the problem with abortion and stem cell research

[Andiferous]

...

I'm a moron.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

That is all.

We agree on everything else.

*Sigh*

This is not the end-all of any opinion. I am not some hardened religious fundamental that will not budge on opinion or may not think different some day - and quit acting like this is my end-all, problem-free system. I realize that there are some issues with it, things that no one has seemed to adequately point out that has not been answered with my proposition.
But it must be seen both ways. The current state of it all leaves significant, life-changing errors that often leave everyone fucked. Not the good kind, either. I have seen some of my best friend's lives completely ruined - both women and men - and have left promising futures ahead and been forced to live a life in nowhere. I have hung out with kids who have been in the system, one was a girlfriend in high school too. I observed that quite a few of them have some serious personality disorders - even she was compulsively clingy, and I really couldn't keep up with any relationship where someone doesn't see any problem with getting married and having a kid before 17.
I'm not a professional. I'm not a psychiatrist. But I'm not an idiot, either.

The problem that no one in this thread is seeing is that you're all forgetting, at some point, a person IS the result of this entire ordeal, if a solid decision is made. I would rather see less children bouncing around in the world and more people going to college, or along with their own futures. Less children born unto people who are incapable of taking care of them, and then given to a system that seems to be inadequate in it's build for the growth of healthy children is much better than the system currently in place. By fucking far.
The situation I have presented is not solely of finances - I have said that many times, over and over again. It makes everyone think about the situation before, and stating "I can handle this shit" before having a child. Both people.
Both people choose to have sex. Both people have input on the decision from beginning to end.

---------------------------------------------------------

No. I would not have surgery for a short-time requirement that can be resolved. It's like asking if you should have your tonsils removed if you don't want tonsillitis - you won't get tonsillitis, but you're getting your mouth chopped open for something that could possibly happen as a result, instead of insisting that a few pills and a condom can be used instead.

 

[Prolescum]

That is all.

We agree on everything else.

*Sigh*

This is not the end-all of any opinion.

Yet you've been unwilling to talk about the consequences of your statements as if they don't matter.

I am not some hardened religious fundamental that will not budge on opinion or may not think different some day - and quit acting like this is my end-all, problem-free system.

I'm not. I asked questions which led directly from your statements. As noted.

I realize that there are some issues with it, things that no one has seemed to adequately point out that has not been answered with my proposition.

With respect, they have.

But it must be seen both ways. The current state of it all leaves significant, life-changing errors that often leave everyone fucked. Not the good kind, either. I have seen some of my best friend's lives completely ruined - both women and men - and have left promising futures ahead and been forced to live a life in nowhere.

Yes, they took responsibility for their actions. Good, honourable people.

I'm not a professional. I'm not a psychiatrist. But I'm not an idiot, either.

The problem that no one in this thread is seeing is that you're all forgetting, at some point, a person IS the result of this entire ordeal, if a solid decision is made. I would rather see less children bouncing around in the world and more people going to college, or along with their own futures. Less children born unto people who are incapable of taking care of them, and then given to a system that seems to be inadequate in it's build for the growth of healthy children is much better than the system currently in place. By fucking far.

This isn't an answer to the questions asked.

The situation I have presented is not solely of finances - I have said that many times, over and over again.

Yes it's about you forcing your choice upon others and unwillingness to accept certain factors are beyond your control.

It makes everyone think about the situation before, and stating "I can handle this shit" before having a child. Both people.
Both people choose to have sex. Both people have input on the decision from beginning to end.

Agreed but your choices aren't the same. The risks aren't the same. The results aren't the same. There are valid reasons to refuse your order of taking contraceptives. Do you carry on and fuck regardless or do you refuse to give the Hytegia bone?

No. I would not have surgery for a short-time requirement that can be resolved.

By force

It's like asking if you should have your tonsils removed if you don't want tonsillitis

No it isn't. As you've pointed out, tonsils are removed.

This is all lovely but still doesn't answer my questions.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Yet you've been unwilling to talk about the consequences of your statements as if they don't matter.

What consequences of the statement?
OH NO. PEOPLE ARE FORCED TO THINK ABOUT THEIR ACTIONS.

:|

With respect, they have.

What has been said that directly relates to my ideal of a two-party decision system in regards to ANYTHING I've actually implicated? What problems could arise outside of it?
All anyone has stated is misc. gabbly-gook with little relation to how the system wouldn't, or would, work - and more about how it makes your heart go all achey-breakie.

Yes, they took responsibility for their actions. Good, honourable people.

I came from Alabama. The general outset idea is that Abortion = bad 100% of the time.
>.>
If abortions were a simple, and standard procedure then I would predict that we would have a lot less cases like this - and moreso if both claimants realized "... Wut? I can't pay for this shit. Can you?"
Both sides should be able to be interactive in the process. The woman can have a say all she wants to, and can end it anytime she wants to, when it comes to her own health and well-being (and future).

I'm not a professional. I'm not a psychiatrist. But I'm not an idiot, either.

The problem that no one in this thread is seeing is that you're all forgetting, at some point, a person IS the result of this entire ordeal, if a solid decision is made. I would rather see less children bouncing around in the world and more people going to college, or along with their own futures. Less children born unto people who are incapable of taking care of them, and then given to a system that seems to be inadequate in it's build for the growth of healthy children is much better than the system currently in place. By fucking far.

*Ignoring the entire point of the reason I hold this mindset*

Noted.

Yes it's about you forcing your choice upon others and unwillingness to accept certain factors are beyond your control.

Can I sign YOU up for the loan on the mansion, then?
Or are you going to force your choice upon others and are not willing to accept certain factors beyond your control?

Agreed but your choices aren't the same. The risks aren't the same. The results aren't the same. There are valid reasons to refuse your order of taking contraceptives. Do you carry on and fuck regardless or do you refuse to give the Hytegia bone?

First off:
Who said I forced them to? >.>
I'm pretty sure Earlier in this thread that I made it clear that I only slept with people I knew, generally, and that I know are good for it. It's not like I go out to the bar, snag, and shag another woman every night.
The only time that it was on a dime, it was discussed while sitting over a post-awesomesauce waffle breakfast. It was accepted that it was a good idea just to make sure.
The best fun is responsible fun.

By force

By asking nicely. And you ignored the initial point of your shrug-off of the statement.

No it isn't. As you've pointed out, tonsils are removed.

Except now imagine that I require my tonsils back and at full-functionality.

Opps.

 

[Demojen]

So I'm asking you to clarify your position on this specific point:
If you say "no human has the right to financial support", what do you mean?
Do you mean that this right is not granted in any society? (Which I think I have disproved)
Do you mean that this right doesn't exist in the Universal Declaration of HUman Rights and is therefore not a human right?
Do you think that this shouldn't be a right that should be fought for?

I am not discarding that laws exist in various countries that promote the rights of children to financial support. I contend that those rights are so loose a weave that the only way they've ever been granted has been through a system of corruption that itself doesn't recognize the welfare of children (not just children in the system, but all children in the country) as much as it recognizes its own welfare trying to compensate for its failure to address the actual problem by changing the argument.

If this system were fair and recognized the rights of all children to financial support, it wouldn't have to conflict with the autonomy of free acting citizens. As it stands, rape victims are being made to pay child support and that is not okay. The court systems stick their nose up in the air at adoption and foster care programs. Governments grossly underfund them and promote undereducated guardians to operate them. It is a system seemingly designed to fail, constantly being undermined by partisan politics.

With that, these "rights" are pretentious at best. While you may be able to stand infront of a judge and argue these rights for yourself and your own children, many children can't. You've probably heard of the concept "falling through the cracks" as it applies to social security, welfare and the wellbeing of children. It's a big problem. It happens a lot more than it is admitted to. It undermines any claim to rights we may have been granted by the government.

Your rights are a pipe dream realized sparingly and only incidental to the competence of the people who advocate for you.

It is an ideal worth fighting for, but never should it be assumed a given. Never should we rest on the assumption that we have it while our people struggle from inequality.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.-Thomas Jefferson

 

[Giliell]

@Demojen
OK, I now see what you mean and actually agree with a lot of what you're saying.
It's just that this would have required a good amount of leglimancy to deduct that from your statement.

 

[Welshidiot]

All anyone has stated is misc. gabbly-gook with little relation to how the system wouldn't, or would, work - and more about how it makes your heart go all achey-breakie.

You are either blind or a damned liar!

Gilliel, Prole, Story, Wark, and myself have all asked you to explain how your new system would work, and you have failed to do so.

Gilliel, Prole and myself have all explained to you why the issue of pregnancy and female reproductive rights are dealt with they way they currently are, and you appear to have ignored every word of what we wrote, and dismissed it all as variously "achey-brakey hearts", "hyped up statistical differences", and even "Christian Fundamentalism"! Talk about strawman bullshit!

You've peppered your posts with insulting and dismissive language, (and I'm talking about how you've replied to everyone, not just me), whilst at the same time ignoring vast portions of the calm, thoughtful, and informative responses you've been given.

The post quoted above is the biggest piece of bullshit you've written so far, and IMO is definitely an insult to the intelligence of everyone else who has taken part in this thread.

As did this: http://www.leagueofreason.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=114190#p114190

I have refined my methods.
Ponies are the answer to life's brick-wall arguments.

All you've done in this thread is repeat the refrain "it's not fair" over and over again like a cracked record. How's that for a "brick-wall argument"?

Go back and read through this thread properly before you "contribute" any further, and stop insulting everyone's intelligence.





EDIT: I almost forgot......

VASECTOMIES ARE REVERSIBLE​

 

[Prolescum]

What consequences of the statement?

That she might refuse.

What has been said that directly relates to my ideal of a two-party decision system in regards to ANYTHING I've actually implicated?

That she could refuse. Your answer was that the man just writes on a matchbook that he absolves himself. Well rounded policy there.

What problems could arise outside of it?

Stated and stated again.

All anyone has stated is misc. gabbly-gook with little relation to how the system wouldn't, or would, work - and more about how it makes your heart go all achey-breakie.

And this blasé attitude is why you do not understand. Either that or it's just bravado. I think the latter, personally. If you would, please go through and re-read some of the issues Welshidiot, Gilliel and I have brought up. Once you've done this, do you still contend that their points have little relation to the system you propose?

I came from Alabama. The general outset idea is that Abortion = bad 100% of the time.

So what? I live on the south coast of England where most people are gay and work in the media.

If abortions were a simple, and standard procedure then I would predict that we would have a lot less cases like this - and moreso if both claimants realized "... Wut? I can't pay for this shit. Can you?"

That's why if you're that scared, you should keep your pecker to yourself. I recall a similar comment by Welshidiot saying the same which was ridiculed as a retread of fundamentalist reasoning. Abstinence is the only guarantee. If not, you take the consequences of your lust on the chin. Metaphorically.

Both sides should be able to be interactive in the process.

I agree.

The woman can have a say all she wants to, and can end it anytime she wants to, when it comes to her own health and well-being (and future).

Except when you make her take the pill, of course.

The problem that no one in this thread is seeing is that you're all forgetting, at some point, a person IS the result of this entire ordeal, if a solid decision is made.

I don't think so.

I would rather see less children bouncing around in the world and more people going to college, or along with their own futures.

Fair enough, but singing your own praises when you're tone deaf is probably not wise.

Less children born unto people who are incapable of taking care of them, and then given to a system that seems to be inadequate in it's build for the growth of healthy children is much better than the system currently in place. By fucking far.

That's a bit garbled dude, but if I understand correctly, take that up with your congressman.

*Ignoring the entire point of the reason I hold this mindset*

That's why you make them, is it? Altruistic to the (bell) end.

Can I sign YOU up for the loan on the mansion, then?

Shite analogies aren't doing you any favours.

First off:
Who said I forced them to?

You. I've quoted a number of your posts.

I'm pretty sure Earlier in this thread that I made it clear that I only slept with people I knew, generally, and that I know are good for it.

Well, this unbelievable story is neither here nor there; you said numerous times that you make them take it. You sit there and watch, in fact.

It's not like I go out to the bar, snag, and shag another woman every night.

I suspect not.

The only time that it was on a dime, it was discussed while sitting over a post-awesomesauce waffle breakfast. It was accepted that it was a good idea just to make sure.
The best fun is responsible fun.

I can't disagree there.

By asking nicely. And you ignored the initial point of your shrug-off of the statement.

No it isn't. As you've pointed out, tonsils are removed.

Except now imagine that I require my tonsils back and at full-functionality.

It was a suggestion, not a prerequisite.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Ahem.

Everyone in this thread:
I apologize for my behavior based upon selfish motives. After a nice, long run and a good bit of conversation with some of my female friends, I have come to two conclusions -
1) Both sides must share an equal part in pregnancy-prevention.
2) It should actually be her choice, no matter what the outcome. The joke she made was, if you didn't want this to happen just don't give her your real name. :lol:

I am sorry for behaving like an asshat - and after reviewing my posts I do see that I have been nothing but a douchebag for several pages. And I apologize for any brain damage induced by constant facepalming that I, now, am doing.

My participation in this thread is all but ended as of now. :|

 

[Prolescum]

I was a bit harsh.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

I was a bit harsh.

Apologizing for stomping out stupidity?
Fuck, Prole - you're losing your edge. Rereading my responses, I would have been more insulted if you DIDN'T stomp my petty antics into the ground.

:lol:

 

[Welshidiot]

@ Hytegia

That was a big apology, and for my part I thank you for it.

Bygones.

 

[Prolescum]

I was a bit harsh.

Apologizing for stomping out stupidity?
Fuck, Prole - you're losing your edge. Rereading my responses, I would have been more insulted if you DIDN'T stomp my petty antics into the ground.

:lol:

That wasn't an apology, only recognising publicly that I was a bit harsh

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

That wasn't an apology, only recognising publicly that I was a bit harsh

Good. I was beginning to think that this forum was about to get boring. :lol:

 

[Giliell]

Wholeheartedly acceped and kudos for it.

 

[Story]

*Be's Awesome*

Tons of respect for that! It's rare you see threads end like this...

No wait. No thread has ever ended like this in the history of the internet.

WHAT DID THOSE WOMEN SAY TO YOU?!!?

 

[nasher168]

WHAT DID THOSE WOMEN SAY TO YOU?!!?

Never mind that. I'm curious as to just how large and pointy a weapon they used.

 

[Andiferous]

*Be's Awesome*

Tons of respect for that! It's rare you see threads end like this...

No wait. No thread has ever ended like this in the history of the internet.

WHAT DID THOSE WOMEN SAY TO YOU?!!?

It doesn't matter for sure. I love these women and their pointys already.