Burn a Koran day

[cheetmeister]

there was everybody draw mohammad day earlier and some of you guys must have participated in it. the everybody draw mohammad day was in protest of the south park censorship and censorship in general.

now we have this burn a koran day and everybody seems to be against it. it's to do with 9/11 and islam

(i assume)if we look at it from a muslims point of view the end result of both events are the same.

if we burned a picture of mohammad in protest of the south park incident and if they drew mohammad on the koran 11th of sept would it make a difference?

is the reason the only thing that's important and not the action?

 

[ImprobableJoe]

there was everybody draw mohammad day earlier and some of you guys must have participated in it. the everybody draw mohammad day was in protest of the south park censorship and censorship in general.

now we have this burn a koran day and everybody seems to be against it. it's to do with 9/11 and islam

(i assume)if we look at it from a muslims point of view the end result of both events are the same.

if we burned a picture of mohammad in protest of the south park incident and if they drew mohammad on the koran 11th of sept would it make a difference?

is the reason the only thing that's important and not the action?

Yeah, motivation is a big part of it. But so is the action.

Drawing something is an act of creativity. Burning a book is an act of destruction. No one is hurt and nothing is destroyed by drawing a picture. Burning books is an ugly thing and also sort of a veiled threat in this case.

I support the right of people to burn whatever property belongs to them, in accordance with whatever laws apply to open flames or bonfires or whatever. I also think that book burning is pretty stupid, and this "burn a Koran day" is nothing more or less than an act of religious bigotry and depending on situations could even be seen as an act of intimidation against Muslims. Why would anyone support that?

 

[Aught3]

I've written about both incidences before and I do think they are quite different.

DMD:

I can imagine one objection to these campaigns might be that we ought not cause offense to our muslim brethren. In normal situations I would agree that it's better to play it safe rather than to set out to deliberately annoy someone. However, Islam has repeatedly demonstrated that it will over-react to even mild satire in a completely unacceptable way. Consider the riots and race-based pogroms that occurred after Jyllands-Posten printed 12 Muhammed cartoons in 2005. Secularists dragged Christianity, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century and now it's time to give Islam a little remedial schooling. A creative arts lesson should be an easy place to start.

Burn the Koran: http://www.leagueofreason.co.uk/literature/451°-celsius/

Obviously the church should be allowed to burn the Koran, why it is a stupid idea is outlined in my blog post.

 

[AndromedasWake]

I participated in DMD because I believed the original statement of intent was to protest wholly in favour of free expression.

The motivation behind this new protest is to obliterate a literary work so that others won't have access to it. I am a strong advocate of letting a work stand on its own merits (or in this case lack of merits) and if you disagree with it, critically analyse or ridicule it.

The Quran itself cannot be the source of all the problems. After all, I've read it and it didn't convince me of anything. The problem is the attitude and behaviour of the people who enforce the teachings of the Quran (and associated texts) on others, and that was the broad target of DMD.

Aught's post sums it up for me. Also, think of the carbon footprint! Geez...

 

[Prolescum]

I agree with iJoe.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

+2
Yeah book burning is bad M'kay. I do agree that they shouldn't be extreme to the point of being physicaly agressive because of what they consider heretic or even a sacriledge of holy figures (such as the koran). But it is still book burning, ok you don't lose much as you would by burning the compendium of mathematical analysis or the book of fundtions of incompressible fluid by the God Brederode (which I would get ofended), but once you do that you are walking on a thin line and passing the same judgement of character when people used to burn science books during the inquisition.

 

[FSAthe1st]

Whatever my concerns are over any religion, I agree... Burning books is a sign of censorship and cowardice.

It is also rather pathetically childish. :roll:

 

[ImprobableJoe]

BTW...

You know what would be a decent thing to do? How about not exploiting 9-11 to promote religious bigotry? Really, this church is playing right into the hands of the terrorists and are too stupid to know it. I guess when your hateful little church and religious beliefs are the spiritual brother of Al Qaeda, you just can't help it.

Why can't 9-11 be "give someone a hug day" or "buy a homeless guy a sandwich day"?

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

"buy a homeless guy a sandwich day"?

F*, I am all for that, let's do it. (but perhaps something more nutritive thana sandwish, orperhaps just food in general)

 

[Prolescum]

Why can't 9-11 be "give someone a hug day" or buy a homeless guy a sandwich day"?

I'd be up for something like that, perhaps a 'make something for someone day'; a card of appreciation, a Chinese waterbomb, a scarf or whatever and give it to someone you don't really know that well. We're all one people and we don't seem to really know anyone outside our family/peers anymore :cry:

 

[borrofburi]

I participated in DMD because I believed the original statement of intent was to protest wholly in favour of free expression.

This.

Also, burning books is a bad idea to me for a number of reasons. (1) unless you're actively stealing them from others, you're merely using up resources to acquire them for burning; what a waste. (2) unless you're actively stealing them, the only result is a form of pathetic protest that serves more as an implicit "this is what we think of your ideology, that it should be ON FIRE" threat than a targeted "we support the right of free speech". (3) it's kind of like saying "we don't support free speech for you fuckers". (4) burning knowledge, even shitty knowledge, in protest seems pretty lame to me; (though on reflection, I would support anyone who wants to recycle a creationist book to do it, on the other hand that's hardly knowledge).

I'm sure there are more, though I'm not certain they're more than mere subtleties, and the above 4 sort of overlap anyway. But the point is: I think it's a weak form of protest that inherently goes counter to the things that I support (unlike DMD, which was meant to reassert the things I support).

 

[lrkun]

there was everybody draw mohammad day earlier and some of you guys must have participated in it. the everybody draw mohammad day was in protest of the south park censorship and censorship in general.

now we have this burn a koran day and everybody seems to be against it. it's to do with 9/11 and islam

(i assume)if we look at it from a muslims point of view the end result of both events are the same.

if we burned a picture of mohammad in protest of the south park incident and if they drew mohammad on the koran 11th of sept would it make a difference?

is the reason the only thing that's important and not the action?

It's not reasonable to incite possible enmity between you and the Muslims. Instead of burning, why not show a better alternative through science, logic, and reason.
Ex. Thunderf00t's videos on why do people laugh at creationists.

Burning a Holy Book is not a reasonable choice of action, because it does not explain or demonstrate why the Koran is wrong.

 

[Eidolon]

Apparently this whole thing is a product of some church in Gainesville florida.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/28/dove-world-outreach-cente_n_662450.html

I say if you don't agree with their burn a koran day, we could always have a burn the bible day!

 

[lrkun]

Apparently this whole thing is a product of some church in Gainesville florida.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/28/dove-world-outreach-cente_n_662450.html

I say if you don't agree with their burn a koran day, we could always have a burn the bible day!

I see, I still don't agree with either of the two choices. ^-^ Despite how both books have no sense, burning them does not reasonably show their lack of sense or application in our current generation. A reasonable choice would be to demonstrate how such book is only a fantasy, or testing it's principles via the scientific method. Hehe.

Ex. pray - rains frogs. Result?
Pray to Allah - give me a billion dollars. Result?
>.<

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Yeah...

I'll leave the book-burning to the religious, thanks.

 

[Eidolon]

A reasonable choice would be to demonstrate how such book is only a fantasy, or testing it's principles via the scientific method. Hehe.

Burning would be a scientific test of principles by testing its combustibility. If its the word of the all true powerful god, then it should be impervious to fire like asbestos or Chuck Norris's beard. The book of magic from Hocus Pocus couldn't be burned, so why not the book of god?

 

[lrkun]

A reasonable choice would be to demonstrate how such book is only a fantasy, or testing it's principles via the scientific method. Hehe.

Burning would be a scientific test of principles by testing its combustibility. If its the word of the all true powerful god, then it should be impervious to fire like asbestos or Chuck Norris's beard. The book of magic from Hocus Pocus couldn't be burned, so why not the book of god?

Historically speaking, what does book burning suggest?

 

[Eidolon]

Historically speaking, what does book burning suggest?

A method for protesting a particular ideology by incinerating its core dogma and centralized source of beliefs, while at the same time providing a most efficient method for roasting marshmallows?

 

[lrkun]

Historically speaking, what does book burning suggest?

A method for protesting a particular ideology by incinerating its core dogma and centralized source of beliefs, while at the same time providing a most efficient method for roasting marshmallows?

Some particular cases of book burning are long and traumatically remembered - because the books destroyed were irreplaceable and their loss constituted a severe damage to cultural heritage, and/or because this instance of book burning has become emblematic of a harsh and oppressive regime. Such were the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, the obliteration of the Library of Baghdad, the burning of books and burying of scholars under China's Qin Dynasty, the destruction of Mayan codices by Spanish conquistadors and priests, and in more recent times, Nazi book burnings, the burning of Beatles records after a remark by John Lennon concerning Jesus Christ, and the destruction of the Sarajevo National Library.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning

I'm certain you have good intentions, but this is not a laughing matter or something to make fun of.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Why can't 9-11 be "give someone a hug day" or buy a homeless guy a sandwich day"?

I'd be up for something like that, perhaps a 'make something for someone day'; a card of appreciation, a Chinese waterbomb, a scarf or whatever and give it to someone you don't really know that well. We're all one people and we don't seem to really know anyone outside our family/peers anymore :cry:

How about "canned food to local food bank day"?

Here's a bit of the possible press release:

"On September 11, 2001...

The World Trade Center was attacked by madmen bent on changing the world through violence and intimidation.

The military response to that act of terrorism has, regardless of any positive intent of the troops, resulted in mass casualties and desperation amongst the civilian populations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

The cost of the war and other economic issues have added to the economic suffering of people worldwide, even in countries not directly affected by the wars. Almost everyone is hurting, and many people are claiming that the answer is to sacrifice the lives of the poor so that the rich can continue to prosper.

On the anniversary of the 9-11 attacks, can we not say 'enough!' and come together, just this once? Can we look to each other for support and encouragement, instead of looking at each other with distrust or even loathing? Can we not be kind to one another for one day?

So here's what you do, because you must: between now and September 11, 2010, go out of your way to be good to other folks. If you have the means, donate what you can to local, state, and international efforts to feed the poor and needy. If you are of more modest means, see if you can't buy a couple of cans of beans or a bag of rice and take it to your local food bank. Look around your house for leftover things that you can't use, and find a local charity that can put them to better use.

How about we all give a little something to other people, instead of trying to find ways to justify our hatred for each other?

On 9/11/2001, we all saw an example of man's inhumanity to man. How about we answer it with generosity towards one another?"