Dogma's Demise
New Member
Okay I'm getting a bit tired of seeing people associating the anti-Islamist and falsely named "far right" movements with Anders Breivik.
Fuck Anders Breivik, hope they put in solitary confinement and throw away the key! You do not fight terrorism with even more terrorism. You don't fight the stealth jihad either with terrorism. You oppose it by non-violent state policies and by exposing Islam's totalitarian political side. (See, the Sharia is not merely a set of morals, it's an entire legal system intended to run a society and organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood or IFE are working to achieve this goal.) That's it. If you have to go around bombing buildings and gunning down civilians you're no better than Al'Qaida.
Oh yeah and for those who are still under the illusion that Islam is a religion of peace hijacked by a handful of extremists, I want you to read this part of Sahih Muslim:
Three courses of action: convert, pay a tax or die... Doesn't sound like a religion of peace to me that's been hijacked by a few fundamentalists. This is in the Sunnah (Hadiths) which along with the Qur'an make up the primary foundation of Islam. Sunnah contains examples from the prophet's life which Muslims are called to emulate.
I'm not saying Muslims aren't peaceful, because many of them are. Just like many Christians tend to ignore the clear teachings in Christianity not to have premarital sex (or try to get around it in some way). But that doesn't mean the religion itself is peaceful or rational.
Qur'an 9:29
All of these teachings have been used by the Islamic world to justify Islamic conquest and domination over non-Muslims.
In the ideal world of Islamists like Muslim Brotherhood or IFE, Sharia law is the ultimate authority. Do you get to keep your religion if you're non-Muslim? Sure, you even get a degree of autonomy provided you pay the jizya tax. But ultimately, it wouldn't be a free secular world and you'd effectively be 2nd class citizen under a fascist nanny state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#Status_of_non-Muslims
We also know from practice that in many Muslim majority countries, Christians and Jews are frequently attacked, their places of worship burned etc. We know for example that Sudan faced a lot of civil unrest over the introduction of Sharia.
And online I can find plenty of Islamic theologians such as these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhxbjnn12Gw Explaining to me how liberalism (by which he meant western liberal democracy) has failed the world and how Sharia is not really that inhumane but a viable alternative. This video was favorited by another great Islamic scholar (DawahFilms) as an example of "moderate" Islam, but I'm not quite convinced yet...
^ And this is the more rational (if you can call it that) face of Islamism. Because there are plenty of imams and theologians in the Islamic world who are far more extreme. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0SW8q3rA94 You'll rarely (if ever) see a Christian priest or pastor talk like this.
Fuck Anders Breivik, hope they put in solitary confinement and throw away the key! You do not fight terrorism with even more terrorism. You don't fight the stealth jihad either with terrorism. You oppose it by non-violent state policies and by exposing Islam's totalitarian political side. (See, the Sharia is not merely a set of morals, it's an entire legal system intended to run a society and organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood or IFE are working to achieve this goal.) That's it. If you have to go around bombing buildings and gunning down civilians you're no better than Al'Qaida.
Oh yeah and for those who are still under the illusion that Islam is a religion of peace hijacked by a handful of extremists, I want you to read this part of Sahih Muslim:
http://sunnah.com/muslim/33Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them.
Three courses of action: convert, pay a tax or die... Doesn't sound like a religion of peace to me that's been hijacked by a few fundamentalists. This is in the Sunnah (Hadiths) which along with the Qur'an make up the primary foundation of Islam. Sunnah contains examples from the prophet's life which Muslims are called to emulate.
I'm not saying Muslims aren't peaceful, because many of them are. Just like many Christians tend to ignore the clear teachings in Christianity not to have premarital sex (or try to get around it in some way). But that doesn't mean the religion itself is peaceful or rational.
Qur'an 9:29
Sahih International
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Muhsin Khan
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/89When the Prophet died and Abu Bakr became his successor and some of the Arabs reverted to disbelief, `Umar said, "O Abu Bakr! How can you fight these people although Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, 'and whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', Allah will save his property and his life from me
All of these teachings have been used by the Islamic world to justify Islamic conquest and domination over non-Muslims.
In the ideal world of Islamists like Muslim Brotherhood or IFE, Sharia law is the ultimate authority. Do you get to keep your religion if you're non-Muslim? Sure, you even get a degree of autonomy provided you pay the jizya tax. But ultimately, it wouldn't be a free secular world and you'd effectively be 2nd class citizen under a fascist nanny state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood#Status_of_non-Muslims
We also know from practice that in many Muslim majority countries, Christians and Jews are frequently attacked, their places of worship burned etc. We know for example that Sudan faced a lot of civil unrest over the introduction of Sharia.
And online I can find plenty of Islamic theologians such as these: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhxbjnn12Gw Explaining to me how liberalism (by which he meant western liberal democracy) has failed the world and how Sharia is not really that inhumane but a viable alternative. This video was favorited by another great Islamic scholar (DawahFilms) as an example of "moderate" Islam, but I'm not quite convinced yet...
^ And this is the more rational (if you can call it that) face of Islamism. Because there are plenty of imams and theologians in the Islamic world who are far more extreme. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0SW8q3rA94 You'll rarely (if ever) see a Christian priest or pastor talk like this.