Is creationism being forgotten?

[AdmiralPeacock]

Are the Chinese "natural" atheists, or would it still be considered somewhat forced over there?

Natural atheists for the most part - that isn't to say they're nonreligious.

 

[Gnug215]

I would be glad if it were forgotten, but the sad reality is that it isn't. I'm actually watching (with fear in my heart) the rise of creationism in almost all of Europe. This isn't to say that we'll all be creationists tomorrow, of course not. But there is a real threat to the mental sanity of our children. Yeah, that's the teacher in me shining through.

Yeah, I have the same impression of the state of things in Europe. Basically, there seems to be a polarization going on. I once heard some statistics from the US that indicated that, while there were more atheists/agnostics in the US than ever, there were also more fundies. Basically, the moderate middle is being eaten by both sides.
I can actually see how fundamentalism would have some kind of appeal to many religious people. The sometimes wishy-washy, biblically non-literal, moderate stance isn't as, well, fundamental, absolute and clear-cut as the fundy stance. Being a moderate requires actual, hard, honest thinking, and well... I don't need to finish the rest of that sentence.
The experience I have of the state of things in the EU is that creationism is on the rise, while the share of religious people is not - that is if you don't factor in immigration, which brings us to another problem: the rise of creationism in islamic circles. I'm not adequately informed there either, but it is also my impression that it is on the rise there (I hear things in Turkey are really bad?).

So no, I doubt we all will be "out of a job" anytime soon.

 

[wolfrayet]

Are the Chinese "natural" atheists, or would it still be considered somewhat forced over there?

Natural atheists for the most part - that isn't to say they're nonreligious.

Apparently there are 65million Muslims in China - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China

"a growing number of students have gone overseas to continue their studies at international Islamic universities in Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, and Malaysia.[2] Qīngzhēn (清真) is the Chinese term for certain Islamic institutions. Its literal meaning is "pure truth."

Nice

 

[SatanicBunny]

Are the Chinese "natural" atheists, or would it still be considered somewhat forced over there?

Buddhism is the most popular religion in China, and the majority of Buddhist do not believe in a god. So yes, most of the chinese people are "naturally" atheist - as in lacking belief in gods, but not necessarily secular or what we would call rational-minded people.

 

[BrainBlow]

Are the Chinese "natural" atheists, or would it still be considered somewhat forced over there?

Some missionary visited our school. He is working at some project in China.
He said he once met a girl who didn't even "Know who god was". (though I have a feeling the story might have been exaggerated a tinsy bit)

 

[Squawk]

Well I suppose that would count as natural atheism. Doesn't say much for that omnipotent chappie that some people have never even heard of it, let alone believe he exists.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

[

Natural atheists for the most part - that isn't to say they're nonreligious.

Apparently there are 65million Muslims in China - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_China

"a growing number of students have gone overseas to continue their studies at international Islamic universities in Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, and Malaysia.[2] Qīngzhēn (清真) is the Chinese term for certain Islamic institutions. Its literal meaning is "pure truth."

Nice

So? They have a population over 1.3 billion people - 65 million is nothing.

 

[sgrunterundt]

So? They have a population over 1.3 billion people - 65 million is nothing.

5%, while a minority for sure, is hardly nothing.

 

[lrkun]

Guys, it would help if you give your reason for stating a stand. *For purposes of understanding*

Here is an example:

Why is it nothing?

Why is it hardly nothing?

So? They have a population over 1.3 billion people - 65 million is nothing.

5%, while a minority for sure, is hardly nothing.

 

[quantumfireball2099]

Still a doozey in the US too... What with tax payer backed creationist parks and what not...

I think they are getting the money because of it being a tourist attaction, not that it is religious. At least this is how I understand it.

 

[SagansHeroes]

I don't think it's being forgotten....

Australia has a few issues with creationists that Aught brought up. There was a Creationist museum that recently opened in England and apparently was approved for public school field trips : /

One of my lesbian friends back in New Zealand's girlfriend is a creationist.... Odd I know >.<, her parents are super catholic I think though, and it's just what she was brought up to believe.

I recall there being a law in Kansas either against evolution or for creationism in the class room? But I'm not certain.

It's still around, I think it lost a lot of wind with the supreme court calling it unconstitutional, and the supposed scientists/lawyers that were supposed to provide evidence never showed up in court.

 

[Independent Vision]

I didn't know, even when I was still counted as a Christian, that Creationism even really existed. Growing up in Sweden religious people of any kind has always been a minority for me to meet. And even the Muslims I have encountered, while practicing, have been very, very liberal. One of my best friends in high school was a Muslim. We used to affectionately refer to her as the "naughty, naughty Muslim" on account of her slowly abandoning the "no drinking" and "no sex before marriage" rules gradually during the course of high school.

I have never had any really close friends that were Christians, thought. And I've never known any Creationists until I came over to Australia. They're few and far between in Sweden. At least where I come from.

I don't understand Creationists. Well, in one sense I do. It's easy to just take someone's word for it and close your mind to everything else. Most people just take what their pastors and priests say as gospel, and some of them don't even read the bible themselves, it seems. They might own several bibles, but rarely read them.
But the notion that otherwise fairly rational people believe in it without question is terrifying.

I've met people who are completely rational when it comes to global warming, environmental problems... all kinds of shit, but reason goes out the window when it comes to things like evolution.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that if you can imagine that there is another person you can put blame on and give credit for things that happens in your life. "God was only testing me." "It was Gods will." Blah blah... it makes it easier for some individuals to deal with what has happened to them in their lives.
I think many people turn to religion instead of therapy to hide their issues away and ignore them, because it's so much easier than to spend a lot of time working on the issues and dragging them out into the open.

Creationism goes hand in hand with that. I believe people use it as an escape from reality. And the harder times get, the more people want to escape reality.

I think it's being forgotten by more rational people because they don't like to think about the idiocy. But it's still there. And things are getting more and more to the point where you have the atheist community growing and the fundie community growing. There isn't really any in-between place to hide anymore. Either you accept things as they are, revel in that and try to make the best out of things, or you stick your head so far into the sand you possibly can and stay there. But that's just the way I see it.

 

[AdmiralPeacock]

I didn't know, even when I was still counted as a Christian, that Creationism even really existed. Growing up in Sweden religious people of any kind has always been a minority for me to meet. And even the Muslims I have encountered, while practicing, have been very, very liberal. One of my best friends in high school was a Muslim. We used to affectionately refer to her as the "naughty, naughty Muslim" on account of her slowly abandoning the "no drinking" and "no sex before marriage" rules gradually during the course of high school.

I have never had any really close friends that were Christians, thought. And I've never known any Creationists until I came over to Australia. They're few and far between in Sweden. At least where I come from.

I don't understand Creationists. Well, in one sense I do. It's easy to just take someone's word for it and close your mind to everything else. Most people just take what their pastors and priests say as gospel, and some of them don't even read the bible themselves, it seems. They might own several bibles, but rarely read them.
But the notion that otherwise fairly rational people believe in it without question is terrifying.

I've met people who are completely rational when it comes to global warming, environmental problems... all kinds of shit, but reason goes out the window when it comes to things like evolution.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that if you can imagine that there is another person you can put blame on and give credit for things that happens in your life. "God was only testing me." "It was Gods will." Blah blah... it makes it easier for some individuals to deal with what has happened to them in their lives.
I think many people turn to religion instead of therapy to hide their issues away and ignore them, because it's so much easier than to spend a lot of time working on the issues and dragging them out into the open.

Creationism goes hand in hand with that. I believe people use it as an escape from reality. And the harder times get, the more people want to escape reality.

I think it's being forgotten by more rational people because they don't like to think about the idiocy. But it's still there. And things are getting more and more to the point where you have the atheist community growing and the fundie community growing. There isn't really any in-between place to hide anymore. Either you accept things as they are, revel in that and try to make the best out of things, or you stick your head so far into the sand you possibly can and stay there. But that's just the way I see it.

Heh, my parents are douches in that regard aren't they.

 

[Independent Vision]

Heh, my parents are douches in that regard aren't they.

I prefer your parents in small doses and far away. It's sad, but I really don't know how to deal with their religiosity. I do consider myself so lucky that I grew up with an atheist mother and an agnostic father. It's so much easier to deal with in the long run... well, my mother was hard to deal with while I was still trying on religion. Militant little atheist that one! :lol:
I love how she was terrified your mother would hate her because she flat out told your mum she doesn't believe in God. You should have seen her, all "Oh, your husbands mum probably hates me, I didn't think before I opened my big, atheist mouth."

 

[FiverBeyond]

What is this "creationism" of which you speak?

 

[lrkun]

What is this "creationism" of which you speak?

Creationism <-- wikipedia will give you a general overview. In simple terms, it means the literal belief that the story of creation is true.

 

[Inferno]

What is this "creationism" of which you speak?

Creationism <-- wikipedia will give you a general overview. In simple terms, it means the literal belief that the story of creation is true.

I think that FB is yanking your chain and that he knows exactly what creationism is all about, after all he watched the Dembski vs Hitchens debate and Aron's thoughts on it.
It seems to me that his message is that he already forgot what it is.

 

[lrkun]

I think that FB is yanking your chain and that he knows exactly what creationism is all about, after all he watched the Dembski vs Hitchens debate and Aron's thoughts on it.
It seems to me that his message is that he already forgot what it is.

I see. Well, it's better to be safe in this instance. Hehe.

 

[Squawk]

What is this "creationism" of which you speak?

I laughed

 

[Mithcoriel]

Switzerland: I didn't know creationism existed until I was around 16. And then I only heard of it cause we were talking about extreme fundamentalist groups in English class, as language practice. It was mentioned on the side: "Some of them are even so fundamentalist, they reject Darwin's theory of evolution." Insert a disbelieving sigh that goes through the class.
At that point I imagined it was maybe a small fringe group, a sect of 20 people, that believed in creationism. I would have never thought that it's half the Americans!

My parents won't believe me when I tell them all the anti-creationist videos on youtube are worthwhile. In their mind, the tiny handful of creationists that do exist in the world are all just trolls, deliberately saying outrageous things to annoy the skeptics cause they want attention. Can someone tell me how to educate them on this subject?
I told them that according to a poll, 2/3rds of Americans are creationists (ok, to be precise, one third is creationist, one third evolution"ist", one third isn't sure. Someone correct me if you have different numbers?) But they just shrugged it off saying statistics can be faked.
They said that, okay, on rare occasions, the population was large enough to influence an election in one state.

To sum up, how bad is the creationist problem in the U.S again?

Oh yeah, those who said creationists are increasing in Europe: Really? Where?

No. As long as there is suffering in this world, there will be people who'll believe in god or his quick fix or his prophets. Therefore creationism will not be forgotten for now.

And you're mixing up creationism with religion in general. The two don't need to be connected at all.