Anti-vax

[Finger]

This thread has me all paranoid now. When the H1N1 vaccine is available, I might pose as a child or an old person.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

This thread has me all paranoid now. When the H1N1 vaccine is available, I might pose as a child or an old person.

I'm lucky, in that my wife might be able to score me a dose of the vaccine from her job... one of the benefits of being married to a nurse.

 

[benoitms]

The thing is anti-vax campaigners don't remember what the diseases we truly fear are like. I want them to come to India where 50% of infant mortality is due to Measles... A disease that can be stopped by a simple vaccine. Our issue is we cannot afford that many vaccines while the US's is that people opt out because they don't remember people dying to diseases and then they listen to people who have no idea what they are on about....

Don't forge our nice and loving black death and the 30% to 50% of European decimation in 5 years... Quite impressive! Cholera as well have an impressive "hunt trophy"

B.

 

[scalyblue]

Yeah those incessant vomiting fits 42 fevers, and 80% fatality rate really puts a damper on your hydration ^.^

 

[Giliell]

I could be mistaken but I'm fairly certain the black death killed so many because people were quite dehydrated.

Don't fall into the anti-vaccinationist trap who will try to prove that just because modern medicine (which they, in essence, reject) greatly reduced the death rates for those diseases, the diseases themselves are not dangerous or that they were declining already before the vaccines.
Just because modern medicine means that you won't die from Polio, but you'll simply be horribly ill for some time and in intensive care and a bit handicaped afterwards is, to me, no good reason against not being sick in the first place.

Something completely different:
How about the swine-flu-vaccine-genocide-conspiracy?
The NEW WORLD ORDER will try to reduce human poplulation drastically by injecting us with a deadly vaccine!
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Yes, I can totally see how anyone in the world is going to profit from killing the well educated population of the western world and the kids (it would make some remote sense if it only killed those over 60 who only cost money ) while the poor and uneducated people in the drastically under-developed parts of the world who don't have acces to healthcare and vaccines will come out victorious.
Pretty good conspiracy to manage for someone who is basically one meal away from starving :roll:

 

[Niocan]

They make the money from the government's leases for vaccines, so it's upfront not after. I'm surprised no one here brought up the the baxster patent filled on:
"Provisional application No. 60/966,724, filed on Aug. 28, 2007"
I don't question the science behind it, I question the companies carrying it out. Sorry, but the vaccine is far more harmful then it is helpful.

Besides, Colloidal Silver is great for respiratory infections ^.~

 

[ladiesman391]

Indicating that good nutrition an sanitation could be AS EFFECTIVE AS vaccination is dangerously wrong. Nobody argues against sanitation, only that too much of a good thing gives us stuff like MRSA, so, please, stick to soap.

You seem to think that I'm only talking of washing your hands when referring to sanitation, when in fact I mean large scale sanitation, for example the numerous cholera epidemics in London around the mid-late 1800's were caused by a poor sewerage system that, once upgraded, prevented the cholera epidemics from returning on such a large scale. The problems created in London are believed to have caused many other disastrous outbreaks of Cholera in other countries such as France and the USA. Even today scientists don't believe Cholera is better treated by vaccination, so "dangerously wrong"? Not really.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholera#Transmission

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_sewerage_system
"The Soho outbreak in London ended after removal of the handle of the Broad Street pump by a committee instigated to action by John Snow.[38] This proved that contaminated water (although it didn't identify the contaminant) was the main agent spreading cholera. It would take almost 50 years for this message to be believed and acted upon. Building and maintaining a safe water system was and is not cheap,but is absolutely essential." - Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bazalgette

And again I'll re-state I'm in favour of vaccination.

 

[Giliell]

Yes, but that's because of the way cholera is transmitted. Good, large scale sanitation and good nutrition help preventing diseases that are usually spread through sanitation and food.
Cholera ia one, Hep A is another one. Totally no problem where I live, but vaccination is recommended if you only go a s far as Spain (hotter climate, not that good sanitation and water quality). TUberculosis (still no vax out there, afik) is another typical example of a "poverty disease".

But measles, chickenpox, whomping cough, hep B and all that jazz aren't transmitted in that way and therefore not effective to combat them. Believe me, I've had them all with the exception of Hep B, thanx to the anti-vax hysteria spread in the 80's.

 

[TheFearmonger]

Sorry for beating a dead dog, but something completely absurd stood out in my scanning of this post.

Paridigm says he considers mortality rates(i.e. numbers, not percents) as chief evidence in his assertion. Ok, fine, but the problem is... get ready... population rises over time. By counting the deaths one by one, of COURSE the deaths will seem to increase. The fact that even in his incredibly naive graph, that the numbers went down after the vaccine was introduced, really shows something for the effectiveness of the vaccine, doesn't it?

His next main concern is the stuff in the shots, murcury, MSG, ect. Even assuming the lab tests are false, that scientists lie or whatever, the vaccine works. I would much rather lose 3 or 4 IQ points from mercury than die a painful, humiliating death from polio. So,... the only main concern he has is that they cause autism. Well, I think that has been pretty much out-the-windowed. Sorry, paradigm, I liked your posts early on, but you have been pretty much destroyed, and you should accept all evidence, whether it fits with your view or not. I gotta side with Gilliel, Joe, Aught, and the others. I now know what the fuss was about at the end of my post, though, so thanks for the interesting forum. I've really learned a lot, like how certain people think poorly drawn cartoons illustrate a point.

 

[TheFearmonger]

Oh, right... forgot the reason I wanted to post

Does anyone know when autism started?

 

[Aught3]

Sorry, paradigm, I liked your posts early on, but you have been pretty much destroyed, and you should accept all evidence, whether it fits with your view or not. I gotta side with Gilliel, Joe, Aught, and the others. I now know what the fuss was about at the end of my post, though, so thanks for the interesting forum. I've really learned a lot, like how certain people think poorly drawn cartoons illustrate a point.

Well, I'm glad somebody learned something out of all this :lol:

Does anyone know when autism started?

It seems to have been defined in 1943 by Leo Kanner, but it existed undiagnosed for many years before this.

 

[benoitms]

I could be mistaken but I'm fairly certain the black death killed so many because people were quite dehydrated.

No that's cholera. black death make your lymph ganglions explode...

Benoit

 

[benoitms]

It seems to have been defined in 1943 by Leo Kanner, but it existed undiagnosed for many years before this.

Yep hard to tell if the so called idiot of the village wasn't in fact autism...

B.

 

[Giliell]

I've talked to high-fuctioning Autists who think that their type of autism wouldn't have been recognized in earlier, less "emotional" times, when empathy and such were not very important.

Oh, and here's my favourite quote from an anti-vaccinationist on youtube:

I'd rather die than take a vaccine any day.

:lol:

 

[Raistlin Majere]

I've talked to high-fuctioning Autists who think that their type of autism wouldn't have been recognized in earlier, less "emotional" times, when empathy and such were not very important.

Oh, and here's my favourite quote from an anti-vaccinationist on youtube:

I'd rather die than take a vaccine any day.

:lol:

Just might get their wish :roll:

 

[TheFearmonger]

Ok, so i looked on wikipedia, one of the best things ever, and I looked at autism. The way the article comes across, it says that a complex mix of gene mutations and deficiencies are the main cause. Vaccine's don't warp your genes(or your jeans) so, why the fuss? Also, it noted that while there has been an increasing amount of diagnosed autistic peoples, this is mainly due to better ways of diagnosing, so... again, why the fuss? in my last post, I was willing to let paridigm agree to disagree, but looking at these scientific articles, wiki, personal stories, ect., I find that the view he shares is dangerous, because it misinforms people and causes kids to suffer, and the human population as a whole to suffer. One thing to think about is this: While vaccines cannot change your enzymes, destroy genes, or anything else, some diseases can, like how malaria permanently lowers the immune system. Why can he not see that? His view isn't just psuedoscience, it it possibly responsible for deaths of other people. And after you get your ass handed to you by reality, to continue to believe just shows that this view is essentially radical, and therefore, the people who truly think this will never change their minds. Call it evolution at work, but it seems bad to kill your kids off because you are afraid a vaccine might hurt them.

 

[Niocan]

Not taking the 'recommended' remedy is not murder, and it doesn't automatically disclude any other means of protection. There are a lot of different ways to prevent illness, and if you guys love evolution so much then let people do as they wilt; We'll see who has the healthier body..

 

[Raistlin Majere]

Not taking the 'recommended' remedy is not murder, and it doesn't automatically disclude any other means of protection. There are a lot of different ways to prevent illness, and if you guys love evolution so much then let people do as they wilt; We'll see who has the healthier body..

Right, so when a child gets deathly ill and the "recommended remedy" is going to the doctor, we won't mind at all when the parents call a faith healer instead. Because obviously this is just another way to prevent and heal illness, so we'll just let people do what they will while they're essentially handing their children death sentences.

Brilliant.

 

[Niocan]

Right, so when a child gets deathly ill and the "recommended remedy" is going to the doctor, we won't mind at all when the parents call a faith healer instead. Because obviously this is just another way to prevent and heal illness, so we'll just let people do what they will while they're essentially handing their children death sentences.
Brilliant.

That isn't what I meant at all.. I was referring to the vaccine and how there's many other ways to prevent illness; Food is the biggest one, Colloidal silver is another (That works, test it for yourself), and SUNLIGHT ("Vitamin" D) is another amazing option.

 

[scalyblue]

Right, so when a child gets deathly ill and the "recommended remedy" is going to the doctor, we won't mind at all when the parents call a faith healer instead. Because obviously this is just another way to prevent and heal illness, so we'll just let people do what they will while they're essentially handing their children death sentences.
Brilliant.

That isn't what I meant at all.. I was referring to the vaccine and how there's many other ways to prevent illness; Food is the biggest one, Colloidal silver is another (That works, test it for yourself), and SUNLIGHT ("Vitamin" D) is another amazing option.

So by carefully eating food, taking colloidal silver and getting plenty of exposure to sunlight will give your body antibodies for Morbilliviruses and Togaviridae Rubivirus? Wow, where do I sign up? You should tell all of your friends who have polio and smallpox about these home remedies that we have known about for thousands of--oh wait...