Park51 or the "Ground Zero Mosque"

[Dogma's Demise]

Here's a Muslim opinion:



Notice that although he strongly defends this project from a legal point of view, he wouldn't personally build it. Hmm, I wonder why? Maybe it's because he recognizes it's not exactly a good way to build bridges. Something that the PC fanatics are unwilling to do.

 

[televator]

Something that the PC fanatics are unwilling to do.

The more people keep bringing up that stupid term, the more time I find myself contemplating just how much a shitty misapplied term it is.

Here's one reason why: If it truly is a political game that works in the way that so many social conservatives think it does, one could easily turn it around and say that the "PC" thing to do is not build the mosque in order to respect the sensibilities of the reactive mass of idiots who oppose the mosque.

 

[australopithecus]

Oh, well if a MUSLIM disagrees it must be a bad thing.

For Christ's sake DD, grow up.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Really, still this?

 

[Dustnite]

 

[Laurens]

Oh, well if a MUSLIM disagrees it must be a bad thing.

For Christ's sake DD, grow up.

My sentiments exactly... I'm not sure of the precise fallacy maybe DD has invented a new one?

 

[Prolescum]

Oh, well if a MUSLIM disagrees it must be a bad thing.

For Christ's sake DD, grow up.

My sentiments exactly... I'm not sure of the precise fallacy maybe DD has invented a new one?

It's an appeal to an innapropriate authority.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

What I'm saying is, there are other reasons why someone would think this project is not a good idea (apart from "Islamophobia"). I'm not saying that because Sami Zaatari said it it must be true.

But like I said, from a legal point of view, it shouldn't be an issue.

Some people have tried to make the zone a "landmark" (the only legal loophole I can possibly think of) but even that's a bit of a stretch and that proposal wasn't accepted anyway.


I will say however that IF is it ever proven that within this cultural center there is preaching / instigating sedition, or warfare/subjugation against unbelievers then I would say that goes way beyond acceptable free speech and should be shut down. (And that would include support for Hamas, sorry, Hamas = terrorists not "freedom fighters")

 

[australopithecus]

If.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

What I'm saying is, there are other reasons why someone would think this project is not a good idea (apart from "Islamophobia"). I'm not saying that because Sami Zaatari said it it must be true.

But like I said, from a legal point of view, it shouldn't be an issue.

Some people have tried to make the zone a "landmark" (the only legal loophole I can possibly think of) but even that's a bit of a stretch and that proposal wasn't accepted anyway.


I will say however that IF is it ever proven that within this cultural center there is preaching / instigating sedition, or warfare/subjugation against unbelievers then I would say that goes way beyond acceptable free speech and should be shut down. (And that would include support for Hamas, sorry, Hamas = terrorists not "freedom fighters")

Someone should draw the line of "Sedition" before this discussion goes any further. Sedition is a wavering line and it only matters if you're not a white Moderate Christian. If you fulfill those requirements, then you can preach about Armageddon and overthrowing the government all you'd please and how it's on the horizon.
If you're a Muslim, that would instantly be "sedition."

Seriously. You should visit the Bible Belt before you die and go to a Southern Baptist Church. It's a fucking hoot.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Preaching about the end of the world is not sedition since it refers to something set in motion by God, not humans. Same with preaching Hell (Christian or Muslim).

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

Preaching about the end of the world is not sedition since it refers to something set in motion by God, not humans. Same with preaching Hell (Christian or Muslim).

What about people undertaking actions which could help "the end of the world" by doing things like launching nuclear bombs? This is a real threat (yet still quite small) with Iran.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Preaching about the end of the world is not sedition since it refers to something set in motion by God, not humans. Same with preaching Hell (Christian or Muslim).

The only difference between a Christian talking about arming themselves to be soldiers of God in the times to come so that they are ready to fight and an Muslim talking about arming themselves in the times to come to be soldiers of Allah so they are ready to fight is DD's blatant bias and failure to define "sedition."

 

[Dogma's Demise]

Sedition is any action aimed at abolishing, by force or deception, the rightful rule of a country (for example overthrowing the government or abolishing the constitution to replace it with a totalitarian rule).

Now obviously in the context of an oppressive dictatorship, I have no objection to it. (well assuming of course the new rule isn't gonna be just as bad)

In a western context where you have democracy and a constitution that guarantees basic rights and equal status for all citizens, it's not okay.

Preaching about the end of the world is not sedition since it refers to something set in motion by God, not humans. Same with preaching Hell (Christian or Muslim).

What about people undertaking actions which could help "the end of the world" by doing things like launching nuclear bombs? This is a real threat (yet still quite small) with Iran.

That is a specific case and no it's not okay to even PLAN nuclear attacks. That goes way beyond sedition and into conspiracy to commit genocide and other war crimes.

Neither is it okay for Palestinian fundies and their allies to incite genocide of Jews. (typically using a hadith about the Hour not coming until the Muslims fight the Jews who hide behind talking rocks that betray them :lol: )

Generally speaking when theists talk about end times it's usually some rambling about what God will do to a "wicked" world. They don't all necessarily believe that they themselves must DO something to advance it, so if it's just that kind of delusional (yet relatively harmless) nonsense, they can knock themselves out and preach end times all they want.