Thinking of changing OS

[Lallapalalable]

Ive had it with windows, its at the point where I expect certain problems and adjust my habits outside of my comfort zone to avoid or deal with them. And oh lord, the superfluous idiot controls. Seriously, you need admin permission to change the time on the clock? Need permission to run a program I started? Cant wait to do your system update until I am done internetting? Ive put this off because I know windows very well, and change = scary, and I couldnt face being an idiot again. But now Ive realized these other OSs must have support for a reason, and why not give something else a try.

Im aware that Linux is pretty popular, but Im also wondering if there is anything else out there that would serve my purposes well. I see that there are some that are free, but considering the importance of the software Im wondering if paying for something even once in my miserable pirate's life wouldnt be such a bad idea. 99% of my computer activity is devoted to internet or gaming (on and offline), with the rest to some... er, image hosting. I just need something that can run smoothly, doesnt have an army of viruses out there waiting for it and is compatible with at least some decent pc games (not sure what that would constitute, but putting it out there).

 

[DepricatedZero]

At risk of sounding unpopular here:

Try MacOS.

It's picking up in popularity. It's built around Unix, it's prone to viruses but not like Windows, and you can get AV Software for it. You can also get Parallels to make the transition easy and retain game-ability.

 

[KittenKoder]

Look into Ubuntu, it is the simplest to install. However, depending on the type of computer you have, you may need a bit of help installing any new OS if you use a newer OS on an older machine, or an older part in the machine. Ubuntu has almost everything automated, giving you the chance to get the hang of the differences before jumping into the "build to suit" Linux flavors.

 

[Prolescum]

Perhaps you should wait for Ubuntu's new edition, though. It's officially out next month. Hackintosh is fine too.

As KittenKoder says, Ubuntu is the piss-easiest to install. Might wanna run it live from a USB stick or CD to get a feel for it (you can do that).

 

[scalyblue]

Ive had it with windows, its at the point where I expect certain problems and adjust my habits outside of my comfort zone to avoid or deal with them. And oh lord, the superfluous idiot controls. Seriously, you need admin permission to change the time on the clock? Need permission to run a program I started? Cant wait to do your system update until I am done internetting? Ive put this off because I know windows very well, and change = scary, and I couldnt face being an idiot again. But now Ive realized these other OSs must have support for a reason, and why not give something else a try.

Im aware that Linux is pretty popular, but Im also wondering if there is anything else out there that would serve my purposes well. I see that there are some that are free, but considering the importance of the software Im wondering if paying for something even once in my miserable pirate's life wouldnt be such a bad idea. 99% of my computer activity is devoted to internet or gaming (on and offline), with the rest to some... er, image hosting. I just need something that can run smoothly, doesnt have an army of viruses out there waiting for it and is compatible with at least some decent pc games (not sure what that would constitute, but putting it out there).

You need admin permission to do trivial things on non-windows OS as well. Especially linux. Don't think you're going to get away from that.

All linux is free; it's a requirement of being linux. What you pay for is support.

Gaming is a tall order for a non-windows OS. You will need something that works like the discontinued cedega or the crossover project to even have a prayer of playing any games, and even then it's not an optimal solution. The other stfuf you can get working quite well with enough tinkering.

 

[Lallapalalable]

As far as gaming goes, I think I can drop it from my palette, as my desktop is quite powerful and has everything I play already on it (opposed to my lappy, the machine in question, which upon inspection is pretty bare). My only sacrifice would be that the graphics card is quite low end on the DT (compared to this one), but play a lot of older games and Im already used to the low quality for the newer ones.

May fiddle about with the MacOS, didnt even know that was an option as I thought apple made their products only for hardware they sell, at least until the new Ubuntu is available (I see Precise Pangolin for 4/12, would that lie towards the end of april, beginning, second wednesday?). I assume Hackintosh runs like a Mac clone, only it isnt? This would be nice, as Ive never really explored media creation with the freebie windows software, and I believe thats the main draw for Mac, and paying less would be a plus (unless it free, then I guess I have no real choice). But aside from media making, what else does Mac have in its repertoire? My only experience with them is in graphic design, and occasionally playing around with Simple Text Anyway, the only surviving flash drive I have is only 1G, but I have tons of blank discs, so I could try Prole's suggestion if Im able.

Also, any peripherals incompatible with anything? Or are they universal? I dont have anything special, but for future reference's sake I ask.

Also, thanks guys (and girl(s)?)!

 

[scalyblue]

If there isn't a driver written for one of your peripherals, it won't work.

Even if there is a driver written, it may take some work to actually get it installed and running.

In ubuntu, my laptop has a wlan chip that needs a custom driver installed; I needed to edit a few config files before it would properly work, and again whenever I want to update it. Again, not too horrible, but still somewhat annoying.

 

[Prolescum]

As far as gaming goes, I think I can drop it from my palette, as my desktop is quite powerful and has everything I play already on it (opposed to my lappy, the machine in question, which upon inspection is pretty bare). My only sacrifice would be that the graphics card is quite low end on the DT (compared to this one), but play a lot of older games and Im already used to the low quality for the newer ones.

Tons of older games work with WINE and its variants (Crossover on Mac and PlayOnLinux for example). I play dungeon Keeper II...

May fiddle about with the MacOS, didnt even know that was an option as I thought apple made their products only for hardware they sell

Technically, the EULA doesn't allow you to run OS X on non-Mac hardware I think. I am of the view that if you own a copy of the software, you can run it however you want. Seeing as a large part of OS X is MIT licensed anyway, as far as I understand it, you're pretty much only paying for the interface and integration of utilities, so the EULA can fuck off.

at least until the new Ubuntu is available (I see Precise Pangolin for 4/12, would that lie towards the end of april, beginning, second wednesday?).

The exact date is supposed to be April 26th, but I've been using 12.04 (adjective animal) since its first alpha and it's had no problems (except a compiz crash early on - it restarted itself, I filed a bug report). I recommend it above 11.10 because their UI is much better (faster, less retarded to use) this time round, and it's a long-term support edition. It's definitely worth grabbing the beta and burning it to a disc. (handy link).

I assume Hackintosh runs like a Mac clone, only it isnt?

It's just OS X working on non-Apple hardware, yeah.

This would be nice, as Ive never really explored media creation with the freebie windows software, and I believe thats the main draw for Mac, and paying less would be a plus (unless it free, then I guess I have no real choice). But aside from media making, what else does Mac have in its repertoire?

Lots of trinkets patented despite prior art :lol:

My only experience with them is in graphic design, and occasionally playing around with Simple Text Anyway, the only surviving flash drive I have is only 1G, but I have tons of blank discs, so I could try Prole's suggestion if Im able.

Many distributions are CD sized (around the 700MB mark), so should be fine on that; it's only for testing. I remember reading that 12.04 might exceed this, but not by much. They've swapped a couple of default programs and removed at least one big library, so it may well be of average girth.

Also, any peripherals incompatible with anything? Or are they universal? I dont have anything special, but for future reference's sake I ask.

Honestly, I've had very few issues with this over the years. The caveat here is that I speak only from my own experience.

 

[scalyblue]

Don't skimp on a new flash drive; you can buy an 8GB for under $15 USD Retail, much less if you get from the web.

 

[KittenKoder]

You need admin permission to do trivial things on non-windows OS as well. Especially linux. Don't think you're going to get away from that.

All linux is free; it's a requirement of being linux. What you pay for is support.

Gaming is a tall order for a non-windows OS. You will need something that works like the discontinued cedega or the crossover project to even have a prayer of playing any games, and even then it's not an optimal solution. The other stfuf you can get working quite well with enough tinkering.

Technically, that's just because game developers are really focused on Windows, since in the US it's the widest used OS. In reality though all of them can handle games, yes even Linux, quite well, it just has to be coded for that OS. The reason coding cross platform is not favored by devs though is they get funding from MS, licenses and such as well, so they focus on DirectX, which is proprietary. Most Linux users and devs are just not interested in games enough to port the libraries needed to duplicate the DirectX libraries, so game support is shoddy.

 

[tuxbox]

I really do not understand the Windows bashing community, but that is a subject for a different topic I guess. That said, if you are a hardcore PC gamer and you have a decent box, just run a Linux OS in a virtual machine for your basic computer needs, (e.g.., surfing the web, office documents, image and video editing). You could also run a dual boot system (which I hate doing), or just buy a gaming console (which is what I did) and forget about Windows altogether.

 

[scalyblue]

You need admin permission to do trivial things on non-windows OS as well. Especially linux. Don't think you're going to get away from that.

All linux is free; it's a requirement of being linux. What you pay for is support.

Gaming is a tall order for a non-windows OS. You will need something that works like the discontinued cedega or the crossover project to even have a prayer of playing any games, and even then it's not an optimal solution. The other stfuf you can get working quite well with enough tinkering.

Technically, that's just because game developers are really focused on Windows, since in the US it's the widest used OS. In reality though all of them can handle games, yes even Linux, quite well, it just has to be coded for that OS. The reason coding cross platform is not favored by devs though is they get funding from MS, licenses and such as well, so they focus on DirectX, which is proprietary. Most Linux users and devs are just not interested in games enough to port the libraries needed to duplicate the DirectX libraries, so game support is shoddy.

Linux gaming is in a really pitiful state; I'm not even going to get into the ALSA vs OSS debacle here, but there is also the matter of GPU drivers being so cutting edge that companies will not release source for them for fear of letting thier competition get a heads up, so unless you are running one of the few distros that ATI/Nvidia have compiled binaries for, you're using shoddy, out of date drivers. These are idiots who can't even agree on whether an NDIS wrapper is against the spirit of linux or not, while in the meantime leaving users in the dust.

Not only that, linux is simply not as capable as other OS'ses for gaming; without recompiling the kernel you're limited to a garbage polling rate across all input devices regardless of actual clock rate, and the latency involved only goes up the more data you're trying to move through. That's hardcoded into whatever serves as a HAL, and trying to change that requires that all device drivers be rewritten. This is the reason that my company uses windows CE for their high speed input device instead of linux.

All OS'es are not equally capable.

 

[KittenKoder]

Linux gaming is in a really pitiful state; I'm not even going to get into the ALSA vs OSS debacle here, but there is also the matter of GPU drivers being so cutting edge that companies will not release source for them for fear of letting thier competition get a heads up, so unless you are running one of the few distros that ATI/Nvidia have compiled binaries for, you're using shoddy, out of date drivers. These are idiots who can't even agree on whether an NDIS wrapper is against the spirit of linux or not, while in the meantime leaving users in the dust.

Not only that, linux is simply not as capable as other OS'ses for gaming; without recompiling the kernel you're limited to a garbage polling rate across all input devices regardless of actual clock rate, and the latency involved only goes up the more data you're trying to move through. That's hardcoded into whatever serves as a HAL, and trying to change that requires that all device drivers be rewritten. This is the reason that my company uses windows CE for their high speed input device instead of linux.

All OS'es are not equally capable.

Not entirely accurate. Many of the hardware makers actually DO release the source code for Linux. As I said, it just lacks interest and since what's available for Linux is entirely up to what the devs for various packages want to work in and not user demand, there is just a lack of development for gaming libraries. As for the "not as capable" argument, that's just MS rhetoric. You do realize that almost every single web server, chat server, and game server is on Linux or Unix? Linux is preferred though because Unix is pricey. Game servers handle more data and processing than any desktop computer, and that's just the free ones. There are even proprietary drivers for most hardware, available for Linux, and it's normally comparable to the Windows versions, with the exception of ATI which is just lagging everywhere, let's be honest. But the Nvidia drivers have been compared to Apple standards by reviewers and gamers.

Linux is also growing for home computer use, thus increasing the pool of ideas and demands. As for your pretty bold words, most Linux distros are moving along a direction, though they are having to specialize, like everyone else. Even Windows is being trimmed so it can work on more devices, since even MS is fighting a losing battle trying to keep up to date. Apple has already trimmed it's OS to accommodate more devices, though most users do not notice because most users are, let's be real here, not using computers to their fullest potential anyway.

The true benefit, and spirit, of Linux is actually choices, the distros that are sacrificing choices are also losing ground with some of the hardcore geeks. But those like Debian or Gentoo which still offer a wide variety are becoming more popular with geeks. Puppy has become a contender in the arena because it IS choice, and only a coder or hardcore geek could appreciate or even use Puppy efficiently. To others it's just a safe OS they can boot from anything on anything, the kernel and base drivers are only 640K total, yeah, with just the minimal package you can boot from a floppy, if you can find a computer with a floppy drive anymore.

The point is, you are either underestimating Linux because of personal preference, which if that's the case, it's you're right to prefer an OS over all others. Or you have had little experience with Linux as a whole. There are hundreds of distros, and two major and common package servers as well as several less popular ones. There are several desktop environments you can choose from, a large array of open source drivers as well as a few proprietary ones (enough they even have a specialized applet to get the list in Gnome). That is Linux's strength, and it's appeal, it is freedom. I'm a bit of an idealist, and I admit I do talk with a slight bias for Linux, but I also do not undersell those I do not prefer. Honestly, use what you want, but when you give advice to others on an OS, just make the recommendation of alternatives and let them find out for themselves. They can always reinstall their old OS if they find it too complicated for their tastes, Linux is not for everyone, but it is a great concept with many choices of OS, environments, layouts, ... everything.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

True not all OS are equally capable, granted you will like never use those things that one can do and the other doesn't, the main difference is third party software and the way you actually interface with the machine.
You can say that "well you could have done this if insert developer just made y", but bottom line that doesn't matter because "insert developer will never do y" and in the end of the day you end out with a shity system based on hopes, dreams and what ifs.
Linux does have its advantages, very good for servers, not so good for users. If Lallapalalable is having trouble with simple windows functions has disabling warnings and having admin permissions, it is just down right cruel having him install Ubuntu, he would commit suicide before he manages to put minecraft to work.
As for MacOs the only reason I would advise you to install it in a computer would be to prank someone, as it manages to perform the daring feet of combining the worst of both Windows and Linux.

If you want to play games, stick with Windows because those games that people generally wan't to play are just never going be anywhere else, just ain't gona happen. And here is a radical approach, try first to work around the issues that upset you, if it happens then very likely there is an option somewhere to disable it and I am sure that you can manage it to make it a not that bad of an OS, it is not for no good reason that Windows is the most popular OS despite of propaganda to the contrary. If you really bent over in getting a new OS then have Ubuntu on a virtual machine (or dual boot) (because experience tells me that you will want to keep using Windows once you get to know Linux). If you find out that Linux is really what you want, then great, you can still play your games and have cool software on Windows and everything else (whatever that may be) on Ubuntu. If you find (what pretty much I will expect you to find) that Linux is not that good for users then no harm no foul (and get used to the command line because you will be using it allot). Now don't expect that there will be a great improvement and everything will be wonderful and that all your problems will be gone, anyone trying to sell you that is not being realistic.

 

[scalyblue]

Not entirely accurate. Many of the hardware makers actually DO release the source code for Linux. As I said, it just lacks interest and since what's available for Linux is entirely up to what the devs for various packages want to work in and not user demand, there is just a lack of development for gaming libraries. As for the "not as capable" argument, that's just MS rhetoric. You do realize that almost every single web server, chat server, and game server is on Linux or Unix? Linux is preferred though because Unix is pricey. Game servers handle more data and processing than any desktop computer, and that's just the free ones. There are even proprietary drivers for most hardware, available for Linux, and it's normally comparable to the Windows versions, with the exception of ATI which is just lagging everywhere, let's be honest. But the Nvidia drivers have been compared to Apple standards by reviewers and gamers.

Web servers, chat servers, and game servers are not end user gaming PCs, which is the crux of the discussion at hand.

Linux lacks interest because it's unpopular, and it's unpopular because it lacks interest. See the issue there? I'm not even going to bet into the fragmentation issue, which is a thousand times worse with linux than it is for windows, lalla here is bitching and moaning about things like user account control, what do you think he/she is going to do when he runs into an RPM that needs a dependancy update that breaks something else that required the earlier version

You also didn't address the direct concern I expressed with the input polling lag, which is inherent to the kernel itself. Changing the kernel to fix this is trivial, but it breaks *EVERYTHING*

Linux is also growing for home computer use, thus increasing the pool of ideas and demands. As for your pretty bold words, most Linux distros are moving along a direction, though they are having to specialize, like everyone else. Even Windows is being trimmed so it can work on more devices, since even MS is fighting a losing battle trying to keep up to date. Apple has already trimmed it's OS to accommodate more devices, though most users do not notice because most users are, let's be real here, not using computers to their fullest potential anyway.

That's a circular argument; linux is growing for home computer use but it's specializing away from home computer use. The only thing I see with linux is a GPL kernel and a bunch of idiots fighting over the what best way to implement it is

The true benefit, and spirit, of Linux is actually choices, the distros that are sacrificing choices are also losing ground with some of the hardcore geeks. But those like Debian or Gentoo which still offer a wide variety are becoming more popular with geeks. Puppy has become a contender in the arena because it IS choice, and only a coder or hardcore geek could appreciate or even use Puppy efficiently. To others it's just a safe OS they can boot from anything on anything, the kernel and base drivers are only 640K total, yeah, with just the minimal package you can boot from a floppy, if you can find a computer with a floppy drive anymore.

This is a meaningless digression; I could replace puppy with slackware or even freeBSD without changing the intent of what you are saying.

The point is, you are either underestimating Linux because of personal preference, which if that's the case, it's you're right to prefer an OS over all others. Or you have had little experience with Linux as a whole. There are hundreds of distros, and two major and common package servers as well as several less popular ones. There are several desktop environments you can choose from, a large array of open source drivers as well as a few proprietary ones (enough they even have a specialized applet to get the list in Gnome). That is Linux's strength, and it's appeal, it is freedom. I'm a bit of an idealist, and I admit I do talk with a slight bias for Linux, but I also do not undersell those I do not prefer. Honestly, use what you want, but when you give advice to others on an OS, just make the recommendation of alternatives and let them find out for themselves. They can always reinstall their old OS if they find it too complicated for their tastes, Linux is not for everyone, but it is a great concept with many choices of OS, environments, layouts, ... everything.

I'm not underestimating linux, I know precisely what linux is good for, and the OP is not it.

The culture of linux is "Figure it the fuck out yourself." You can see this on *any* public linux support board.

"How do I use this command"
"RTFM"
"How do I do that"
"If you aren't smart enough to figure it out, you shouldn't be using linux"

I gave up on using linux as my primary desktop when I wanted to get a piece of mission critical software running that required me to update my kernel to 2.6.4.
What, no internet?
My wireless card isn't loading... Why is that?
Bounce around forums....no answer
well checking my traces says that ndiswrapper is getting punted because it's denied access to GLPONLY symbols in the new build of the kernel. The ndiswrapper team is emailing the kernel team to fix the problem, this should be fixed in a few days.
...wat...
okay then...linus torvalds got involved, he basically said EFF ndiswrapper, it's not important enough for me to care about, go argue amongst yourselves because it's not going to be fixed.
hmmm
:backs up files, zero fills hard drive, installs windows XP, oh golly gee wireless works AND I can use my mission critical software.:

 

[Prolescum]

Fellows,

You're all falling into the winuxintosh bash. It's not pretty and never ends well.

Lal said both I've had it with windows and why not give something else a try. You've given suggestions. Squabbling, here at least, serves no purpose.

Lallapalalable, let us know how it goes

 

[KittenKoder]

Fellows,

You're all falling into the winuxintosh bash. It's not pretty and never ends well.

Lal said both I've had it with windows and why not give something else a try. You've given suggestions. Squabbling, here at least, serves no purpose.

Lallapalalable, let us know how it goes

I have to agree with you on this and will bow out for the sake of avoiding such a confrontation. Just try a few different things, find the one that works for you and that you like most, then enjoy computing. 90% of all reviews are just opinion anyway.

 

[Lallapalalable]

By all means, if anyone has some strong and possibly unpopular opinions about their operating system of choice, then say it. While Im not switching based on an operational requirement, perhaps somebody with an actual need to change up can read through and make an informed decision. Also, Im using Vista at the moment, with no free access to 7, so getting a more current slash up to date system is really the chief of my objectives with this.

Besides, I was given a number of names, which is all I wanted here, so what else is this thread supposed to do, until I break something and come crying for help :lol: Let the internet fighting begin!

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Im using Vista

Well I found your problem.
That thing I said about Windows not being that bad of an OS once you workout some of the issues, doesn't apply to Vista.

 

[scalyblue]

Im using Vista

Well I found your problem.
That thing I said about Windows not being that bad of an OS once you workout some of the issues, doesn't apply to Vista.

Vista got a bad rap because it had lots of extraneous services, and they decided to change the audio manager from kernel mode to user mode...every company was scrambling to make drivers that, er, didn't crash.