Challenge : Can you turn me into an atheist?

[ImprobableJoe]

You can lead a theist to reason, but you can't make him think? :lol: (Ray Comfort ripoff)

I think people can be taught to be more rational, more skeptical, and less likely to accept claims without good evidence. You can teach people how to look at evidence and evaluate it properly. You can give advice about not being gullible, about understanding how to weigh various claims and the evidence for them, and how to spot things that are likely to be false.

You can't make them apply it to their irrational religious beliefs. They have to take that step themselves, of their own free will, and in an honest way. If they do, they are somewhat likely (but not guaranteed) to come through the process as an atheist.

 

[Worldquest]

Do scientists ridicule animals because there is a perceived (the point is that it's perceived, whether it's true or not...but I just know someone's going to miss that point) lack of understanding in animals of things that we undersand or can learn to understand? No, they just observe, and accept.

So why is that when it comes to differences among humans, that humans have a bad habit of trying to sum them up in terms of who is better than who?

Do I think I'm superior to you? Not really although I certainly feel that I see things in a way which are more accurate / true than your way of seeing things. But that's not the same as a feeling of superiority. Go to a spiritualist forum and see how long it takes for you to be ridiculed, it will probably take ages on average, compared to an atheist forum. What does that say? I think it says that the material world is so "obvious" to us all, especially for an atheist, that it just seems so ludicrous (and therefore anyone who thinks so must be mad), that there's more.

In some ways I find your views pretty hilarious (ie the material is all there is - honestly it seems a bit naive, a bit like painting by numbers, do you know what I mean?) but I also find them understandable and I don't have a problem with that view although obviously I disagree with it. I think it's the perceived "obviousness" of the material world that gives rise to the ridiculing mentality. I get it, I really do but you need to accept that just like animals, we humans see things in a huge variety of ways. It's part of the human condition to see things in different ways, and that isn't insane, it's just a fact.

Perhaps we should be talking about why, on as fundamental a level as possible, you lot feel that the material is all there is, and why I feel that it is not. Who wants to start a thread on that, or shall I do it? Or shall we discuss it here?

No ridiculing, just conversation, observation, and comparison.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Does anyone here believe that Worldquest is here for ANY reason other than to insult atheists and pretend superiority over us because we're all dumb and crappy people compared to him?

 

[Worldquest]

Does anyone here believe that Worldquest is here for ANY reason other than to insult atheists and pretend superiority over us because we're all dumb and crappy people compared to him?

Don't be silly, I don't think you're dumb.

 

[Prolescum]

Does anyone here believe that Worldquest is here for ANY reason other than to insult atheists and pretend superiority over us because we're all dumb and crappy people compared to him?

I'm not sure why he joined, Joe, but for a while I have suspected a motive that is less than altruistic. Other members who are of some faith or other come for the discussion (although many of those have lapsed somewhat in recent times), but it seems to me that Worldquest's reasons are as murky and opaque as his posts, seeing as most threads he's started are incoherent and directionless and his opinions are sprayed too often with vague platitudes to give an impression of a balanced viewpoint.

He has made a number of comments that are directly saying he's superior morally and intellectually to atheists, but I'd be surprised if this was his reason for staying. In fact, he will probably dispute this because all his posts are like those drawings of heads that are different depending on its orientation; hold it upside-down and it's Santa Claus, other way it's Steve Ballmer (or whoever). I think he's gathering data for some nefarious purpose (see the title of this thread :lol: ). I'm not even sure he's admitted which of the many faiths he belongs in all this time...

I think Worldquest thinks of us as a bunch of arrogant elitists (and probably thinks I'm an arsehole, which I am a bit), but in my view, this is just a misinterpretation of the consensus of genuine annoyance that his posts engender with their consistent lack of clarity.

What say you, Worldquest?

Do I think I'm superior to you? Not really although I certainly feel that I see things in a way which are more accurate / true than your way of seeing things. But that's not the same as a feeling of superiority.

Yes, it is. In which ways are you able to see things more accurately or with a clearer truth?

 

[Worldquest]

Prolescum -

I think you're referring to a post I made yesterday about someone (possibly you but I can't remember) being an atheist and therefore have no morals. As someone pointed out, I was being sarcastic, my point was that one shouldn't make references to holy books where I get my ideas from, when I don't even read any holy books. If you don't like people making assumptions about atheists without asking first, then don't make assumptions about theists. How many times I've had to read posts by people who haven't bothered to ask me if I'm a christian or not before talking about "my" vengeful god.

By the way prole, I think you're very argumentative and you want me out of here. But I'm still here.

I also notice how (here we go.....) some of you here are very patronising, but because it's "your" forum, you can get away with it. But oh, how the "poor me" victim mentality comes out when there's even the slightest hint of the shoe being on the other foot. It just goes to show how deeply insecure some of you are, just the fact that you read into my posts things that aren't even there, while happily patronizing me because, well, if we're going to be honest, it's because some of you think you're superior to me. You simply aren't. You're just different, not better.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I'm not sure why he joined, Joe, but for a while I have suspected a motive that is less than altruistic. Other members who are of some faith or other come for the discussion (although many of those have lapsed somewhat in recent times), but it seems to me that Worldquest's reasons are as murky and opaque as his posts, seeing as most threads he's started are incoherent and directionless and his opinions are sprayed too often with vague platitudes to give an impression of a balanced viewpoint.

He has made a number of comments that are directly saying he's superior morally and intellectually to atheists, but I'd be surprised if this was his reason for staying. In fact, he will probably dispute this because all his posts are like those drawings of heads that are different depending on its orientation; hold it upside-down and it's Santa Claus, other way it's Steve Ballmer (or whoever). I think he's gathering data for some nefarious purpose (see the title of this thread :lol: ). I'm not even sure he's admitted which of the many faiths he belongs in all this time...

I think Worldquest thinks of us as a bunch of arrogant elitists (and probably thinks I'm an arsehole, which I am a bit), but in my view, this is just a misinterpretation of the consensus of genuine annoyance that his posts engender with their consistent lack of clarity.

At best, this whole thing strikes me as the behavior of someone who creates their own "self-fulfilling prophesy" when dealing with other people. They start out with a preconceived negative notion of the way other people are, and then (intentionally or otherwise) behave in whatever way it takes to get people to behave in a way that confirms their negative opinion. In this case, Worldquest talks down to everyone, insults atheists as a group and the members here in particular, and is in fact guilty of just about every single thing he accuses us of being. We're generally a fairly polite bunch compared to him, but he's pushing buttons to draw out the worst reactions he can get. As he continues, and people continue to be more or less polite towards him, his behavior will likely get worse.

This is a no-lose situation for him. If someone blows up at him, he gets "proof" that atheists are exactly as bad as he already believes and his moral inferiors and never mind the fact that he is trolling for that exact behavior. If we eventually just start ignoring him, he can pretend that he was asking his loaded questions in good faith, and he gets "proof" that we can't answer his questions and we're not as smart as he is. In no case will he see that we are anything but inferior to him, no matter what we do.

 

[Prolescum]

amirite?

I think Worldquest thinks of us as a bunch of arrogant elitists (and probably thinks I'm an arsehole, which I am a bit), but in my view, this is just a misinterpretation of the consensus of genuine annoyance that his posts engender with their consistent lack of clarity.

Prolescum -

I think you're referring to a post I made yesterday about someone (possibly you but I can't remember) being an atheist and therefore have no morals. As someone pointed out, I was being sarcastic, my point was that one shouldn't make references to holy books where I get my ideas from, when I don't even read any holy books. If you don't like people making assumptions about atheists without asking first, then don't make assumptions about theists. How many times I've had to read posts by people who haven't bothered to ask me if I'm a christian or not before talking about "my" vengeful god.

I recall you being asked (and not responding) to questions about your faith, and I've read a fair few holy books. I even own a few. And it wasn't me that you said had no morals.

By the way prole, I think you're very argumentative and you want me out of here. But I'm still here.

I am passionate, yep, but only in topics that resonate with me. Like most people. You'll notice that recently I've been making many points about the futility of the anti-theist arguments...

I don't want you to leave at all, I want you to be more honest and less vague, however, what I want is irrelevant; this is an open, public forum and you can say whatever you like within the rules. I neither have to agree nor like what you say, and I will say so without the kind of platitudes you are so enamoured with.

I also notice how (here we go.....) some of you here are very patronising, but because it's "your" forum, you can get away with it.

Being patronising, as you put it, is also a characteristic of your own posts. It has nothing to do with being a non-believer.

But oh, how the "poor me" victim mentality comes out when there's even the slightest hint of the shoe being on the other foot.

And none of your arguments have that 'poor me' mentality...

By the way prole, I think you're very argumentative and you want me out of here.

...

It just goes to show how deeply insecure some of you are, just the fact that you read into my posts things that aren't even there, while happily patronizing me because, well, if we're going to be honest, it's because some of you think you're superior to me. You simply aren't. You're just different, not better.

Well, some people are superior to you (and me), but not because they're atheists.

That you cannot acknowledge this is quite comical.

[...]If we eventually just start ignoring him, he can pretend that he was asking his loaded questions in good faith, and he gets "proof" that we can't answer his questions and we're not as smart as he is. In no case will he see that we are anything but inferior to him, no matter what we do.

Probably.

 

[Worldquest]

I just scrolled through your post without reading a word of it, prole. Sorry.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I just scrolled through your post without reading a word of it, prole. Sorry.

-.-
That's tyour problem, not his.

 

[Prolescum]

I just scrolled through your post without reading a word of it, prole. Sorry.

That's alright, I'm aware of the contempt you hold just for li'l ol' me. :lol:

Seems a rather pointless gesture, though.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I just scrolled through your post without reading a word of it, prole. Sorry.

That's alright, I'm aware of the contempt you hold just for li'l ol' me. :lol:

Seems a rather pointless gesture, though.

And it is also sort of proof of my last post. Just watch his behavior continue to deteriorate as the thread continues. :facepalm:

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

That's alright, I'm aware of the contempt you hold just for li'l ol' me. :lol:

Seems a rather pointless gesture, though.

For someone holding higher morals than you, he certainly doesn't seem to be as respectful as you. Atleast you read posts and take the time to form a legitimate and coherent response.

Once again - I'm theist. But I do recognize stupidity when I read it.

/Pwnage

 

[ImprobableJoe]

For someone holding higher morals than you, he certainly doesn't seem to be as respectful as you. Atleast you read posts and take the time to form a legitimate and coherent response.

Once again - I'm theist. But I do recognize stupidity when I read it.

/Pwnage

Better be careful... according to Worldquest, we'll be trying to run you out of here and stifle your free speech any minute now.

 

[Worldquest]

For someone holding higher morals than you, he certainly doesn't seem to be as respectful as you. Atleast you read posts and take the time to form a legitimate and coherent response.

Once again - I'm theist. But I do recognize stupidity when I read it.

/Pwnage

Better be careful... according to Worldquest, we'll be trying to run you out of here and stifle your free speech any minute now.

That's improbable, joe.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I think WorldQuest needs a better system of relaying sarcasm.
My favorite method is the "/" method. In nerd/geek/programmer/forum slang, the "/" means "end." So I will always finish off my less-obvious sarcasm and satire with "/sarcasm" or "/satire" appropriately.

/explanations

 

[Worldquest]

I think WorldQuest needs a better system of relaying sarcasm.
My favorite method is the "/" method. In nerd/geek/programmer/forum slang, the "/" means "end." So I will always finish off my less-obvious sarcasm and satire with "/sarcasm" or "/satire" appropriately.

/explanations

I suppose it is a bit too subtle. Having said that, some people get it. I just find the idea of posting smilies and silly signals a bit unnecessary. I prefer to cater for the more intelligent among you.

I'm just kidding. I'm in a very funny mood tonight. I'm being a bit of a troll today I know, sorry. Sorry P Scum, I seem to be picking on you tonight for some reason. Don't take it personally, I think you're alright, despite everything.

 

[Prolescum]

I think WorldQuest needs a better system of relaying sarcasm.
My favorite method is the "/" method. In nerd/geek/programmer/forum slang, the "/" means "end." So I will always finish off my less-obvious sarcasm and satire with "/sarcasm" or "/satire" appropriately.

/explanations

I suppose it is a bit too subtle. Having said that, some people get it. I just find the idea of posting smilies and silly signals a bit unnecessary. I prefer to cater for the more intelligent among you.

I'm just kidding. I'm in a very funny mood tonight. I'm being a bit of a troll today I know, sorry. Sorry P Scum, I seem to be picking on you tonight for some reason. Don't take it personally, I think you're alright, despite everything.

Look, you don't need to apologise to me; I'm just some twat with an opinion that's not yours. Don't feel you're picking on me either, I can handle myself

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Look, you don't need to apologise to me; I'm just some twat with an opinion that's not yours. Don't feel you're picking on me either, I can handle myself

Exactly:

World - don't let our bitch-slapping fool you. We can handle our share of trolls, both simple and sinister. This IS the internet, and we DO enjoy voicing our opinion.

 

[Worldquest]

Off topic, p Scum.