Fuck Anders Breivik!

[Dogma's Demise]

Laurens, I was speaking in general terms.

But anyway, having a religious party is discriminatory to non-Muslims and also some of the Muslims themselves who maybe would rather answer directly to their God for their "sins", not to a nanny state. There should be limits to what kind of agenda you can have a political party. If you had a party for example whose agenda was to ban the other parties or split the country in two, would you think that's okay?

Now a country that's kept Islamists at bay for almost 90 years is Turkey. They disband parties that violate the principle of secularism. In Romania we banned the communist party during the 1989 revolution. It's almost impossible to form a political party based on say, territorial separatism. Are we not a democracy?


What Egypt needs is an Egyptian version of Ataturk. We (i.e. non-Egyptian citizens) cannot do anything, but we speak about it.

Out of curiosity do you recognize the legitimacy of Partij voor de Vrijheid? (That's Wilders' party.) i.e. are Dutch people allowed to control their borders and be selective about immigrants?

 

[australopithecus]

Out of curiosity do you recognize the legitimacy of Partij voor de Vrijheid? (That's Wilders' party.) i.e. are Dutch people allowed to control their borders and be selective about immigrants?

Of course they are, though having the right doesn't mean the means implemented are rationally sound, or the motivation honest.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I also have the right to gun down trespassers on my property in Alabama that are in commission of a crime by any means necessary.

It doesn't mean that I should blow a kid's brains out for Spray Painting "FUK DA POLICE" on my car.

Now, quit swapping the argument around - first it was Breivik, and then it was a long rant about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. When you saw yourself losing that fight you swap to Dutch politics.

Come now. At least Ray Comfort and William Lane Craig have the dignity to stand with their faulty arguments.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Now, quit swapping the argument around - first it was Breivik, and then it was a long rant about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. When you saw yourself losing that fight you swap to Dutch politics.

That doesn't make any sense.

For one thing, where exactly do you disagree on the Breivik issue? I just told you, he's a terrorist scum who should be locked up for life. Do you contest this or do you just want to find a reason to argue with me?

Losing the "fight" on the MB? What exactly do you mean? It's not my opinion that the MB is a group of religious fascists, it's a demonstrable fact. They are a wretched organization who want their religion to be a dominant political force in the world.

And the reason I asked about that Dutch party was for clarification. Because you people seemed a lot more concerned and outraged about the anti-Islamist crowd than Islamist parties.


But see this is the irony, you DO recognize the danger of having a majority who supports religion having a say in politics. But you'll whine about someone who wants to takes steps to ensure that majority will never exist (such as selective immigration and maybe fixing the birthrate problem, which like it or not, is still low in Europe).

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Dogma's Demise, the problem with your series of posts, which )o(Hytegia)o( and others have been - and are still - trying to point out to you, is aptly made by this video:



Kindest regards,

James

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

There's a saying for this in the military:

Same shit. Different name.

 

[televator]

Hey, guys. Have you heard these stories about cannibals lately? Crazy ain't it? It's just sick, really. Kinda reminds me of zombies. Could you imagine a whole hoard of 'em just overrunning an entire nation? Yeah...yeah...still wouldn't be as bad as ZOMG MUSLIMS sharia law enslaving all of Europe insulting nineelevin!!!!

Discuss.

 

[tuxbox]

@televator

Islam is no joking matter!!! I found a jihadist in my closet last week. Something has to be done about them!

 

[Laurens]

Laurens, I was speaking in general terms.

But anyway, having a religious party is discriminatory to non-Muslims and also some of the Muslims themselves who maybe would rather answer directly to their God for their "sins", not to a nanny state. There should be limits to what kind of agenda you can have a political party. If you had a party for example whose agenda was to ban the other parties or split the country in two, would you think that's okay?

Sure, parties can say what they like. The extremity of their views is usually inversely correlated with the number of votes they receive, so you rarely have to worry about nut cases.

Now a country that's kept Islamists at bay for almost 90 years is Turkey. They disband parties that violate the principle of secularism. In Romania we banned the communist party during the 1989 revolution. It's almost impossible to form a political party based on say, territorial separatism. Are we not a democracy?

What Egypt needs is an Egyptian version of Ataturk. We (i.e. non-Egyptian citizens) cannot do anything, but we speak about it.

Out of curiosity do you recognize the legitimacy of Partij voor de Vrijheid? (That's Wilders' party.) i.e. are Dutch people allowed to control their borders and be selective about immigrants?

Sure I recognise their legitimacy, doesn't mean I support them, but I'd defend their right to exist and say what they want.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I really, really hate Zombies, guys.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

There's a saying for this in the military:

Same shit. Different name.

Speaking of military... any hint that any of these "Muslims are taking over the world" nitwits are willing to put their money where their mouths are by putting on a uniform and volunteering to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan and/or Pakistan?

 

[Visaki]

I really, really hate Zombies, guys.

You're just saying that. Actually you are working to zombiezise the Western World. I bet you will turn into a moderate zombie any day now, trying to say how zombies don't really want to eat your brain and how we should all tolerate the zombie lifestyle choise. After all there is no real, hard evidence that the zombie minority does any more brain eating than the general public, right?

BTW: Muslim Zombies. I win.

And ImprobableJoe, that's mainly because they don't really care about places like Afganistan or Pakistan, they just don't want the muslims to take over their part of the world. Nothing wrong with that I suppose. I wouldn't want anyone taking over my part of the world either.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

And ImprobableJoe, that's mainly because they don't really care about places like Afganistan or Pakistan, they just don't want the muslims to take over their part of the world. Nothing wrong with that I suppose. I wouldn't want anyone taking over my part of the world either.

National Guard then?

Not that there's any chance of Muslims taking over any part of Europe or the Americas, mind you. People who believe that are scared based on delusions.

 

[CosmicJoghurt]

I'm not sure how I "agree with everything he believes".

As I said, he is also:
- nationalist
- white supremacist
- cultural Christian (basically a fancy word for atheist who adopts Christianity as a way of life anyway)

Also forgot to mention his anti-feminist stance, which again I don't agree with. Women should have equal rights to men.

He also does exaggerate the threat more than necessary. I don't believe for example that the formation of the European Union was a Muslim conspiracy meant to Islamize it. But I do believe that with the current policies our societies will change for the worse and become more Islamic over time.

Christianity has been more or less "defanged". Western Europe used to have something similar called the Inquisition and that's long over now.

When is it going to be Islam's turn and when are you going to stop defending religious fascism?

Wrong. Do your research and come back.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Let's see a few quotes of his:

A majority of so called agnostics and atheists in Europe are cultural conservative Christians without even knowing it.

If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian.

I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person as that would be a lie. I've always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment

Religion is a crutch for many weak people and many embrace religion for self serving reasons as a source for drawing mental strength

It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy...)

Read this article: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/186020/20110725/anders-breivik-manifesto-shooter-bomber-downplayed-religion-secular-influence-key.htm

I know how much you want to disassociate yourself from this individual, but Anders Breivik is most likely an atheist or agnostic.

It doesn't really matter what he is, since it would be stupid to blame either atheism or Christianity on his insane actions.

 

[Laurens]

I know how much you want to disassociate yourself from this individual, but Anders Breivik is most likely an atheist or agnostic.

It doesn't really matter what he is, since it would be stupid to blame either atheism or Christianity on his insane actions.

I don't give a shit what he believes, he's a cunt. That is all I need to disassociate myself from him...

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Yeah I was responding to CosmicJoghurt, apparently he hasn't done the research.

 

[CosmicJoghurt]

Let's see a few quotes of his:

A majority of so called agnostics and atheists in Europe are cultural conservative Christians without even knowing it.

If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian.

I'm not going to pretend I'm a very religious person as that would be a lie. I've always been very pragmatic and influenced by my secular surroundings and environment

Religion is a crutch for many weak people and many embrace religion for self serving reasons as a source for drawing mental strength

It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy...)

Read this article: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/186020/20110725/anders-breivik-manifesto-shooter-bomber-downplayed-religion-secular-influence-key.htm

I know how much you want to disassociate yourself from this individual, but Anders Breivik is most likely an atheist or agnostic.

It doesn't really matter what he is, since it would be stupid to blame either atheism or Christianity on his insane actions.

A few objections:

1.- "Atheist or agnostic"? You're talking about two different subjects here, as has been explained to you several times. He could be both. Or a theist and agnostic. He can't just be "agnostic".

2.- I'd say he's more of a not-so-religious-believer who believes in a God, but doesn't buy into all of the shit in the Bible. He's a "cultural Christian", but still a believer, reinforced by his claim... "I'm pretty sure I will pray to God as I'm rushing through my city, guns blazing, with 100 armed system protectors pursuing me with the intention to stop and/or kill." You could argue this is a metaphorical prayer, just an expression, but... well... I disagree.

 

[Sandracottus]

In the promised land shall the drama unfold.......
To see whose drained heads shall see back home
Shall the jugular hang like a villain fulfilled?
Or shall Allah prove worthy of excuse .....

Hey ho , the beasts of Zion
May LoR now test thine truth

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

In the promised land shall the drama unfold.......
To see whose drained heads shall see back home
Shall the jugular hang like a villain fulfilled?
Or shall Allah prove worthy of excuse .....

Hey ho , the beasts of Zion
May LoR now test thine truth

And how is this relevant to the topic?