Talk about rationality INVADED BY 9/11 Truthers

[IamtheVOICE123]

I doubt the report by Robert Kennedy will impress me I know all about the crap he spouts about vaccines. However, if you post it I will read it and respond.

Well here is a qoute from the report and a link to the institute for vaccine safety

When a study revealed that mercury in childhood vaccines may have caused autism in thousands of kids, the government rushed to conceal the data -- and to prevent parents from suing drug companies for their role in the epidemic.

Since 1991, when the CDC and the FDA had recommended that three additional vaccines laced with the preservative be given to extremely young infants -- in one case, within hours of birth -- the estimated number of cases of autism had increased fifteenfold, from one in every 2,500 children to one in 166 children.
...

In fact, the government has proved to be far more adept at handling the damage than at protecting children's health. The CDC paid the Institute of Medicine to conduct a new study to whitewash the risks of thimerosal, ordering researchers to "rule out" the chemical's link to autism. It withheld Verstraeten's findings, even though they had been slated for immediate publication, and told other scientists that his original data had been "lost" and could not be replicated. And to thwart the Freedom of Information Act, it handed its giant database of vaccine records over to a private company, declaring it off-limits to researchers. By the time Verstraeten finally published his study in 2003, he had gone to work for GlaxoSmithKline and reworked his data to bury the link between thimerosal and autism.
...

The drug companies are also getting help from powerful lawmakers in Washington. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, who has received $873,000 in contributions from the pharmaceutical industry, has been working to immunize vaccine makers from liability in 4,200 lawsuits that have been filed by the parents of injured children. On five separate occasions, Frist has tried to seal all of the government's vaccine-related documents -- including the Simpsonwood transcripts -- and shield Eli Lilly, the developer of thimerosal, from subpoenas. In 2002, the day after Frist quietly slipped a rider known as the "Eli Lilly Protection Act" into a homeland security bill, the company contributed $10,000 to his campaign and bought 5,000 copies of his book on bioterrorism. Congress repealed the measure in 2003 -- but earlier this year, Frist slipped another provision into an anti-terrorism bill that would deny compensation to children suffering from vaccine-related brain disorders. "The lawsuits are of such magnitude that they could put vaccine producers out of business and limit our capacity to deal with a biological attack by terrorists," says Andy Olsen, a legislative assistant to Frist.

Even many conservatives are shocked by the government's effort to cover up the dangers of thimerosal. Rep. Dan Burton, a Republican from Indiana, oversaw a three-year investigation of thimerosal after his grandson was diagnosed with autism. "Thimerosal used as a preservative in vaccines is directly related to the autism epidemic," his House Government Reform Committee concluded in its final report. "This epidemic in all probability may have been prevented or curtailed had the FDA not been asleep at the switch regarding a lack of safety data regarding injected thimerosal, a known neurotoxin." The FDA and other public-health agencies failed to act, the committee added, out of "institutional malfeasance for self protection" and "misplaced protectionism of the pharmaceutical industry."

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm

I'll look for the official report and see about linking it. I believe it was in a book as well, I'll see if I can find an e-version for yah.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

I doubt the report by Robert Kennedy will impress me I know all about the crap he spouts about vaccines. However, if you post it I will read it and respond.Yes, I know about thimerosal if you remember I was the one who first mentioned it. There has never been any link established between thimerosal and autism.

All the autism conspiracy stuff comes from idiots and liars. It really pisses me off, that morons make stupid claims about any links between autism and vaccines... my nephew is autistic, and I'm sick to tears of mentally ill arseholes using my nephew to prop up their anti-expert delusions.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

All the autism conspiracy stuff comes from idiots and liars. It really pisses me off, that morons make stupid claims about any links between autism and vaccines... my nephew is autistic, and I'm sick to tears of mentally ill arseholes using my nephew to prop up their anti-expert delusions.

Actually the argument began that too much high level's of mercury can cause brain damage, then it eventually stemmed into "Vaccines cause autism" which is ridiculous. I agree with you though; it is sickening they would use such a thing ploy though. However their are scientists who do agree that to much level's of mercury in a mercury based preservative canse cause autism. That was the original danger of it all; and then people and the media got a hold of it and blew it out of proportion.

 

[Aught3]

Actually the argument began that too much high level's of mercury can cause brain damage, then it eventually stemmed into "Vaccines cause autism" which is ridiculous.

What. The. Fuck! That's my position, why the hell were you spouting off all this nonsense about vaccines if you knew it was ridiculous?

I'm with Joe, you can't out-argue crazy. Are you sure you're not trolling?

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

What. The. Fuck! That's my position, why the hell were you spouting off all this nonsense about vaccines if you new it was ridiculous?

I'm with Joe, you can't out-argue crazy. Are you sure you're not trolling?

I suppose my position on specific subjects is hard to grasp considering I look at it from a logical perspective.

In all honesty; I am not trolling; if I was I would be just throwing out constant insults and would not be a members of the anti-censorship and anti-trolling group on youtube. I despise trolls. However if I am wrong about a subject people can point it out and tell me where to find the correct source. However, people do not seem to do that and are more prone to ridicule and argument's like how improbablejoe is being towards my stance on the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement.

Someone should tell him that having a fixed view on a subject and stating that nothing will change his mind is not healthy. I demand evidence and so far most of the evidence I have viewed towards skepticism (with one exception which was evolution, and no I was never a creationist, I just had a misconception of what evolution is; my thanks to thunderf00t and AaronRa on that).

 

[Aught3]

I suppose my position on specific subjects is hard to grasp considering I look at it from a logical perspective.

Oh, come on! All your positions are illogical conspriacy theories.

Someone should tell him that having a fixed view on a subject and stating that nothing will change his mind is not healthy. I demand evidence and so far most of the evidence I have viewed towards skepticism

You're saying the right things but I don't think your brain is listening.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

Oh, come on! All your positions are illogical conspriacy theories.

Please elaborate.

You're saying the right things but I don't think your brain is listening.

So far I have provided specific things for the reasons why I believe them. The only response is that I ever get is something along the lines of "They're wrong and not correct." I am paraphrasing here but that is the jest of it.

However for the collapse of the towers, I think the whole argument falls apart when you realize that the fuel used in the 757 among others are carosine based jet fuel (which will hardly ever reach 500c.)

That is why I am skeptic that the fires weakened the steel when the weakening point without fire protection is 1200c I believe. So the thought of me believing that 500c was supposed to weaken industrial structured steel that takes 1200c to weaken is kind of a weak argument. Not to mention the fact that WTC 7 had a multicore column holding the inside as it was supported inside and out by structural steel, so the idea of a fire taking out a critical core collumn does not make sense. I have talked to several demolition and pyrotechnics about this and they agree that the scenario given seems very unlikely without the possibility of planted explosives.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

You're saying the right things but I don't think your brain is listening.

What's the famous movie quote? "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

 

[Aught3]

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Yeah, that about sums it up :lol:

Aught3 wrote:
Oh, come on! All your positions are illogical conspriacy theories.

Please elaborate.

-9/11 as an inside job
-vaccines cause autism
-cloned eye
-molecular teleportation
-climate change (edit: thanks Joe)

You post no evidence or source until badgered into it, the source usually turns out to be discredited or not an expert (e.g., Robert Kennedy), and your understanding of the subjects seems to be woefully inadequate to even properly form an opinion.

Oh, almost forgot the biggest one of all
-the venus project/zeitgeist

You couldn't even work out that you were an atheist and call yourself 'agnostic', and created yet another of your meaningless threads on that very topic.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

You post no evidence or source until badgered into it, and your understanding seems to be woefully inadequate to even properly form an opinion.

And that is what I guess pisses me off the most. Sure, it is an insult to those of us who actually educate ourselves on issues... IamtheVOICE123 admitted earlier that while he completely rejects Anthropomorphic Global Warming, he has not actually bothered to investigate it. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

The real insult is towards real scientists... real experts who have devoted their lives to learning, and who have achieved the highest levels of stature in their fields, only to be dismissed by ignorant people on the Internet who reject expertise in favor of whatever conspiracy stupidity makes up for their personality defects.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

Please elaborate.

-9/11 as an inside job
-vaccines cause autism
-cloned eye
-molecular teleportation
-climate change (edit: thanks Joe)

You post no evidence or source until badgered into it, the source usually turns out to be discredited or not an expert (e.g., Robert Kennedy), and your understanding of the subjects seems to be woefully inadequate to even properly form an opinion.

Oh, almost forgot the biggest one of all
-the venus project/zeitgeist

You couldn't even work out that you were an atheist and call yourself 'agnostic', and created yet another of your meaningless threads on that very topic.[/quote]

It is called the burden of proof. I provide a specific claim; those that are skeptics ask for proof, and I have provided proof. Also I never stated that Vaccines cause Autism; I said that the mercury level's within the mercury preservative has been known to cause an area of autism and this eventually got into the whole of the media which eventually turned it into a scare bullshit tactic to sell their programs.

As far as 9/11 being an inside job; I stated the reason why and so far no one has countered.

Now the cloned eye; I do know someone that had a cloned eye and Iasked for the name of the hospital and she said she would get a copy of the files and see about sending me a pdf form if she can get permission to do so. It may have been a misscommunication on her part and might have been really stem cell research.

The Molecule teleportation is a missqoute where I thought he meant molecule when in fact he meant a single photon.

http://forums.leagueofreason.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=742

I am also just a skeptic of climate change because it has been turned into a political compaign; that is all.

And what does the Zeitgeist Movement have to do with anything? I have explained it numerous times before here that it is not a cult, it is not a socialistic community, communism, nor is it a Utopia...

http://forums.leagueofreason.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=702

So now then; some of which were misconceptions, missinterpretations, and some have been taken out of context or missunderstood. And why should me qouting myself as an agnostic have anything to do with this? I don't understand the logic behind it.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

And that is what I guess pisses me off the most. Sure, it is an insult to those of us who actually educate ourselves on issues... IamtheVOICE123 admitted earlier that while he completely rejects Anthropomorphic Global Warming, he has not actually bothered to investigate it. :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

WTF are you talking about? I only reject the political aspect of it all. I think i made that very clear. And wtf are you talking about "investigating it bothers me? I made no such statement.

 

[Finger]

As far as 9/11 being an inside job; I stated the reason why and so far no one has countered.

Oh Bull Shit! In this thread all you did was say that some people supposedly got sick and died at a "camp." I asked you for more information and you changed the subject.

In another thread, you claimed that the "official story" never mentioned Tower 7. When I told you it did, you started listing off several myths that I quickly refuted. Only after this, did you admit that your own understanding of the NIST investigation was outdated. I gave you a link and that was the end of it.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Oh Bull Shit! In this thread all you did was say that some people supposedly got sick and died at a "camp." I asked you for more information and you changed the subject.

In another thread, you claimed that the "official story" never mentioned Tower 7. When I told you it did, you started listing off several myths that I quickly refuted. Only after this, did you admit that your own understanding of the NIST investigation was outdated. I gave you a link and that was the end of it.

It is part of a larger pattern of lies and ignoring contrary evidence from that poster, that stretches across his entire history on this site. He ignores evidence that refutes his claims, pretends that no one posted that evidence, and then acts offended when you call him out on all the unfounded and refuted claims he makes.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

Oh Bull Shit! In this thread all you did was say that some people supposedly got sick and died at a "camp." I asked you for more information and you changed the subject.

In another thread, you claimed that the "official story" never mentioned Tower 7. When I told you it did, you started listing off several myths that I quickly refuted. Only after this, did you admit that your own understanding of the NIST investigation was outdated. I gave you a link and that was the end of it.

I was merely talking about the WTC1 and 2 and how the 747 had only carosine based jet fuel. I knew I had forgotten one more piece of evidence for me to put forth though but here...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7763

http://www.oilempire.us/redalert.html

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm

There you go. Sorry I had forgotten about that.

I will read the report on Saturday.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

It is part of a larger pattern of lies and ignoring contrary evidence from that poster, that stretches across his entire history on this site. He ignores evidence that refutes his claims, pretends that no one posted that evidence, and then acts offended when you call him out on all the unfounded and refuted claims he makes.

I would appreciate it if you would at least wait a few moments till I have a chance to post up relevant information I have been asked to do.

 

[Finger]

I was merely talking about the WTC1 and 2 and how the 747 had only carosine based jet fuel.

What does that have to do with anything?

Also, I remember saying something about non-conspiracy theorist news articles.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

What does that have to do with anything?

Also, I remember saying something about non-conspiracy theorist news articles.

Well tell me what you mean by non-conspiracy theorists news articles? Cause their should be a specific meaning in that?

 

[Th1sWasATriumph]

However for the collapse of the towers, I think the whole argument falls apart when you realize that the fuel used in the 757 among others are carosine based jet fuel (which will hardly ever reach 500c.)

That is why I am skeptic that the fires weakened the steel when the weakening point without fire protection is 1200c I believe. So the thought of me believing that 500c was supposed to weaken industrial structured steel that takes 1200c to weaken is kind of a weak argument. Not to mention the fact that WTC 7 had a multicore column holding the inside as it was supported inside and out by structural steel, so the idea of a fire taking out a critical core collumn does not make sense. I have talked to several demolition and pyrotechnics about this and they agree that the scenario given seems very unlikely without the possibility of planted explosives.

I strongly recommend that you go and read the 9/11 topic. Joe, myself and others went through all the nonsense in some detail. You have your facts wrong.

You've talked to several demolition and pyrotechnics . . . do you mean experts? I think you forgot a word. Well, where's their peer-reviewed research? That argument is no better than "A bloke in the pub told me". I've forgotten the exact temperatures, but basically jet fuel burns at a heat sufficient to weaken steel.

Seriously. Check out the topic before continuing.

 

[IamtheVOICE123]

I strongly recommend that you go and read the 9/11 topic. Joe, myself and others went through all the nonsense in some detail. You have your facts wrong.

You've talked to several demolition and pyrotechnics . . . do you mean experts? I think you forgot a word. Well, where's their peer-reviewed research? That argument is no better than "A bloke in the pub told me". I've forgotten the exact temperatures, but basically jet fuel burns at a heat sufficient to weaken steel.

Seriously. Check out the topic before continuing.

I would like to hear you're reviews on it.

Also peer reviewed literature on topics like these take years to come out, I mean just because their isn't doesn't mean their won't be\. Their is a specific peer reviewed literature out right now about it called Red Chip published by The Open Chemical Physics Journal.

This is the first one really, pretty sure some more may come out soon this year or next year.