I DARE ANY atheists answer my simple Question !!!!

[TheFearmonger]

fine i will expose you :mrgreen: :lol:

answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html

so tell me what is your comment :mrgreen: ???

uh... the comments I sent about the violence of muslims, their hatred and bigotry, ect...

And speaking of "you didn't refute the point " i think you didn't visit the site that i give it to you but of course you ignorant it
http://www.answering-christianity.com/nadeem_embryology.htm

No, I read it. I am not a christian. This article also sucks. It is basic, and it provides no real refutation of what I sent you...and, your vernacular is once again dissolving...did you just copy/paste earlier?

 

[nemesiss]

the answer is quite simple; quite alot of "scientific" knowledge in the qu'ran was already known and copied, including the errors in them. most of the knowledge was copied from the greeks as far is known (but some knowledge of that knowledge was also known by other cultures), though most people are not aware of the knowledge the greeks had build up which makes it difficult to disprove the so-called divine knowledge. "its quite humor that ONLY NOW we have the technology to proof the qu'ran's divine knowledge"... right.... i have heard better bullshit.

edit: if their is indeed truely divine knowledge in the qu'ran... proof it by providing something that hasn't been discovered yet and couldn't be discovered without the qu'ran.

Greek ??? it's really funny when you say a man who doesn't know read nor write he got the ability to plagiarized !

The Great difference between Galen and the rest of the Greeks and the Quran :

http://www.quranicstudies.com/articles/medical-miracles/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology.html

ok, lets go off-topic for a moment...

a site who plays defender and judge, cute.
i skimmed through the article but its not that greatly written since it didn't address the issue, it merely scaved it.
its starts by claiming there was no plagiarism and then writes down both the embroyology claims plus anothers, without making comparisons.

if they wanted to do it properly, they would need to do it in chapters.
the full explenations of embroyology would be different chapters.
they would need chapters adressing the claim with focus on the lines which are claimed to be plagiarism.


as for the who prophet thing;
set aside the bad grammar (your sentence implies he would be alive this day), but instead of the miracle claim.. lets see if we can find alternatives;

1) he wasn't illiterate, he or others made that claim.
2) he wasn't completely illiterate; he couldn't read or write arabic but could read other languages like ancient greek.
3) he didn't write the qu'ran, others did that for him and claimed he did it.
4) he wrote it together with others and took (or was given) all honor.

gossip can easily distort facts and inflate it beyond logic.
from a small push against someone, it got morphed a story where i had beaten someone into a 2 week coma.

 

[nemesiss]

You didn't refute the point. You had a video of people refusing to admit the book fail happening in the quran. That link is just like the hovind lectures people post for creationism, and it has about as much sense. And I did not plagiarize. I never said it was my original thought, even though I took the article and added my thoughts to it. So, no. Accusation FAIL. And, we aren't against you. YOU came on our forums, and posted things that have been refuted for years. This is of your doing. Don't make yourself out to be some victim. You asked for this.

fine i will expose you :mrgreen: :lol:

answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/embryo.html

so tell me what is your comment :mrgreen: ???


And speaking of "you didn't refute the point " i think you didn't visit the site that i give it to you but of course you ignorant it
http://www.answering-christianity.com/nadeem_embryology.htm

i checked through them. there is no for of plagiarism.
both have posted the origin of their information, and even those are not the same.
it's not plagiarism when using the same data.

also, how this implies fearmongerer commited plagiarism is questionable.

 

[Waza-Minooo44]

You consider it a miracle that there are two sura without a formula at the beginning? Why are none of the other sura linked in pairs of 19?

first of all do you know which formula i'm talking about ???? PREPARE FOR SHOCK ! even the formula consist of 19 letters !

The Formula consists of 19 letters.

A total of 113 Suras( Suras means Chapters ) in the Qur'an start with the formula. The only Sura not to start with one is the ninth, Surat at-Tawba. Surat an-Naml is the only Sura to have two formulas. One of these is at the beginning and the other in verse 30. Counting from Surat at-Tawba, which does not begin with the formula, Surat an-Naml follows 19 Suras on.

Here's a list of the last few visits from Halley's comet

1607
75 years
1682
77 years
1759
76 years
1835
75 years
1910
76 years
1986
75 years
2061

Not exactly multiples of 19 are they? Seems fairly erratic for a clear sign.

tell me who is the LIAR ??? because i provide you the link and still you want to argue so tell me who is the Liar ?


ExeFBM OR Calvin J. Hamilton ( Calvin J. Hamilton received his bachelors and masters degrees in electrical engineering from Brigham Young University.) ???

If you're counting fused bones then there are 213-214 bones, as the sacrum is 5 fused bones, and some people have an additional fused bone in the coccyx. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bones_of_the_human_skeleton
Still not divisible by 19.

cranial bones (8)
Facial bones: (14)
In the middle ears (6):
In the throat (1):
In the shoulder girdle (4):
In the thorax (27):
In the vertebral column (24):
In the arms (2):
In the forearms (4):
In the hands (54):

In the pelvis (4 or 5):
coccyx (4 or 5 fused)

In the thighs (2):
In the legs (6):
In the feet (52):
---------------------------------
Total = 209 (19*11)

so tell me what type of Glass you want ??? maybe it won't work ( because you are blind) so i will bring for you Telescope with infinity (∞) lenses .

As you've said, the exact position of the sun Earth and moon occurs every 18 years, 11 days, and 8 hours. This is not 19. This link you provided is an astrology site, so do you believe that the stars and planets influence our destiny and emotions? The conclusion at the bottom of that page states:

he Eclipse Year. It was discovered by the Chaldeans that after 18 years 11-1/3 days (or 18 years, 10-1/3 days if the interval contained five leap years), the Nodes have prescribed 19 revolutions relative to the Sun/Nodal conjunctions (or 19 Eclipse Years), at which time, the Sun and Moon will have returned to almost exactly the same positions relative to the Nodes.

2698 (God is mentioned in the quran) is also an even number

the word God is mentioned 2698 and 2698 is multiple of 19 Mr.atheist 19 * 142 . the entire book written in 19 so tell me how did he do it ? without paper or pencil or pen in addition to this without Education .

If God was mentioned several thousand times, and the number was prime, I would be more impressed

if i bring it to you the Moon in front of your eyes you won't believe it !!!!

23 (years) and 8 (wives) are also not divisible by 19.

honestly i don't want to insult you but you are acting like dumb i put brakects to empathize what i'm talking . And for 23 years and 8 wifes i didn't say 23 nor 8 is multiple of 19 i wonder if you are using your rationality which is i doubted !

imagine illiterate man he doesn't know read nor write , he got no paper and no pen and he is
keeping counting every word "GOD"[ God is mentioned in the whole quran 2698(19*142)] in the quran
for 23 years THE busiest MAN IN HISTORY ! the polytheist give him no peace , the Christians
give him no peace , the Jews they give him no peace , his own family they give him no peace
and he is creating nation and Empire and religion !!! and he is keeping counting and at one stage
he had 8 Wifes !

Well if you count making the most advanced people on earth at the time primitive barbarians while the rest of the world advanced a secular success...

secular success in the world advanced ??? i think you are bluffing ! :lol:

Western studies have shown that most rapists are already criminals who commit their crimes under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and they take advantage of the fact that their victims are walking alone in isolated places, or staying in the house alone. These studies also show that what the criminals watch on the media and the semi-naked styles of dress in which women go out, also lead to the commission of this reprehensible crime and rape .

The laws of Islam came to forbid alcohol . because alcohol create crimes that will never end .

[ Quran 5:90 ]
O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, Al-Ansab, and Al-Azlam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitan's (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.


In America, for example, International Amnesty stated in a 2004 report entitled "Stop Violence Against Women" that every 90 seconds a woman was raped during that year.


Alcohol Statistics
http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/alcohol.htm

More than 100,000 U.S. deaths are caused by excessive alcohol consumption each year. Direct and indirect causes of death include drunk driving, cirrhosis of the liver, falls, cancer, and stroke.1

Nearly 14 million Americans meet diagnostic criteria for alcohol use disorders.5

Youth who drink alcohol are 50 times more likely to use cocaine than those who never drink alcohol.3

More than 18% of Americans experience alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence at some time in their lives.6

Traffic crashes are the greatest single cause of death for persons aged 6-33. About 45% of these fatalities are in alcohol-related crashes.4

Problem drinkers average four times as many days in the hospital as nondrinkers , mostly because of drinking-related injuries.1

Alcohol kills 6,½ times more youth than all other illicit drugs combined.2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alcohol_by_Country.png

Atheism broken down is a- theos -ism or more correctly, etymologically a- + (theos + ism). -Ism denotes a belief in a proposition that is related to the root it is affixed to. It is the belief of the proposition and the root itself as there are things like the word "completionist" which is someone who completes all tasks and acquiring all possible items to maximum quantity in a game. Completionism has nothing to do with any other thing than games and because of this fact it is the proposition of the complete term and not the root word that is denoted by an -ism suffix. The prefix of a- is simply the rejection of the proposition that it is affixed to.

thankx you are proving my point !

this what you said "The prefix of a- is simply the rejection of the proposition that it is affixed to. " and all what i asked for is one Argument that's all if you can't prove your position according to your standard you are no longer atheist . You are theist .

"A rejection of the belief in Zeus"

Zeus is Man-god ( like the famous one : Cosmic Jewish Zombie) so do you believe it ??? unless you are irrational

the rise of Christianity who took the word theos as a reference to gods and thus their god it became... "A rejection of the belief in god"

if you think Christianity is monotheistic religion i think you are bluffing

I know some of you are saying "nu huh, the a prefix means without." That is true as well. To reject something also means that you are without it, but there is a slight difference in that to reject something requires action while to be without requires none. The default is the latter, but generally when most people talk about atheism they mean the former.

well this is your own understanding of the meaning of atheism but fact you can't change it :mrgreen:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheist


a⋅the⋅ism  [ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
-noun
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

Synonyms: for "No"
abnegation, ban, choice, cold shoulder, declension, declination, defiance, denial,

Now... as far as "proving" that there isn't a god. We can handle this several ways. Logically gods can't be within our reality, nor can their words, writings, or anything else of them and so to make a claim about a god is absurd at best from a logical stand point, at least for the definition of most peoples' gods. Kami and Ancient Mythology could exist in reality but that has to do with what they are are not what you would call a god modernly. We could go down that road of disproving, or we could go down the road that any argument FOR a god that has ever been seen is absurd, special pleading, or just full of logical fallacies, but both of those miss the point for theists understanding.

so according to your standard Aristotle when he believe there is god so he is absurd ????

Aristotle, Metaphysics, Book 12 (Lambda) chapters 6-10
[Sed quoniam tres sunt] Since there were three kinds of substance, two of them physical and one unmovable, regarding the latter we must assert that it is necessary that there should be an eternal unmovable substance. For substances are the first of existing things, and if they are all destructible, all things are destructible. But it is impossible that movement should either have come into being or cease to be (for it must always have existed), or that time should. For there could not be a before and an after if time did not exist. Movement also is continuous, then, in the sense in which time is; for time is either the same thing as movement or an attribute of movement. And there is no continuous movement except movement in place, and of this only that which is circular is continuous.

The idea that I must disprove a claim you make when you haven't proven it is absurd

i already prove it in fact i have many arguments that god exist whereas atheists haven't show me at least ONE SINGLE ARGUMENT in fact i didn't asked for 20 or 10 or even 3 arguments i only asked for one argument . It's really absurd and illogical to call your self atheist [ the doctrine or belief that there is no God. ] when you don't have proof or at least one argument to support your believe which i call it BLIND FAITH ! :mrgreen:


take for example these two Greeks Democritus and Leucippus they didn't see the atom but they use their rationality and logic .

here is another proof BUT REMEMBER I SHOWED MY ARGUMENT ! now you have to bring one argument that disprove god( IF YOU DARE :mrgreen: ) ! not to try to disprove my argument if you did then your belief just fallacy :mrgreen:

here is my argument

. in fact in some place there was a law that if you could not prove your case and made an accusation you would be punished as though you committed the crime you accused the person of because simply the accusation is a tarnishing of the person and to make an accusation without proof is a knowing and willing act of malice.

Fine let's test that !!!

Muslims have = Rationality ( believing in the first cause or intelligent design being) and the Quran .

Atheist = unknown ????? No proof , Not even single argument .

so according to your standard atheist must go to jail for 99 years for not providing the evidence of their belief .

Being an atheist requires understanding of 2 things (a)gnosticism and the Null Hypothesis. Gnosticism is the proposition that one can know something absolutely, as in to every question there is an answer that covers it 100% or in some cases 0%. Agnosticism is the rejection of this idea and instead says that there is no way that anyone can ever be absolutely know anything to a degree of certainty of 0 or 100%, but rather all our knowledge has a certainty between 0 and 100% (ie 1% to 99%). Both of these positions were equally valid at one point, but as time went on more and more info about everything keeps coming so agnosticism is considered the right position for any stance on anything else.

well this is your own understanding without provide any links or something what you are saying is true .

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gnosticism
Gnos,·ti,·cism (nŏs'tÄ­-sÄ­z'É™m)
n. The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.


well i'm not sure if you believe in Jewish Zombie


ag⋅nos⋅ti⋅cism  [ag-nos-tuh-siz-uhm]
-noun
1. the doctrine or belief of an agnostic.

what is agnostic ?

[a-1 + Gnostic.]
ag,·nos'ti,·cal,·ly adv.
An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.


Atheist is different !! atheism is even WORSE Atheism DENY the existence of Creator ! all what i asked for is to bring one argument that's all .

for some reason he thinks i am gay, sofar i haven't found any proof of that...

Ooh really then what do you call this ??? I'm not sure if you are trying to seduce Richard Dawkins haha funny :lol:

we can see him, hear him, touch him, smell him and :mrgreen: taste him :mrgreen: .... though i doubt he would like the last two.

This means that with any claim the default position should be that it is not true. in other words, the default is to reject any proposition without sufficient proof.

this is illiterate man in the desert in the 7th he is telling you ....

since he doesn't believe in gods like apollo

Apollo is MAN-GOD ( like the Famous one Jewish Zombie ) so tell me do you believe in MAN-GOD ?? unless you are irrational .

what do you hope to accomplish?

i want to create new arguments and each mistake i do i corrected till the time no atheist have the courage to debate with me !

What is your goal? I will tell you exactly where you're going wrong, but so far as I can tell you don't have a goal here; you've entered an argument and your goal seems to be some unfocused abstract fuzzy concept of "to win"

my goal is to expose atheism ( fallacy belief without single ARGUMENT or proof )

Is your goal to get us to believe in your god?

well it's your choice if i were you i would rather search the best concept of God . And then analyse the book that you are reading it . take for example the Christians believe in Man-God so do you accept your God can become man ??? of course No, because it contradict two natures the human nature and the God nature . So my advice search for the best concept of God .

i told you before the Arabic term for God is Allāh; most scholars believe it was derived from a contraction of the words al- (the) and ʾilāh (deity, masculine form), meaning "the god" (al-ilāh), but others trace its origin to the Aramaic Alāhā .( from Wikipedia )

did the first cow created by God "come from life"?

Try not to use things that can just as easily apply to your position when attempting to refute our's, do so only makes you look silly. Every single point you have made has been countered many times over, it's time for you to go back, and read everthing these people have told you, then spend some time thinking about it.

do you call this evolution ??? Every change in function ,structure, and process would have had to develop through chance trial-and-error if evolution was true, but no transitional forms have been found. Fossils have not yet caught any changes in the midst of being created so if you have one show us ?

How many times do we have to tell you that you can't prove a negative?

well it's not my problem negative or without negative . you call your self atheist ( Deny the existence of intelligence design being ) so all what i asked for one argument . if you can't then stay quite :mrgreen:

Your argument is wrong because:
1: You're asking people to prove a negative.
2: You're not understanding of the the word "atheist" properly. An atheist disbelieves OR denies the existence of God. There is a difference.
3: Even if we go by the "denies" definition, it's still a crappy argument, because there is no proof or evidence of God.
4: Additionally, even if you got people convinced that "atheist" was a contradictory title, all you've done is played with word definitions.

1) well i use the technique of the quran :mrgreen: the holy quran told us if any one make any claim just pause this question :

"Produce your proof if you are truthful." [ Quran 2:111 ]

if you are truthful from what you are saying then PRODUCE YOUR PROOF .


2) Ooh really i already provide the definition of atheism and by the way tell me what is the deference ??? i already clear it to you by provding the Synonym for the word deny .

From what I gathered, he believes that those gods (thor, apollo, etc.) are all just "incarnations" of the creator god. i.e. there is a "true" god but all of those gods, including his own, are all different manifestations of that god.

incarnation means like MAN become god ?? and i ask your self can god become man ??? watch the video ( Can God become man ?)

I could. Muhammed was a warlord, just like Ghengis Khan, Alexander the Great, Cortes of Spain and many, many others. Don't try to deny this, he founded the largest empire ever seen at the time in JUST 30 YEARS!

Warlord ?? are you telling me he spread his religion with sword ???


De Lacy O'Leary in 'Islam at the Crossroads,' London, 1923.
"History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated."

but do you know why Islam conquered another religion from 7th untill now ???


[chapter:The Repentance][verse:33][Holy Quran]
It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad SAW) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it SUPERIOR OVER ALL RELIGIONS even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it)

1. Atheist means "non theist". Theist being a believer in any god(s). The real definition of atheist is "one who lacks belief in any god(s)", or possible rewordings of that. This is the true and publicly accepted definition, and can be found as such in any credible dictionary or on any credible dictionary-themed websites.

okay where is the link for this definition ??? this is your own interpretation .

No that's not the definition of atheism. That definition is obviously fabricated by a theist who is not objective. That's the kind of trash you'd read on conservapedia or some dogshit like that.

fabricated ?? i only use Synonym for "god" and i got intelligent design .

skimmed through the article but its not that greatly written since it didn't address the issue, it merely scaved it.
its starts by claiming there was no plagiarism and then writes down both the embroyology claims plus anothers, without making comparisons.

this plagiarism happened in youtube when he send me the message about Embryology in the quran .

1) he wasn't illiterate, he or others made that claim.

if you are telling me the ENTIRE Arabs before 7th century they were intelligent i think you are bluffing if you study the history of the Arabs before 7th century you will come to this word "Al-Jahelia " ( this is Arabic word means The Ignorant Era ) .

2) he wasn't completely illiterate; he couldn't read or write arabic but could read other languages like ancient greek.

HAHAH FUNNY !!! so tell me which university or even school did he attend to learn Greek ???

3) he didn't write the qu'ran, others did that for him and claimed he did it.

we got this by memorization from one generation to another generation until midst 7 or 8th century we got the quran written

now who is the author of the quran ???? the quran answer it . it self

[ Quran : 1-2]
The Most Beneficent (Allah)!
Hath made known the Qur'an.


as for the allegation isn't new ! at the era of the prophet People accused Muhhammad that he copied or it was from his own handwork
so God answer it to that in one verse

[ Quran 17 :88 ]
Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.

4) he wrote it together with others and took (or was given) all honor.

I'm asking how can he wrote when he can't write ??? unless your brain work in opposite way . And by the way how can the "others" knows about .......

i checked through them. there is no for of plagiarism.
both have posted the origin of their information, and even those are not the same.
it's not plagiarism when using the same data.

also, how this implies fearmongerer commited plagiarism is questionable.

It's not in League of reason ! it's in youtube !

 

[Waza-Minooo44]

I needlessly reposted a huge quantity of text, images and videos twice. Not surprisingly, my posts were removed as spam by a moderator. I promise it won't happen again, mods!

 

[darthrender2010]

I call troll

 

[borrofburi]

what do you hope to accomplish?

i want to create new arguments and each mistake i do i corrected till the time no atheist have the courage to debate with me !

What is your goal? I will tell you exactly where you're going wrong, but so far as I can tell you don't have a goal here; you've entered an argument and your goal seems to be some unfocused abstract fuzzy concept of "to win"

my goal is to expose atheism ( fallacy belief without single ARGUMENT or proof )

Is your goal to get us to believe in your god?

well it's your choice if i were you i would rather search the best concept of God . And then analyse the book that you are reading it . take for example the Christians believe in Man-God so do you accept your God can become man ??? of course No, because it contradict two natures the human nature and the God nature . So my advice search for the best concept of God .

i told you before the Arabic term for God is Allāh; most scholars believe it was derived from a contraction of the words al- (the) and ʾilāh (deity, masculine form), meaning "the god" (al-ilāh), but others trace its origin to the Aramaic Alāhā .( from Wikipedia )

How do you know if you've made a mistake in your argument? How do you know if you've corrected that mistake?

Do you understand the null hypothesis? This is not a simple concept and takes a significant amount of studying to understand.


We won't believe in your god without evidence; more precisely, the bigger the claim, the larger the evidence required to substantiate that claim. I don't demand much evidence when my friend tells me he had rice for lunch, it's not a big claim, it's not an important claim; however when my friend tells me he has a new idea on how the universe works, I demand significantly more evidence. Your claim is massive, you know this, you pride yourself in this; however that necessarily means that the evidence you must produce to substantiate such a claim is also MASSIVE, but the "evidence" you present is trite numerology (which is at best extremely weak evidence compared to the massive claim you are presenting) and teleological arguments that have long been refuted but that you don't understand because you don't understand what the scientific method, at its heart, really does.

Thus you are being ineffective here for two primary reasons (there are other secondary reasons like your arrogance, poor grammar, poor style, antagonistic attitude, etc.): you are making a massive claim but providing small evidence, and you don't understand what science fundamentally does. The easiest way to remedy this is to receive training in science, work at a research center for a while, etc. and *then* you will understand what science does, how we know what we know, and what kind of evidence you will have to provide to actually have an effect on us. And then you can understand how to communicate to us, and get us to realize the truth of your god, but right now you don't understand some things and are thus failing to communicate to us.

 

[TheFearmonger]

Well, you've certainly proven us one point; that you are close minded as can be. Your "proof" is garnered mainly through taking parts from the many questionable translations of the quran, and then claiming the book as real. You then go on to ignore evidence of evolution, and spout some crap about since the sheepherders who wrote the book could count to 19, that proves everything it says. You have no argument, and your continued presense is only drawing any potential converts to islam farther away, with your caps locked arguments, non-sequitors, and childish rebuttals. You then attack me with some bogus charge, when I was attempting to draw you into a personal discussion, where you could present evidence in a more concise fashion. That could have helped you, yet you pushed that away, which only reinforces my idea that you only came here to rant against people who look at the world in an unbiased way. Do you really think this makes you look any better? Your arguments are not, your rebuttals are not, and you fail in describing how all the scientific evidence can be fit into your narrow view of the world. With this in mind, I feel it is no longer neccesary to argue with you. You will not see reason, you will not act like a civilized person having a discussion, and you continue to trow out the same arguments, without properly addressing the debunks. You and a christian man named Kent hovind would get along rather well, I'm sure. Look him up one day. And now, I must leave, for I have a life. Seeya!

 

[nemesiss]

i think we need a mod to sort this issue out.
it seems our friend here has made a (long) post/rant, and has quoted the same post twice.
as far as i saw skimming through it, the 3 posts are identical... why he did this im not sure.
perhaps an accident with copy-paste, or some other reason?

either way, seems like alot page stretching with ALOT of off-topic text.
to him and others, lets try to keep it ON-TOPIC, yes?

an advice for our friend here, you won't be able to pursuade us with fancy arabic text.
to us it looks like scribbles of a 4 year old playing with paint, this may sound like an insult but thats harsh reality.

if you found that word you posted impressive and divine, then kanji is beyond divinity
http://nihonshock.com/2009/10/crazy-kanji-highest-stroke-count/

yes, there are kanji that no computer can render...

 

[Eidolon]

Wow, this thread is starting to smell like a barn. So much horse shit.

 

[TheFearmonger]

Wow, this thread is starting to smell like a barn. So much horse shit.

Thay don't have horses where he's from, horses are almost never muslim...

 

[Eidolon]

Wow, this thread is starting to smell like a barn. So much horse shit.

Thay don't have horses where he's from, horses are almost never muslim...

Perhaps, camel shit? :lol:

I would say pig shit but I wouldn't want to offend anybody lol.

 

[Waza-Minooo44]

i think i made mistake . instead of clicking on Edit i click on Quote . can anyone tell me how can i delete the Quotation ??

 

[nemesiss]

@waza: i advise you to delete the content of the 2 posts which can be deleted and place the sentence "this post can be removed".
this way you make it easier for the mods.


@fearmonger and eidolon:
lets just stay civilied people, okay?
lowering to the level of his arguments is not the way, even if it makes him finaly feel like he is debating someone.
his opinion is that atheists are stupid and irrational.
lets atleast disproof him on that, okay?

 

[TheFearmonger]

@fearmonger and eidolon:
lets just stay civilied people, okay?
lowering to the level of his arguments is not the way, even if it makes him finaly feel like he is debating someone.
his opinion is that atheists are stupid and irrational.
lets atleast disproof him on that, okay?

sorry, nemesiss. You're right, my anger is not conducive to this argument. I shall refrain in the future.

 

[nemesiss]

. in fact in some place there was a law that if you could not prove your case and made an accusation you would be punished as though you committed the crime you accused the person of because simply the accusation is a tarnishing of the person and to make an accusation without proof is a knowing and willing act of malice.

Fine let's test that !!!

Muslims have = Rationality ( believing in the first cause or intelligent design being) and the Quran .
Atheist = unknown ????? No proof , Not even single argument .
so according to your standard atheist must go to jail for 99 years for not providing the evidence of their belief .

hmm, this may be too hard to understand, but i'll give it a try (again);
how would you descibe an argument held strongly without any shred of (positive*) evidence for it?
i would describe that as irrational.


*positive, as in for the argument. negative, as in against the argument.
creationists are well-known for proposing negative evidence towards evolution, but have no positive evidence towards creationism.

1) he wasn't illiterate, he or others made that claim.

if you are telling me the ENTIRE Arabs before 7th century they were intelligent i think you are bluffing if you study the history of the Arabs before 7th century you will come to this word "Al-Jahelia " ( this is Arabic word means The Ignorant Era ) .

2) he wasn't completely illiterate; he couldn't read or write arabic but could read other languages like ancient greek.

HAHAH FUNNY !!! so tell me which university or even school did he attend to learn Greek ???

3) he didn't write the qu'ran, others did that for him and claimed he did it.

we got this by memorization from one generation to another generation until midst 7 or 8th century we got the quran written

now who is the author of the quran ???? the quran answer it . it self
[ Quran : 1-2]
The Most Beneficent (Allah)!
Hath made known the Qur'an.


as for the allegation isn't new ! at the era of the prophet People accused Muhhammad that he copied or it was from his own handwork
so God answer it to that in one verse

[ Quran 17 :88 ]
Say: "If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.

4) he wrote it together with others and took (or was given) all honor.

I'm asking how can he wrote when he can't write ??? unless your brain work in opposite way . And by the way how can the "others" knows about .......

so you see that there is a contradiction in the argument that someone who can't write, wrote a book.
Then this should also be a clue to you, that something about this claim isn't right and the truth has to be found.

as for point #1, im well aware that alot of people were unable to read or write.
the point i was making that with time and gossip a story can be "evolved" into something different.
when i was a freshman in highschool, some guy was trying to be tough and i gave him a gentle push to the side, it got bloted into a story where i had beaten him in a 2 week coma...

as for point #2, im not that well known about his history, so i can't say much on the subject.
as for learning, not everything has to be learned at a school. there is something as self-study and with a small start you can come quite far, given enough material to learn from.

as for point #3, you might need to explain something here.
as i read it, you state that at a later time, perhaps after your prophet's death, the qu'ran was written down.
as for writing it, i never seen a book write itself... or for the argument "a story that writes itself" that has a totally different meaning.

skimmed through the article but its not that greatly written since it didn't address the issue, it merely scaved it.
its starts by claiming there was no plagiarism and then writes down both the embroyology claims plus anothers, without making comparisons.

this plagiarism happened in youtube when he send me the message about Embryology in the quran .

i checked through them. there is no for of plagiarism.
both have posted the origin of their information, and even those are not the same.
it's not plagiarism when using the same data.

also, how this implies fearmongerer commited plagiarism is questionable.

It's not in League of reason ! it's in youtube !

then i request you to make a screenshot of what you claim as plagiarism.
if you need assistance on that.
you can make a screenshot with a simple key presses,
information on how to do that, you can find on google.
if you need a place to host the picture, i recommend photobucket.com
its free and very userfriendly, and if you have trouble with photobucket... there should be a help function on the photobucket-site.


@fearmonger: getting frustrated and angry about certain things doesn't need to be a bad thing, it shows that care about it.
the trick is to redirect that frastration and anger into something positive.
in this case, take the argument that gave you that feeling and research the claim to the fullest, if needed break it down to piece and give as much negative evidence for his claim AND positive evidence for your claim needed to make it understandable why his claim is wrong and yours is right.

as far as the "debate" has been going, he has yet been able to bring any strong positive evidence while brining alot of (mild, weak and strong) negative evidence. im pretty sure that parts of the arguments he will flat-out ignore, other parts he will dismiss, and perhaps a few he will reflute with shallow arguments... but thats how reality is.
the only thing that you can do is give him the knowledge.
if he can't accept it, that is his fault. you did all you can and you shouldn't feel bad for yourself.
there are some fundamental flaws in his logic which he hasn't been able to detach from, its not your fault he has them.

 

[Gnug215]

How many times do we have to tell you that you can't prove a negative?

well it's not my problem negative or without negative . you call your self atheist ( Deny the existence of intelligence design being ) so all what i asked for one argument . if you can't then stay quite :mrgreen:

First of all, not your problem, negative or without negative? Could you perhaps try to make more sense and re-word this?

Look, it's very simple: If I tell you that I don't believe in ghosts, then tell me how I'm supposed to prove that?
That's what being asked to prove a negative means. Do you understand now?

Second, I don't call myself an atheist. This is just an assumption on your part.

Third, your obsession with wanting us to keep "quite" is bordering the creepy and other nasty stuff. If you just want any old argument, we've given plenty, so why should we keep quiet? You've given us plenty of junk arguments that prove nothing, does that mean you should keep quiet too?

Your argument is wrong because:
1: You're asking people to prove a negative.
2: You're not understanding of the the word "atheist" properly. An atheist disbelieves OR denies the existence of God. There is a difference.
3: Even if we go by the "denies" definition, it's still a crappy argument, because there is no proof or evidence of God.
4: Additionally, even if you got people convinced that "atheist" was a contradictory title, all you've done is played with word definitions.

1) well i use the technique of the quran :mrgreen: the holy quran told us if any one make any claim just pause this question :

"Produce your proof if you are truthful." [ Quran 2:111 ]

if you are truthful from what you are saying then PRODUCE YOUR PROOF .


2) Ooh really i already provide the definition of atheism and by the way tell me what is the deference ??? i already clear it to you by provding the Synonym for the word deny .

First, what happened to 3 and 4?

Second, I really don't know what kind of language Arabic is, but it seems evident that is wildly dissimilar from English in some aspects.
Let's get this synonymous stuff out of the way once and for all:

And Waza, read carefully now.

First, I want you to tell me, do you know what a thesaurus is?

Second, I'm going to give you a link. I want you to tell me what you see:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/synonym

And here is another link, which should make it clear:
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/belief

And now two final links:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/disbelieve

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deny


Now, isn't it strange that two synonyms have varying definitions?
Do you get the point now?


As a final point:
Atheists often distinguish amongst themselves as to whether they are gnostic/agnostic or strong/weak atheists. Do you know of this distinction? And do you realize after my explanation why such a distinction is needed?

If not, then go find out.

 

[Waza-Minooo44]

as far as the "debate" has been going, he has yet been able to bring any strong positive evidence while brining alot of (mild, weak and strong) negative evidence. im pretty sure that parts of the arguments he will flat-out ignore, other parts he will dismiss, and perhaps a few he will reflute with shallow arguments... but thats how reality is.
the only thing that you can do is give him the knowledge.
if he can't accept it, that is his fault. you did all you can and you shouldn't feel bad for yourself.
there are some fundamental flaws in his logic which he hasn't been able to detach from, its not your fault he has them.

don't worry i will refute each point you bring ! but anyway i will not reply till the next week because i have exams so enjoy these questions of mine Mr.atheist i hope you accept my gift ( :mrgreen: I hope you answer my questions IF YOU DARE :mrgreen: )


Q 1) How do you know that God does not exist?


Q 2) How did you come to know that you can't see, touch or feel him at least ?


Q 3) Did you see or touch your logic?


Q 4 ) How do you know your logic exists?

 

[Durakken]

well this is your own understanding without provide any links or something what you are saying is true .

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gnosticism
Gnos,·ti,·cism (nŏs'tÄ­-sÄ­z'É™m)
n. The doctrines of certain pre-Christian pagan, Jewish, and early Christian sects that valued the revealed knowledge of God and of the origin and end of the human race as a means to attain redemption for the spiritual element in humans and that distinguished the Demiurge from the unknowable Divine Being.

well i'm not sure if you believe in Jewish Zombie

ag⋅nos⋅ti⋅cism  [ag-nos-tuh-siz-uhm]
-noun
1. the doctrine or belief of an agnostic.

what is agnostic ?

[a-1 + Gnostic.]
ag,·nos'ti,·cal,·ly adv.
An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist.


Atheist is different !! atheism is even WORSE Atheism DENY the existence of Creator ! all what i asked for is to bring one argument that's all .

That term you are talking about came about around 0CE-300CE... Gnostics and Agnostics when you are speaking from that understanding are the exact same group. the group called themselves Gnostics, believed pretty close to what buddhists believe, and other christian groups called them Agnostics as an insult.

The name comes from they believe they had special knowlege while christians called them agnostics as an insult, essentially calling them idiots "without knowledge"


The word is used academically and originally the way I use it. I am a primary source as I am a student in college currently so I don't need to provide a source and there are people here that are probably more accomplished in areas that agree so... primary source is unneeded.

Also if you accept people just making it up as a good definition, even though they use a language not their own then I don't see the problem with accepting what another group says that it is when they talk about it.

 

[ExeFBM]

A total of 113 Suras( Suras means Chapters ) in the Qur'an start with the formula. The only Sura not to start with one is the ninth, Surat at-Tawba. Surat an-Naml is the only Sura to have two formulas. One of these is at the beginning and the other in verse 30. Counting from Surat at-Tawba, which does not begin with the formula, Surat an-Naml follows 19 Suras on.

Those Surah are 18 apart, not 19. 27-9=18

tell me who is the LIAR ??? because i provide you the link and still you want to argue so tell me who is the Liar ?


ExeFBM OR Calvin J. Hamilton ( Calvin J. Hamilton received his bachelors and masters degrees in electrical engineering from Brigham Young University.) ???

If you want to take an electrical engineers word, over established dates in astronomy, that's your choice. The dates I gave you are correct. If you insist on taking his word, can you explain this? http://www.solarviews.com/eng/halley.htm. He states here "Halley's Comet put on bright shows in 1835 and in 1910." These dates are not 76.0 years apart, so Calvin J. Hamilton has made a mistake somewhere. If you had bothered to check the dates you would be aware of this. Before you call anyone else a liar, check your facts to see if you are mistaken first.

cranial bones (8)
Facial bones: (14)
In the middle ears (6):
In the throat (1):
In the shoulder girdle (4):
In the thorax (27):
In the vertebral column (24):
In the arms (2):
In the forearms (4):
In the hands (54):

In the pelvis (4 or 5):
coccyx (4 or 5 fused)

In the thighs (2):
In the legs (6):
In the feet (52):
---------------------------------
Total = 209 (19*11)

so tell me what type of Glass you want ??? maybe it won't work ( because you are blind) so i will bring for you Telescope with infinity (∞) lenses .

Ok, here you are being dishonest. You've left out the other bones in the pelvis. The four bones in the pelvis are the coccyx (4 or 5 fused), the sacrum (4 fused) and two hip bones. The link I gave you listed the sacrum and hip bones with the pelvis, so you must have seen it. If you are counting the coccyx as 4 or 5, then you also have to include the 4 from the sacrum. You're clearly purposefully ignoring data that doesn't agree with you now.

The Eclipse Year. It was discovered by the Chaldeans that after 18 years 11-1/3 days (or 18 years, 10-1/3 days if the interval contained five leap years), the Nodes have prescribed 19 revolutions relative to the Sun/Nodal conjunctions (or 19 Eclipse Years), at which time, the Sun and Moon will have returned to almost exactly the same positions relative to the Nodes.

An eclipse year is not the same as an actual year. It refers to the nodes. The quote you are using says "after 18 years 11-1/3 days" this is saying that it is not 19 years, it is 18 years 11 days and 8 hours.

the word God is mentioned 2698 and 2698 is multiple of 19 Mr.atheist 19 * 142 . the entire book written in 19 so tell me how did he do it ? without paper or pencil or pen in addition to this without Education.

If he didn't have paper and pencil, how did he write the Koran? If he didn't write the Koran, how do you know that it is an accurate representation of what he said? How do you know that the person who did write the Koran, didn't put their own spin on it?

if i bring it to you the Moon in front of your eyes you won't believe it !!!!

Picking up a rock is not splitting the moon, and the lift off from the moon was at 17:54:00 GMT, not X:54:01 http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_11i_Timeline.htm it's at total mission time (GET) 124:22:00.79.

honestly i don't want to insult you but you are acting like dumb i put brakects to empathize what i'm talking . And for 23 years and 8 wifes i didn't say 23 nor 8 is multiple of 19 i wonder if you are using your rationality which is i doubted !

This is my point. You are ignoring all of the numbers that aren't multiples of 19, and only looking at the numbers that are. ie. 364 days in a year, how many times is the word "Peace" used? etc.