Burn a Koran day

[Eidolon]

Some particular cases of book burning are long and traumatically remembered - because the books destroyed were irreplaceable and their loss constituted a severe damage to cultural heritage, and/or because this instance of book burning has become emblematic of a harsh and oppressive regime. Such were the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, the obliteration of the Library of Baghdad, the burning of books and burying of scholars under China's Qin Dynasty, the destruction of Mayan codices by Spanish conquistadors and priests, and in more recent times, Nazi book burnings, the burning of Beatles records after a remark by John Lennon concerning Jesus Christ, and the destruction of the Sarajevo National Library.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning

I'm certain you have good intentions, but this is not a laughing matter or something to make fun of.

I would agree if there were only a few copies of the bible or koran and burning them would constitute complete annihilation of those particular works of literature. But in reality, burning a couple dozen, to hundreds of holy books isn't going to cause too much damage in terms of their literary longevity.

The Nazi's burned books of primarily jewish authorship (as well as others they deemed to be inferior) as a means of intimidation and method of "cleansing" Germany of non Aryan influences. They weren't simply protesting Judaism, or the Jewish dogma's, they were trying to intimidate the jews with a show of force of sorts. "We will burn your books, your culture, and we will burn YOU!"

In the case of Christians wanting to burn the koran, or non Christians wanting to burn the bible, the idea isn't necessarily intimidation (though I'm sure thats what this chruch in floridas objective is, but the overall act is merely a form of protest), but protesting a centralized dogma and and belief system. Its the same if die hard retro star wars fans burned a bunch of copies of the new movies because of how badly they sucked. Its not to intimidate those who like those movies, but to show discontent with the movies themselves.

I guess it could be boiled down to intent, but even that is vague because if you protest something at all, you must not like it so what difference does it make if you dislike it just enough to want to send a message, or you dislike it so much that you want to intimidate. As long as you don't harm anyone, you can protest however you like.

 

[lrkun]

Some particular cases of book burning are long and traumatically remembered - because the books destroyed were irreplaceable and their loss constituted a severe damage to cultural heritage, and/or because this instance of book burning has become emblematic of a harsh and oppressive regime. Such were the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, the obliteration of the Library of Baghdad, the burning of books and burying of scholars under China's Qin Dynasty, the destruction of Mayan codices by Spanish conquistadors and priests, and in more recent times, Nazi book burnings, the burning of Beatles records after a remark by John Lennon concerning Jesus Christ, and the destruction of the Sarajevo National Library.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning

I'm certain you have good intentions, but this is not a laughing matter or something to make fun of.

I would agree if there were only a few copies of the bible or koran and burning them would constitute complete annihilation of those particular works of literature. But in reality, burning a couple dozen, to hundreds of holy books isn't going to cause too much damage in terms of their literary longevity.

The Nazi's burned books of primarily jewish authorship (as well as others they deemed to be inferior) as a means of intimidation and method of "cleansing" Germany of non Aryan influences. They weren't simply protesting Judaism, or the Jewish dogma's, they were trying to intimidate the jews with a show of force of sorts. "We will burn your books, your culture, and we will burn YOU!"

In the case of Christians wanting to burn the koran, or non Christians wanting to burn the bible, the idea isn't necessarily intimidation (though I'm sure thats what this chruch in floridas objective is, but the overall act is merely a form of protest), but protesting a centralized dogma and and belief system. Its the same if die hard retro star wars fans burned a bunch of copies of the new movies because of how badly they sucked. Its not to intimidate those who like those movies, but to show discontent with the movies themselves.

I guess it could be boiled down to intent, but even that is vague because if you protest something at all, you must not like it so what difference does it make if you dislike it just enough to want to send a message, or you dislike it so much that you want to intimidate. As long as you don't harm anyone, you can protest however you like.

You do realize that one's intent is never easily ascertained unless expressed. Not everyone will see this in your own point of view. Well, if you really wish to burn such, be my guest, I don't have the power or influence to stop you. ^-^ I just don't see it as a reasonable choice of action.

 

[nemesiss]

i would say let them burn those books, but for total different reasons.

As far as i am aware the whole situation in the world, is that is fundamental muslim countries they dislike any other religion to the point that they remove any trace of it, banishing it from existance. just to make sure no foreign gods enter their country.
its on the same level of idiocy as this whole book burning, so perhaps through this we, as non-religious people, may be able to shine a light bit of enlightenment into this countries.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

i would say let them burn those books, but for total different reasons.

As far as i am aware the whole situation in the world, is that is fundamental muslim countries they dislike any other religion to the point that they remove any trace of it, banishing it from existance. just to make sure no foreign gods enter their country.
its on the same level of idiocy as this whole book burning, so perhaps through this we, as non-religious people, may be able to shine a light bit of enlightenment into this countries.

Two wrongs don't make a right. We show people what is right by example, by acting in ways that we want others to emulate. Better for Christians to burn Bibles, to show that destruction of things doesn't hurt people, than to burn copies of the Koran as though they are burning Muslims in effigy... which is their real point, isn't it?

 

[nemesiss]

i would say let them burn those books, but for total different reasons.

As far as i am aware the whole situation in the world, is that is fundamental muslim countries they dislike any other religion to the point that they remove any trace of it, banishing it from existance. just to make sure no foreign gods enter their country.
its on the same level of idiocy as this whole book burning, so perhaps through this we, as non-religious people, may be able to shine a light bit of enlightenment into this countries.

Two wrongs don't make a right. We show people what is right by example, by acting in ways that we want others to emulate. Better for Christians to burn Bibles, to show that destruction of things doesn't hurt people, than to burn copies of the Koran as though they are burning Muslims in effigy... which is their real point, isn't it?

showing the right way isn't always sufficient.
sometimes you have to show why something is wrong to get it across and this might be such a thing.
its not that we should be the ones burning the books, let the christians do it.. so we may show how religion can hurt people and the people who are getting hurt by this book burnging action how their religous acts hurts others.


just like the illusion of a relationship.
it's not just love and sparkles, its also fighting, disargeements, shouting, screaming, cursing and comprimises.

 

[lrkun]

showing the right way isn't always sufficient. sometimes you have to show why something is wrong to get it across and this might be such a thing.
its not that we should be the ones burning the books, let the christians do it.. so we may show how religion can hurt people and the people who are getting hurt by this book burnging action how their religous acts hurts others.

just like the illusion of a relationship. it's not just love and sparkles, its also fighting, disargeements, shouting, screaming, cursing and comprimises.

Showing why something is wrong is not similar to doing that which is wrong you know.

It's best to be direct and distinguish the two via examples.

Ex. The Koran is wrong because... The reasonable alternative is... (same with the Bible).

Burning said book does not cure the problem.

 

[Aught3]

While book-burning may no longer be able to destroy ideas, it is still representative of that process.

Leave Bible burning to the religious.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ina-church-plans-Halloween-Bible-burning.html
http://www.haaretz.com/news/orthodox-jewish-youths-burn-new-testaments-in-or-yehuda-1.246153

 

[Eidolon]

Some how, I don't think the whole book burning method would be quite so frowned upon if we were talking about the Twilight series instead.

Would it be a more acceptable means of protest if it were, "wipe your ass with a koran day"?

 

[Andiferous]

:facepalm:

 

[DepricatedZero]

I'm gonna note that it's considered Blasphemy to mistreat a Qur'an. Just throwing that out there.

At any rate, the point of DMD was a cry against hatred. It's the very opposite of what is suggested in burning a book on 9/11.

DMD day was about giving the finger to the Muslim world who uses violence and hatred as a tool to censor their opposition. This isn't about giving the finger to someone who uses violence and hatred, this is simply about returning violence and hatred. It gives in to the Christian media hype against Islam, and does seem like a very Christian mode of thought. We don't want to preach violence and hatred, we want peace and understanding. DMD was a peaceful fuck-you that hopefully brought some understanding with it, at least to some. No matter what way you spin it, though, burning a book is violence and disrespectful. It doesn't further understanding, it's not going to make a million Muslims go "oh I guess that was wrong."

I'm sure I'm simply reiterating what others have said at this point, so I'll stop here.

 

[Eidolon]

My point this whole time has been, why does it matter what method you use to protest? It doesn't matter what method they use. The point here is that a christian group is going to bitch about Islam, which is tantamount to the pot calling the kettle black in the sense that one crazy belief is going to call another crazy belief on its own brand of bullshit.

I'm simply arguing that the method of protest shouldn't matter. Draw Muhammed day was just as much about pissing off the muslims as it was about free speech, because drawing muhammed pisses off the muslims regardless of it was just his face or him making sex to various barnyard animals, and everybody knew it. Likewise, burning the koran may simply be about pissing off the muslims for whatever reason, but its protected as freedom of speech/expression. People just don't like it because it resembles actions of the Third Reich. But Its no more violent than having a big bon fire for roasting hot dogs at a protest using pickets and bull horns.

Hey, if the muslims really want to counter protest, they could always just burn a big crucifix on the churches front lawn. That way, everybody gets to burn something!

 

[DepricatedZero]

My point this whole time has been, why does it matter what method you use to protest? It doesn't matter what method they use. The point here is that a christian group is going to bitch about Islam, which is tantamount to the pot calling the kettle black in the sense that one crazy belief is going to call another crazy belief on its own brand of bullshit.

So why join in?

I'm simply arguing that the method of protest shouldn't matter. Draw Muhammed day was just as much about pissing off the muslims as it was about free speech, because drawing muhammed pisses off the muslims regardless of it was just his face or him making sex to various barnyard animals, and everybody knew it.

Not exactly. There was a lot more to it than pissing off Muslims. It was to illustrate the harmlessness of it, for one, and to protect free speech.

Likewise, burning the koran may simply be about pissing off the muslims for whatever reason, but its protected as freedom of speech/expression.

Yes, but it's ONLY about pissing off Muslims. Theres no point to it EXCEPT to piss off Muslims, and it's unprovoked. It's akin to spitting on Muslim children for the beliefs of their parents. At this point, it very well IS that, as well.

People just don't like it because it resembles actions of the Third Reich.

Actually, I could give a fuck less whether it resembles the Third Reich. Godwin much? I doubt anyone here bases their concept of right and wrong on what the Nazis did.

But Its no more violent than having a big bon fire for roasting hot dogs at a protest using pickets and bull horns.

That doesn't mean it's not violent. You may as well claim that killing a deer is no more violent than killing a quail. While it's true, it's completely irrelevant.

Burning books that you disagree with is deplorable on the level of Al-Qaeda and Fred Phelps. It is absolutely no different than flag burning or attacking the dead.

Hey, if the muslims really want to counter protest, they could always just burn a big crucifix on the churches front lawn. That way, everybody gets to burn something!

And burning holy symbols to intimidate people is deplorable on the level of the KKK.

 

[Eidolon]

Hey, if the muslims really want to counter protest, they could always just burn a big crucifix on the churches front lawn. That way, everybody gets to burn something!

And burning holy symbols to intimidate people is deplorable on the level of the KKK.

God damn! You people couldn't detect the sarcastic irony if it was fucking you in the ass! :shock:

 

[Aught3]

You people couldn't detect the sarcastic irony

Smileys help :lol:

 

[simonecuttlefish]

I'll bet if they go ahead with this, there will be a rash of Christians being rounded up and burnt in their churches in mixed Christian/Muslim countries like you find in Africa and Indonesia etc.

 

[Story]

The protest is meaningless. It would make sense if there was a verse in the Quran that says "And verily for every two towers, hereto you art ordered unto them destruction by flying commercial airliners into them", but obviously it doesn't. There is no where in the Quran where it is suggested that people should kill themselves in violence for any reason whatsoever. There are verses which exhort Muslims to violence under rather spurious conditions, but none of these verses suggest that you will receive 72 virgins if you die fighting. The word "Jihad" isn't even in the Quran.

All these concepts came from Hadith (tradition), which were written down hundreds of years after the advent of Islam. The books that contain a lot of these subjects include Bukhari and Sahih Muslim (For Jihad) or Tirmidhi (For the 72 virgins tradition), but still none of them call upon anyone to kill themselves in violence.

My point here is that if the perpetrators of 9/11 were not inspired by the Quran, then burning it is completely irrelevant to the date and seems to only be based in the emotions of hate and prejudice than any real rationale foundation. It is about as significant as burning the Chronicles of Japan in protest of Pearl Harbor.

To me, the entire protest becomes hateful and xenophobic when you include offense to millions of people on no relevant basis whatsoever.

That being said, I feel they should be allowed to do so, especially if it's a personal thing. It's certainly better than burning people, which would have probably been done if only a few centuries earlier. But defining a day on which calls upon others to do so is just an attempt to spread hate.

 

[DepricatedZero]

My point here is that if the perpetrators of 9/11 were not inspired by the Quran, then burning it is completely irrelevant to the date and seems to only be based in the emotions of hate and prejudice than any real rationale foundation. It is about as significant as burning the Chronicles of Japan in protest of Pearl Harbor.

To me, the entire protest becomes hateful and xenophobic when you include offense to millions of people on no relevant basis whatsoever.

This. Right here.

 

[Andiferous]

I don't understand how anyone who passionately holds the banner for Freedom of Speech can burn books as protest.

 

[Eidolon]

Because burning something in protest (not a person or building) is freedom of speech.

Have you ever burnt love letters from an ex? Or a shitty cd from a band you thought you liked, or all of your homework assignments at the end of the school year? Its the same thing.

 

[lrkun]

Because burning something in protest (not a person or building) is freedom of speech.

Have you ever burnt love letters from an ex? Or a shitty cd from a band you thought you liked, or all of your homework assignments at the end of the school year? Its the same thing.

So you just wish to exercise your right to burn something, even if it's not a reasonable act?