Sequels as good as the original

[PatrickTheScienceGuy]

back to the future part 3 > part 2 < part 1 > part 3

 

[Laurens]

Empire Strikes Back is definately better than A New Hope

In the original trilogy, the first movie was really good, the second was even better.... Compared the new ones where the first one was utterly awful and the second one was even more diabolical.

I think the difference is with the original trilogy people weren't afraid to tell George Lucas to shove his shit ideas, whereas with the prequels he was aloud to spout out shit from every angle, fake cartoony CGI shit, without anyone stopping him.

 

[DeistPaladin]

I think the difference is with the original trilogy people weren't afraid to tell George Lucas to shove his shit ideas, whereas with the prequels he was aloud to spout out shit from every angle, fake cartoony CGI shit, without anyone stopping him.

My understanding is exactly that. In the original three, Lucas had some ideas for the story and others filled in the details of the script to make the characters believable.

This is why you have such a dramatic contrast between the Han/Laia romance, how dramatic and believable it is, compared to the nauseating "romance" between Anakin and Padme. Lucas has good ideas (largely lifted from classic mythmaking) but seemingly no idea how people actually talk to one another.

The beginning of the end was where Wookies were replaced with "cute" and marketable Ewoks on Endor.

 

[Finger]

Yeah, the original Star Wars was written and directed by George Lucas because it was a low-budget movie. But when he had a bigger budget for Empire and Jedi, he brought in other writers and other directors to handle the details while he focused on his real passion, the visual effects. But in the prequels, for whatever reason, Lucas decided to micro-manage everything and ended up spreading himself too thin.

Growing up, I had always imagined Anakin's story to be more similar to Luke's story. The farmer's son who wanted to get away and see the universe, Anakin eventually joins military while his brother Owen stays behind. As a pilot, Anakin meets Jedi Knight, Obi Wan Kenobi who recognizes his connection to the force and takes it upon himself to train him. This is the back story that's implied in the original trilogy, but Lucas changed it all because he apparently wanted to turn Anakin into Jesus, and also wanted him to be an angsty teenage heartthrob during the love story.

But honestly, I think the whole thing would have been better left unsaid. Origin stories don't always work as stand-alone narratives. The way they revealed Darth Vader's history in Episodes V and VI was epic. Trying to fill in the gaps just removes the mystique. Case and point, Wolverine.

 

[Laurens]

I think the Star Wars prequel trilogy can adequetly be discribed as; a three part super long toy advert.

 

[Doc.]

what I hated most about the new star wars episodes was Anakin, I could not stand him,not only the character, but actor too, that pretty and cocky boy and his stupid romance with Padme.

Episode I was not that bad though, II and III were a complete disaster, completely tasteless.

oh and I've heard they are making remake for old episodes.

 

[Laurens]

oh and I've heard their making remake for old episodes.

How many times does he want to trample and piss all over my childhood?

If this is true I will vomit all over myself and cry for weeks.

 

[Jotto999]

Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls > Pet Detective. I haven't seen either of these for years, but I remember the second one being far funnier. Though props to the first for having Cannibal Corpse in it.

Last Crusade > Temple of Doom > Raiders of the Lost Ark, IMO.

what I hated most about the new star wars episodes was Anakin, I could not stand him,not only the character, but actor too, that pretty and cocky boy and his stupid romance with Padme.

Episode I was not that bad though, II and III were a complete disaster, completely tasteless.

I feel the same way.

 

[acheron]

If you think that episode 1 was even forgivable, nevermind decent, you need to watch the full review here:



Ignore the silly voice he does. The review is brilliant.

That is part 1, I recommend the entire 9-part series.

 

[Doc.]

no need, saw it yesterday and changed my mind, it was rubbish. I hadn't seen it for a long time you see.

the lightsaber fight with Maul was pretty cool though, except for couple of moments.

 

[tangoen]

oh crap here i am to defend. Terminator was so different from T2 it's hard to compare. terminator was more of a horror movie and t2 was clearly an action movie i honestly think it just depend on which type of story you like more. As for the fool who thinks aliens was a better movie you are just plain wrong. yes the same arguement i made for terminator applies here. The first was more of a horror movie than the second but it's just silly in comparison, the acid blood only applies when convenient and for the aliens in it it might as well been the spiders from starship troopers the way they are killing them so easly in the second movie took all the fright away and replaced it with crappy Bill Paxton humor. sigh i forgot good is all perspective just depends who you are
sequels i think pass the test
Hellboy 2, Waynes World 2 , Die hard 2 and the second batman movie both batman returns and dark knight

 

[Gnug215]

oh crap here i am to defend. Terminator was so different from T2 it's hard to compare. terminator was more of a horror movie and t2 was clearly an action movie i honestly think it just depend on which type of story you like more. As for the fool who thinks aliens was a better movie you are just plain wrong. yes the same arguement i made for terminator applies here. The first was more of a horror movie than the second but it's just silly in comparison, the acid blood only applies when convenient and for the aliens in it it might as well been the spiders from starship troopers the way they are killing them so easly in the second movie took all the fright away and replaced it with crappy Bill Paxton humor. sigh i forgot good is all perspective just depends who you are
sequels i think pass the test
Hellboy 2, Waynes World 2 , Die hard 2 and the second batman movie both batman returns and dark knight

The Terminator argument very much applies to Aliens. As someone who really, really, really doesn't like horror movies, Aliens was a much better movie than Alien.
The alien in Alien is more scary, sure, but scaring people is in my mind a pretty simple art. Incidentally, while the single alien was scary and powerful in Alien, and while they were less scary and easier to kill in Aliens, the idea you got in Aliens was that they were this really big force that would just keep coming, which to me is a more frightening concept than just one alien that's hard to kill.

So to me, it didn't take the fright away, but expanded it beyond small-confined-space-around-the-corner-paranoia.

I also thought Paxton's humor to be fitting, as a representative for the cocky marines that were taken down a peg or five, which again showed the power of the aliens.

But yes, it is about perspective. I really detest horror movies, because all they really do is dim the lights, put on scary music, and then drag out the inevitable scare that we all know is coming, but can't help but react to anyway because of physical reflexes. That doesn't speak to my intellect at all, but my lower instincts.
That said, T2 and Aliens aren't 'intellectual' movies as such for that reason... but they appeal to something else.

 

[DeistPaladin]

I didn't notice that the Xenomorphs were easier to kill in Aliens than they were in the first movie. I thought it was because the marines were using much greater firepower. Maybe it's because it was too long between seeing the first and the second. In any event, I agree that both movies (terminator and alien) were horror in the original and the sequels were action, so it's hard to compare them.

 

[tangoen]

But yes, it is about perspective. I really detest horror movies, because all they really do is dim the lights, put on scary music, and then drag out the inevitable scare that we all know is coming, but can't help but react to anyway because of physical reflexes. That doesn't speak to my intellect at all, but my lower instincts.
That said, T2 and Aliens aren't 'intellectual' movies as such for that reason... but they appeal to something else.

Everyone is entilted to their opinion but detest horror movies really? i completely understand not enjoying the crappy shocker movie that just throw single frame images with a loud noise at you. they are just hoaky to me too. but i really think that horror movies always got a bad rap being thrown in with the cheap slasher movies. good horror movies still have interesting story plots and are not always unintellegent. good examples are nosferatu, night of the living dead, frankenstein, god told me to, the shining, the thing, Invasion of the body snatchers, Dagon , the last man on earth, nightmare on elm st. There has to be at least one thats alright

 

[Gnug215]

But yes, it is about perspective. I really detest horror movies, because all they really do is dim the lights, put on scary music, and then drag out the inevitable scare that we all know is coming, but can't help but react to anyway because of physical reflexes. That doesn't speak to my intellect at all, but my lower instincts.
That said, T2 and Aliens aren't 'intellectual' movies as such for that reason... but they appeal to something else.

Everyone is entilted to their opinion but detest horror movies really? i completely understand not enjoying the crappy shocker movie that just throw single frame images with a loud noise at you. they are just hoaky to me too. but i really think that horror movies always got a bad rap being thrown in with the cheap slasher movies. good horror movies still have interesting story plots and are not always unintellegent. good examples are nosferatu, night of the living dead, frankenstein, god told me to, the shining, the thing, Invasion of the body snatchers, Dagon, the last man on earth, nightmare on elm st. There has to be at least one thats alright

Ok, so "detest" is a really strong word, but... some of them genuinely annoy me. And yes, there is a big difference between some of them. Some of them would basically be slashers, others would be over in the genre of thrillers.

Some of them are certainly better and more intersting than others, but the point of all of them (all the ones that I have seen) seem to be just to be frightening, scary. There doesn't seem to be any other point to them.
Take The Shining... scary, sure. Good atmosphere. Good cinematography. Good acting (from Jack, at least). But what was the point of it? To me, many movies don't have points other than to be entertaining, and being frightened isn't really entertaining. It's not that I mind so much, but once I started to see the tricks and mechanisms used to scare me, it occurred to be simplistic, really.

I haven't seen all of the abovementioned movies, but the ones I have seen don't really mean anything to me at all.

 

[tangoen]

Take The Shining... scary, sure. Good atmosphere. Good cinematography. Good acting (from Jack, at least). But what was the point of it? To me, many movies don't have points other than to be entertaining, and being frightened isn't really entertaining. It's not that I mind so much, but once I started to see the tricks and mechanisms used to scare me, it occurred to be simplistic, really.

I haven't seen all of the above mentioned movies, but the ones I have seen don't really mean anything to me at all.

I will concede that the tricks do not really scare anyone as long as your aware it's fiction and your not confused about whats real. In fact the only movies that actually should scare anyone are documentaries.

but your comment about the acting in the shining i would just like to say that Shelly Duvall who played the mother in the movie was absolutely amazing and she always got shafted when it came time to give the compliments. Jack was great but i think she deserves just as much credit if not more for all the crap stanley kuberick put her through to get a great performance out of her

not sure if it counts as a sequel but i liked Dawn of the Dead better than Night of the Living Dead.

 

[5810Singer]

Funny how tastes are different.

One of my favourite movies is "The Keep", it's gothic horror all the way through, and really quite scary in places,....but the thing I love about it is that it doesn't explain itself at all.
In the most fantastical scenes the camera just becomes an eye, and you witness what occurs with no frame of reference other than your own imagination.
"The Keep" doesn't answer any of the audiences questions, in fact the feeling you get at the end of the movie is more like "I am a very small being who understands very little, and the universe is much stranger than I know.".........and I've always liked that feeling, I find it comforting.

 

[Ozymandyus]

Army of Darkness
Last Crusade
Return of the King
Empire Strikes Back
The Dark Knight
Terminator 2
Aliens
Gremlins 2

Hmm there are quite a few more but those are the first that came to mind.

 

[borrofburi]

Origin stories don't always work as stand-alone narratives.

Hmm. The only not-bad origin story I can think of is "The Hobbit", and even then he was wise enough to keep origins of gandalf, sauron, etc. as not stand-alone novels.

Can anyone think of good origin stories?

 

[tangoen]

Army of Darkness
Last Crusade
Return of the King
Empire Strikes Back
The Dark Knight
Terminator 2
Aliens
Gremlins 2

Hmm there are quite a few more but those are the first that came to mind.

hope you dont think i'm nitpicking but army of darkness and last crusade was the third movie. maybe we should have a discussion for movies where the third in the series is better than the first lots of triologies nowadays. Army of darkness was awesome though sooo quotable. Now that i think about it Evil Dead 2 was better than the first and i did like amry of darkness better than the 2nd movie. awww whatever good choice