australopithecus
Active Member
Not really. While your ability to spell, or lack thereof, has no impact on the validity of your argument, the fact that you can't even be bothered to check what you are posting speaks volumes.
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Josephhasfun01 said:You apparently like ranting on and on about nothing.
calling some one a liar is fallacious.
I did not realize this was the league of spelling! If your argument is a mispell (sic) words sometimes therefore I am always wrong, then you have a lot to learn.
DarkProphet232 said:...and have as of yet demonstrated no true understanding of even elementary physics reveals that this is a child's gambit.
Ah! A summation! So in your attempt to refute you misinterpreted it in a the only fashion that you could by choosing my definitions for me?Also, it wasn't a misquote because I wasn't quoting you, it was my summation of your claim.
Yeah, we're not friends. Ever.
Ah! A summation! So in your attempt to refute you misinterpreted I stated in the only fashion that you could by choosing my definitions for me? However you did refer to what I said in "quotations" in a rearranged fashion. So you did misquote.Also, it wasn't a misquote because I wasn't quoting you, it was my summation of your claim.
It seems that by removing your ability to retroactively edit your posts (something which you were doing, which is why I stopped it) your only course of action is to make your argument so convoluted it becomes almost impossible for people to reply to it, including you
Your failiure to properly define your terms at the onset of a debate is not my problem, it's yours. You don't get to point fingers if you're the one who hasn't defined anything.
[/quote]Your argument is still fucking inconsistent nonsense.
australopithecus said:I'm bored of your cherry picking and personal redefining of terms in order to try and salvage an argument that fell apart days ago. I'll politely decline in favour of letting some other masochist reply to your nonsense. It's like trying to talk to a wall who doesn't understand what he's talking about.
australopithecus said:I'll politely decline in favour of letting some other masochist reply to your nonsense.
)O( Hytegia )O( said:Joseph - once again,
What is the difference between:
a) An immaterial object and
b) an abstract concept?
You come in here, playing philosopher and hopping around playing "hard to get" so I must politely ask you the question that is textbook Philosophical Inquiry 101 in matters of thought, theology, and everything that falls afterwards. They both have concrete definitions, so I'd like you to humor this discussion here. It's the subject that's at the very core of your argument, and I insist that you oblige me in this discussion.
Josephhasfun01 said:The reason I ask 'who is God' is because there are many different beliefs about God.
There's mythology stemming from a Pagonis tic view. Then there is other beliefs in God like the Hindus, Zen Buddhism and New Age, belief. They believe in a pantheist God. this pantheist view believes God is nature. Mythology has it wrong as most all of mythological gods are deemed finite. They can die. Most have not been claimed to have created the universe. Logically gods in this view can be ruled out as plausible.
As for the belief in a pantheist god, this to can also be ruled out because god is cannot exist as material and also immaterial.
God cannot create the universe as himself being the universe.
That is the equivalent to a painter creating himself into the painting.
The only logical view is that of a theist God. A personal God.
This leaves the Christian view, Judaism and the Islamic view as the last of tangible views.
Now we have the task of deciphering which of these three are the correct view. This is not hard to do either. God allowed His prophets' to do miracles. No where in the Islamic bible did Mohammed do any miracles.
In fact there is no evidence Mohammed even existed.
As for Judaism this one can be discounted too. They believe that obeying the law is what God commanded of them.
Matthew said:5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There is so much infighting as to what Judaism entails that no one agrees on anything in this belief.
Christianity is the correct view of God because it is the most tangible as far as it's belief in Jesus as the son of God.
The sacrificial lamb.
The bible is the only holy book.
The bible has stood the test of time
and many hammers have been broken over it as it's anvil still holds strong today.
In fact many have tried to disclaim the bible and all have failed.
It is the Word of God. God wrote the bible. Not man.
God is defined as a great spirit who is infinite in power. Also omnipresent and omniscient.
Josephhasfun01 said:Immaterial exist. God is immaterial. Therefore God exist.
I have never seen anyone successfully debunk this:
Premise #1 The natural laws in which the physical universe follows are immaterial.
Premise #2 God is by nature 'unmade' so He is immaterial.
Conclusion: God exist.
In order for something to be immaterial it must be self existent. It does not depend on anything else to exist. Therefore it is independent of time and material.
The natural laws which the physical universe follows are immaterial. Immaterial is defined as not having physical form as it is not made of material, thus, is not a concrete object. We can not see the natural laws the universe follows directly. We describe them by observing how the physical universe behaves. We cannot describe something that does not exist so we know that laws of the physical universe do exist even though we do not see them directly because we see how the physical universe runs according to laws they follow. This very same concept is how we can know God exist.
Support for premises #2: God is by nature 'unmade' so He is immaterial.
We cannot see God but we know He is there because we can see throughout history all the way up to the present how God has effected peoples behavior and their various beliefs.
Belief that God exist has been held by the majority of people throughout history.
Although there are a divergence of beliefs in God, they all stem from the one true belief in God.
We can find the pieces to the puzzle of God spread throughout many different beliefs from the Hindu religion all the way to Lawrence Kraus' theory of 'Something From Nothing.'
The Hindus believe God exists as nature. The universe is God is what the believe. This belief is negated as a scientific explanation for the cause of the existence of the universe. The Hindus concept that God exist in nature is derived from one of the theistic aspects of Gods' omnipresence. God is everywhere. Hindus mistakenly take this aspect of the omnipresence of God and posit that God is in nature. That's why they believe in reincarnation. They believe when our souls pass on they inhabit physical forms of nature from a tree, to a butterfly, or a cow ect.
The reason the Hindus belief in God is not scientifically supported is because if God were confined to His creation, then He would need to have been created by something else. For example, a painter creates a painting therefore the painter is not the painting. That was a very oversimplified explanation but I feel it's sufficient.
Laurence Kraus has a theory called 'Something Form nothing' where in his explanation he states that long ago all that existed where numbers.
All these numbers swirled around until they started forming into mathematic formulas and eventually the mathematic formulas formed the universe.
Therefore something came from nothing.
Although I don't see how Kraus' theory is supported by logic the basis of his theory that first numbers where all that existed is a piece of the puzzle that fits with God.
When God 'breathed' the universe into existence there were numbers comprising mathematic formulas that took nothing and created something from it. God pronounced the universe into existence. This is proposed in the bible where it states in Isaiah that God breathed the universe into existence. Our God is a star breathing God. He is still your God too, whether you accept it or reject it.
As I have demonstrated, although superficially, God leads to the beliefs of even non believers and other religious beliefs.
We live in a world where much of secular society rejects absolutes. This is the belief of people who don't want to find out the truth. I have debated with people who propose there can be an infinite number of possibilities as to how the universe came to be.
This is completely false as it is self defeating. 'the ONLY possibility as to how the universe came into existence is that there are infinite possibilities'. This makes no sense. First problem"¦this means that there could only be multiple truths for the explanation of the universe when logically only one can be true.
According to laws of logic something cannot be both true and a false at the same time in the same context.
Therefore there can only be one true explanation for the cause of the universes existence.
Only one explanation is true for how the universe came to be. You can't say that it could have been either created by aliens or it created itself from numbers. Only one explanation can be true. They both cannot be true because we are talking about the universe in the same context. How it came to be.
joejoejoejoe said:what is the hypothesis of Krauss? Please explain and I'd be happy to debunk his nonsense.
The reason I ask what I Krauss's hyposthesis is because I don't think that you understand what he is even talking about. I happen to know what his theory is already, I just want to see if you understand it. So give me something to work with other than a video
Laurence Kraus has a theory called 'Something Form nothing' where in his explanation he states that long ago all that existed where numbers. All these numbers swirled around until they started forming into mathematic formulas and eventually the mathematic formulas formed the universe
Therefore something came from nothing.
Josephhasfun01 said:Now your telling me you never said-"you stated his glory is infinite in magnitude"?
Infinity, by definition, encompasses everything, ever. You cannot add to a magnitude of infinity as infinity, by definition, already includes anything you could ever want to add.
Your reading comprehension is awful. If it wasn't you'd understand that I was asserting that the term 'magnitude' is a quantitative description of something. Your original assertion is that you can add to a magnitude of infinity. My refutation is that this is bullshit.
By stating that Gods glory is infinite does not mean that the "magnitude" of Gods glory cannot be added to.
It kind of does. If the magnitude of God's glory is infinite then automatically includes everything, ever. It cannot be added to because it already includes everything, ever. This must be the 4th time I've explained this, how have you not got it?
Therefore since "Glory" is an as not quantitative, by nature Glory is not quantitative in correlation with time. As God is timeless by his infinite nature. ential part of Gods nature it is infinite as God is infinite. Now that we have gotten that out of the way I shall define the infinite nature of God for along with his glory. What God is adding to is not His eternal spirit. It's to the magnitude of is the I really need to be on the same page here with you, figuratively speaking, in order to proceed.
When speaking from a finite standpoint, (as we humans are finite), we attribute the word infinite as pertaining to the timeless or eternal nature of God. God is timeless as He is outside of time. He is not affected by time. That is why God has already seen the end of time as He is outside time and therefore is all-knowing. He knows He will have the final say in the morality of humans. When I said "He created us to add to the magnitude of His infinite glory" I was merely signifying the super-nature of Gods glory.
The universe doesn't follow natural laws. Natural laws are our expressions of how what we observe behaves. They are descriptive, not prescriptive.
)O( Hytegia )O( said:And you have even failed basic Philosophy -
An immaterial object is something that does exist, with recognizable effects and uses - though having immaterial standard.
An abstract concept is something that is the result of purely a process of thought used to describe the universe or to contemplate future events.
An abstract concept would be things along the lines of:
"I observed a rock sinking. If it is denser than water, then it will sink."
An immaterial object is an object of palpable, calculable, useful object such as:
"This magnet effects metals. There is an electromagnetic field that effects all fields around it, causing the effect on metal. Let's make one ourselves, and use this immaterial field."
Now, which one of these two segments does the God of the Bible, Yahweh, fill?
Why?
Josephhasfun01 said:. The electromagentic field is comprised of elements called photons.
elements called photons
elements ... photons
)O( Hytegia )O( said:Sarcasm aside, photons are packets of energy.
hackenslash said:Not strictly true. They carry energy related to their momentum, but if they were energy, they would by definition have rest mass, meaning that they couldn't travel at c.