levey's biography seems to be fake, and there's certain behaviors that seem to hint that he was a con artist. But no, I wouldn't call it a religion.

I'm sorry but the name of the book is titled "Satanic Bible" which has obvious religious connotations. If your out to create your own philosophical sect, (which some claim LeVey's sect to be) than don't place "Bible" at the end of your book, as you have just created a religious doctrine. He could have called it a handbook, but of all things places Bible at the end of it, I'm sorry, but his intentions are clearly to form a religion with material possessions being the focal point. He is personifying himself as a deity, which all religions form around.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I'm sorry but the name of the book is titled "Satanic Bible" which has obvious religious connotations. If your out to create your own philosophical sect, (which some claim LeVey's sect to be) than don't place "Bible" at the end of your book, as you have just created a religious doctrine. He could have called it a handbook, but of all things places Bible at the end of it, I'm sorry, but his intentions are clearly to form a religion with material possessions being the focal point. He is personifying himself as a deity, which all religions form around.

Well... six of one, half-dozen of the other. I don't think "religion" is the right word, though. "Cult of personality" is closer.

 

[Dirigoproductions]

Well... six of one, half-dozen of the other. I don't think "religion" is the right word, though. "Cult of personality" is closer.

Is religion not a cult?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Is religion not a cult?

All religions may be considered "cults" but that doesn't mean all cults are religions.

This is a minor point, and doesn't really matter... does it?

 

[theatheistguy]

All religions may be considered "cults" but that doesn't mean all cults are religions.

This is a minor point, and doesn't really matter... does it?

What? I think you mean that the other way round? Catholicism is not a cult nor a sect, but Baptist could be considered a sect as it is a small section of a main Church or religion, and a cult is fundemetalist sect like Westboro Baptist.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

What? I think you mean that the other way round? Catholicism is not a cult nor a sect, but Baptist could be considered a sect as it is a small section of a main Church or religion, and a cult is fundemetalist sect like Westboro Baptist.

All cults to me, in the most derogatory way possible.

 

[theatheistguy]

All cults to me, in the most derogatory way possible.

The word cult is not derogatory at all, essentially has the same definition definition as religion except it's exclusive and sticks to it's beliefs.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

The word cult is not derogatory at all, essentially has the same definition definition as religion except it's exclusive and sticks to it's beliefs.

So religions aren't exclusive, and don't stick to their beliefs?

Answer that, and then let's drop it. We're pretty far off topic.

 

[theatheistguy]

So religions aren't exclusive, and don't stick to their beliefs?

Answer that, and then let's drop it. We're pretty far off topic.

Most of them aren't, no. You walk into a Cathedral, church or Mosque and you are welcomed to join them, but you walk into an Exclusive Brethren church or WB church and you're getting chucked out on your ass.

As for sticking to their beliefs, Catholic church now accepts a helio-centred solar system, round earth, evolution and has got rid of limbo.

 

[Cyrathil]

I've read the site, and it does seem to me to be blown out of proportion. They don't eat babies (but then again, I'm an atheist, so I get told I eat babies...), or sacrifice goats. The problem I have is that they practice a ritualistic magic of sorts. On that level, it's just like the Pagans to me. It doesn't matter if they don't believe in a deity, because they practice magic. It's got some good ideas, but it's nothing to get worked up over.

That and I don't want to spend some 200$ to be accepted into a church. The entrance fee and magic are the big things I dislike about them.

 

[acerba]

Doing your own thing and being totally individualistic 103% of the time is going to wind up making you a pariah. It's difficult to relate to people who are different from you (I think the millennia of racism and general scapegoating drives that point home rather well), and similarities inspire a sense of camaraderie.

In the end, you're better off picking a subculture and running with it.