Anti-vax

[TheFearmonger]

Not taking the 'recommended' remedy is not murder, and it doesn't automatically disclude any other means of protection. There are a lot of different ways to prevent illness, and if you guys love evolution so much then let people do as they wilt; We'll see who has the healthier body..

:facepalm:

Niocan, vaccines are the main way to prevent illness. Of COURSE good diet works, but if you cut out cheeseburgers, that doesn't mean you won't get the flu. Vitamin D is not a miracle panacea, so...what? Vaccines are the way to go, especially for children, as their immune system isn't fully formed. I have not looked at our colloidal silver post yet, but preliminarily, I'm a little less likely to eat metal than I am to let a trained professional inject me with antibodies that have been proven to help prevent and cure a disease. And about the first part of your post, I don't care if you die because you didn't want the hepatitus shot. I DO care, however, if your child dies because you wouldn't let them get it. So, yes, if you don't let your kid get a shot for, say, polio, and they die from that, it is murder. Let's put this argument to the present; if a kid dies of swine flu because their mom believed these people and didnt give her kids the shot, then is it the kids fault, or the mom's and the fearmongers who propagated these rumors? Think about it... Your argument here seems more like a strike back instead of a logically thought out response.

 

[c0nc0rdance]

Niocan:

Why is it that only alternative health circles talk about p.o. silver emulsion? Why aren't the front line physicians taking it and dispensing it to desperate patients? Why isn't it dispensed inexpensively in the tropics by WHO and PAHO? Is someone suppressing it or something?

 

[Niocan]

Niocan:

Why is it that only alternative health circles talk about p.o. silver emulsion? Why aren't the front line physicians taking it and dispensing it to desperate patients? Why isn't it dispensed inexpensively in the tropics by WHO and PAHO? Is someone suppressing it or something?

Generally, companies don't like products that eradicate most of their product lines. It's self survival in the market place, that's all.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Niocan:

Why is it that only alternative health circles talk about p.o. silver emulsion? Why aren't the front line physicians taking it and dispensing it to desperate patients? Why isn't it dispensed inexpensively in the tropics by WHO and PAHO? Is someone suppressing it or something?

Because there's a worldwide conspiracy of millions of people, none of whom are willing to admit to being part of the conspiracy? Or whatever other idiocy anti-reality folks come up with to justify running off at the mouth based on ignorance and stupidity. It is so effective that the only people who use it are crackpots on the Internet. :evil:

 

[Niocan]

Because there's a worldwide conspiracy of millions of people, none of whom are willing to admit to being part of the conspiracy? Or whatever other idiocy anti-reality folks come up with to justify running off at the mouth based on ignorance and stupidity. It is so effective that the only people who use it are crackpots on the Internet. :evil:

The whole "total conspiracy" thing is a fallacy; It's self interested companies that don't mention products that compete with theirs, and as a perfect example: you haven't heard any mention of natural cures for H1N1 but you hear time and time again about this vaccine (poison).
Advertising implies your product being 'held high' and the others are seen as 'inferior'. You can see it everywhere.

 

[TheFearmonger]

Because there's a worldwide conspiracy of millions of people, none of whom are willing to admit to being part of the conspiracy? Or whatever other idiocy anti-reality folks come up with to justify running off at the mouth based on ignorance and stupidity. It is so effective that the only people who use it are crackpots on the Internet. :evil:

The whole "total conspiracy" thing is a fallacy; It's self interested companies that don't mention products that compete with theirs, and as a perfect example: you haven't heard any mention of natural cures for H1N1 but you hear time and time again about this vaccine (poison).
Advertising implies your product being 'held high' and the others are seen as 'inferior'. You can see it everywhere.

Is this really what the League of Reason is? We have to tell someone their is no global conspiracy, only to have them deny that they said it. ImprobableJoe, it seems like this may indeed be your old friend paridigm667. if so, paridigm/niocan, please stop. Vaccines aren't evil, and heavy metal is poison. But again, I have been recently shown that descent with modification is the way to view things. So go ahead, kill yourself. Explore every option. And good luck. you'll need it.

 

[c0nc0rdance]

The whole "total conspiracy" thing is a fallacy; It's self interested companies that don't mention products that compete with theirs, and as a perfect example: you haven't heard any mention of natural cures for H1N1 but you hear time and time again about this vaccine (poison).
Advertising implies your product being 'held high' and the others are seen as 'inferior'. You can see it everywhere.

Poor Niocan. You lack the part of your brain that is able to distinguish rational logic from crazy non-logic. Here's a simple test of what is medically a good idea: What do the most educated, experienced people in the field do for their children? Is it doctors leading your movement, or crazy miracle inventors? I'm a PhD virologist, and my kids will be getting FluMist in two weeks. They will not be getting a superoxide generator/heavy metal/neurotoxin (aka nanoparticle silver).

I've combed the literature for the last two years on PubMed. You are welcome to do the same. Here are all the articles I found on p.o. colloidal silver and human health, sorry it is so long:

1. Ann Clin Biochem. 2009 Sep 3
Unintentional silver intoxication following self-medication: an unusual case of corticobasal degeneration.

Silver toxicity is a rare condition. The most notable feature is a grey-blue discoloration of the skin, argyria, although harmful effects on the liver and kidney may be seen in severe cases. Neurological symptoms are an unusual consequence of silver toxicity. So far no effective treatment has been described for this metal overdose. We report the case of a 75-year-old man who had a history of self-medication with colloidal silver and presented with myoclonic seizures.

2. Orv Hetil. 2009 Aug 9;150(32):1503-7. (this is a Hungarian pub, where silver is still being used like it has for "hundreds of years", of course, so has blood-letting)
Grayish discoloration of the face -- argyria

The 54 year-old vegetarian patient has taken oral colloidal silver for two years to stimulate his immune system. The silver intake resulted in diffuse grayish discoloration on the face. His laboratory values were in the normal range, and no internal organ disease was detected. The histology of the forehead skin confirmed the diagnosis of argyria. Argyria is a condition associated with chronic local or systemic exposure to silver-containing products. The silver is typically deposited in skin, fingernails, oral mucosa and conjunctival membranes. There is no effective treatment for this condition. With the availability of pharmacologic alternatives, physician-directed use of silver-containing products had significantly declined. We review the literature and call attention to the adverse effects and dangers of the widely used paramedicinal colloidal silver products.

3. Small. 2009 Aug 17;5(16):1897-910.
Toxicity assessments of multisized gold and silver nanoparticles in zebrafish embryos.

The potential toxicity of nanoparticles is addressed by utilizing a putative attractive model in developmental biology and genetics: the zebrafish (Danio rerio). Using colloidal silver (cAg) and gold nanoparticles (cAu) in a panoply of sizes (3, 10, 50, and 100 nm) and a semiquantitative scoring system, it is found that cAg produces almost 100% mortality at 120 h post-fertilization, while cAu produces less than 3% mortality at the same time point. Furthermore, while cAu induces minimal sublethal toxic effects, cAg treatments generate a variety of embryonic morphological malformations.

4. Nanotechnology. 2009 Feb 25;20(8):85102.
Food storage material silver nanoparticles interfere with DNA replication fidelity and bind with DNA.

A lot of studies have been done to investigate the potential toxicity of nanosilver. But information on whether or how nanosilver particles bring changes in genetic materials remains scant. In this study, the replication fidelity of the rpsL gene was quantified when nanosilver particles were present in polymerase chain reactions (PCRs) or cell cultures of E. coli transformed with the wild-type rpsL gene. Three types of nanosilver (silver nanopowder, SN; silver-copper nanopowder, SCN; and colloidal silver, CS) were tested. The results showed that the replication fidelity of the rpsL gene was differentially compromised by all three kinds of nanosilver particle compared with that without nanosilver. This assay could be expanded and applied to any other materials to preliminarily assess their potential long-term toxicity as a food additive or biomedical reagent. Moreover, we found that nanosilver materials bind with genomic DNA under atomic force microscopy, and this might be an explanation for the compromised DNA replication fidelity.

5. Am J Ind Med. 2009 Mar;52(3):246-50. (This is a case in Korea)
A case of generalized argyria after ingestion of colloidal silver solution.

A 58-year-old woman was referred to our hospital due to progressive skin darkening, which began 5 months previously. The patient had strikingly diffuse blue-gray discoloration of the skin, most prominent in sun-exposed areas, especially her face and hands. The oral mucosa, tongue, gums, eye conjunctiva, ears, nail beds, and trunk were also involved. Bluish-gray discoloration of all nails was aggravated by cold weather. She had ingested 1 L of colloidal silver solution daily for approximately 16 months as a traditional remedy. Her serum silver concentration was 381 ng/ml which was a very high (reference level: <15 ng/ml). Light microscopic examination of a punch biopsy specimen from her nose revealed fine, minute, round, and brown-black granules deposited in the basement membrane of hair follicular epithelium. Scanning electron microscopic examination showed electron-dense granules deposited in the intercellular space of sweat glands. Energy disperse X-ray spectrometry analysis demonstrated peaks for silver and sulfur in the dense black deposits. The ingestion of colloidal silver appears to be an increasing practice among patients using alternative health practices. All silver-containing products including colloidal silver should be labeled with a clear warning to prevent argyria, especially in alternative health practices.

6. Dermatol Surg. 2008 Oct;34(10):1427-30. (also a case in Korea, details omitted)
Treatment of argyria after colloidal silver ingestion using Q-switched 1,064-nm Nd:YAG laser.


7. Curr Opin Pediatr. 2007 Dec;19(6):733-5. (Denver, USA case)
Case report: skin discoloration following administration of colloidal silver in cystic fibrosis.

Complementary and alternative medicine therapies are frequently combined with conventional medical treatment and can significantly affect patient care. In the following case, an adjunctive modality posed a significant health risk to the patient. RECENT FINDINGS: An 11-year-old boy with cystic fibrosis reported a bluish skin color after he began ingesting a colloidal silver solution to facilitate mucus clearance. Serum silver level was elevated to more than twice the upper limit of normal. This finding is highly suggestive of argyria, a typically permanent discoloration of the skin due to dermal silver deposits. In this child, however, the discoloration was transient and the silver level normalized when the therapy was discontinued. SUMMARY: Although a diagnosis of argyria was not formally made, this case reviews the known dangers associated with silver ingestion. Complementary and alternative medicine therapies are common and can both augment and interfere with the traditional standard of care. Informed providers who inquire about the use of these therapies can then discuss the risks and benefits of each utilized modality.

 

[Niocan]

That belongs in the CS thread if anything, and it's very hard to get argyria if you use the substance as applied dosages when needed, and the seizures in '1' are due to a pre-exsisting condition.

Also, ever hear of this thing called chelation?

 

[c0nc0rdance]

To summarize:

There are dozens of ways silver can kill you.

1. It generates superoxide, reactive oxygen intermediates and radicals, just like smoking, seared red meat, and benzene exposure.

2. It binds to DNA and causes genetic mutations, potentially causing cancer. It interferes with the ability of DNA polymerase to copy your DNA accurately. It kills 100% of baby zebrafish at doses used by alt healthers. It may very well be a potent teratogen.

3. It builds up if you take it daily. The excretion is very slow, and it's a heavy metal with priviliged access to the blood-brain barrier, meaning they will find it in your brain at your autopsy.

We impregnate materials with silver because of its toxicity to living things. ALL living things.

It's been used in the past in topical solutions, eyewashes, wound dressing. So has mercury (mercurochrome), so has chromium, so has tin.

Agyria is not due to impurities. It's caused BY SILVER IONS! Don't be stupid. If you want to try something new, instead of experimenting with electricity, heavy metals, and your body, try having a chat with a licensed doctor or physician that you trust. Does that sound a lot better than taking medical advice from some guy on the Internet?

Don't ever think because something has been used for hundreds of year that it is safe, effective, or a good idea. People died in their fifties 200 years ago, remember? They thought vapors caused the cholera and smallpox that killed them by the millions. They powdered their wigs with metallic lead, and stained their clothes with mercury. Apparently silver was as effective then as it is now.

Try applying the same skepticism to the alt health movement as you apply to the scientific, proven medica. Who are these people, and why aren't other very smart people convinced, even after they read the same thing you have? It's not too late. Get to a doctor, talk to him honestly about what you've been doing, and get checked for liver and kidney damage. It's your health, not an experiment or an argument to be won.

 

[TheFearmonger]

Concordance, don't get your hopes up. he won't go to a doctor and take their advice. he has too much of an ego.

 

[c0nc0rdance]

The faces of home-made colloidal silver:

Sign me up!

 

[TheFearmonger]

What do you mean? They look great. :lol:

 

[Niocan]

*Sigh*
The first smurf added vitamin C and salts to his CS, and tanned in a booth after external applications >.>
The second used drops that where 5000ppm in strength, CS only needs to be between 5-20ppm.
Third was using what they say were silver salts (I assume they added salt to speed up the reaction, though the article doesn't go over that)
You can see a trend here of stupid people doing stupid things...

 

[TheFearmonger]

Perhaps, but what about the fourth, the one that used colloidal silver? He was on some website called league of reason, and he took silver even after pharmaceutical experts said no. What about that moron?

 

[ExeFBM]

*Sigh*
The first smurf added vitamin C and salts to his CS, and tanned in a booth after external applications >.>
The second used drops that where 5000ppm in strength, CS only needs to be between 5-20ppm.
Third was using what they say were silver salts (I assume they added salt to speed up the reaction, though the article doesn't go over that)
You can see a trend here of stupid people doing stupid things...

You have no idea what concentration your cs is. You've not tried to work it out, or even establish if what you're making is cs. I've been over how readily silver ions will form salts. I guarantee that if there is any silver in your solution, a good proportion of it would be salts. You could be the next photo, with someone else saying "Well his concentrations were too high, and he made silver salts in his process, so it was just him being stupid."

 

[TheFearmonger]

No, that can't be true, because he has common sense. He said so himself. :lol:

 

[ImprobableJoe]

The whole "total conspiracy" thing is a fallacy; It's self interested companies that don't mention products that compete with theirs, and as a perfect example: you haven't heard any mention of natural cures for H1N1 but you hear time and time again about this vaccine (poison).
Advertising implies your product being 'held high' and the others are seen as 'inferior'. You can see it everywhere.

Is this really what the League of Reason is? We have to tell someone their is no global conspiracy, only to have them deny that they said it. ImprobableJoe, it seems like this may indeed be your old friend paridigm667. if so, paridigm/niocan, please stop. Vaccines aren't evil, and heavy metal is poison. But again, I have been recently shown that descent with modification is the way to view things. So go ahead, kill yourself. Explore every option. And good luck. you'll need it.

What really shows the level of self-delusion is that they claim that it isn't a worldwide conspiracy, and in the same sentence claim that there is a worldwide conspiracy. How fucking crazy is Niocan, that he would deny and propose the same thing in a single sentence? Clearly, he believes that the pharmaceutical companies have silenced or bought off the global medical community to promote their medicines, and to prevent them from promoting "natural cures."

In reality, the medical community embraces things that work, and rejects things that don't work. Niocan/paradigm667's "natural cures" only work to separate stupid people from their money, and to make ignorant people like him feel smart without having to actually learn anything. Science is hard, so some people decide to make shit up and call it "alternative" instead of putting in the effort to find out the truth about things.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Concordance, don't get your hopes up. he won't go to a doctor and take their advice. he has too much of an ego.

What do you mean? He thinks he IS a doctor. :facepalm:

 

[scalyblue]

Concordance, don't get your hopes up. he won't go to a doctor and take their advice. he has too much of an ego.

What do you mean? He thinks he IS a doctor. :facepalm:

Could be a new superhero. Dr. Silver!

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Could be a new superhero. Dr. Silver!

Or Dr. Malpractice!