Jesus's Crucifixtion - What did it mean?

[BlackLight]

If there are any Christians who'd care to offer their insight, or non-believers willing to offer their opinion, please chime in.

Basically, I'd like to know what Jesus's sacrifice meant to humanity, vis-a-vis our sins and redemption. What you hear is that "Jesus died for our sins," or however Christians typically phrase it. To put it another way, what would have happened if Jesus had NOT "died for our sins." Was God planning to smite the whole world again, like he did originally with the Noah and the flood?

Just trying to get a theological perspective here. Thanks.

 

[scorpion9]

If there are any Christians who'd care to offer their insight, or non-believers willing to offer their opinion, please chime in.

Basically, I'd like to know what Jesus's sacrifice meant to humanity, vis-a-vis our sins and redemption. What you hear is that "Jesus died for our sins," or however Christians typically phrase it. To put it another way, what would have happened if Jesus had NOT "died for our sins." Was God planning to smite the whole world again, like he did originally with the Noah and the flood?

Just trying to get a theological perspective here. Thanks.

Well, both in reality and theologically it was completely absurd and useless...however cultists usually claim that it was necessary for removing the original sin, and mankind,´s sins.

God can do anything and forgive mankind,´s "sins" without murdering an innocent man.


If jesus hadnt died, according to cultists, everyone would go to hell, since no-one is free of sin, and the wages of sin is death and hell.
But now....thanks to a 2000 year old corpse, you have a choice of going insane and being freed from your responsibilities.


so ...in conclusion, it was completely useless.

 

[MorituriMax]

"Basically, I'd like to know what Jesus's sacrifice meant to humanity,"

I always laugh at the sheer lack of any kind of logical reasoning here.

1) God can do anything.
2) Specifically, according to all the literature, God can raise people from the dead with no side effects (i.e., the raised individual walking with skin falling off the bone after having rotted for several hours or days).

So God "sacrifices" his son by letting him be crucified.

A sacrifice as defined in the dictionary can mean,

. . . the surrender or destruction of something prized or desirable for the sake of something considered as having a higher or more pressing claim.

I think that is a pretty accurate summary based on the context of God sacrificing his Son to show how much he loves us and what he is willing to do to forgive us.

But we're talking God here, see 1. and 2. All he has to do is wiggle his nose, wave his hands, make a pronouncement, etc, and Jesus is back up and around, good as new... which did happen in the Bible.

So..... where exactly does an all-powerful God who can raise people from the dead good as new make any kind of sacrifice by letting his Son get killed when he can just raise him back up anytime he feels like it?

To truly have sacrificed his Son, God would have had to let everyone know that he was going to NOT raise his Son from the dead after he died.

This is a prime example to me of fallible mortal humans with limited intelligence and abilities trying to create a God with ultimate intelligence and abilities.

And it also underscores how the greatest "sacrifice" in human history was the least significant "sacrifice" of all time.

 

[Demojen]

This is the same logic that claims God is perfect and on the same token, needs our praise and worship. Worse that by God needing anything makes it a concept that by the definition of perfection is itself not.

 

[Aught3]

So I think if Jesus hadn't died for our sins the only way to please Yahweh was to follow the old Jewish laws. Jesus provided a loop-hole that takes away your responsibility for the bad things you did to others and lets you in to heaven regardless.

From my perspective the whole thing was made up. Either Jesus was made up out of whole-cloth or, if there really was a Jesus, the resurrection was just concocted to get around the embarrassing fact that the Romans crucified their Messiah.

 

[Demojen]

More likely than not, the crucifixion didn't happen.

 

[IBSpify]

Basically it's the Christian get out of metaphysical jail free card, they can do whatever they want and sin to their hearts contents and it doesn't mater because Jesus died for their sins, thus they can kill an abortion doctor and still go to heaven despite the "thou shall not kill commandment".

As for the without Christ nobody could go to heaven stance on the crucifixion, I'm always confused as to what that means to the countless people that died before Christ. By that stance almost all the hero's of the Bible would be in Hell, after all how could Noah accept Christ if Christ wont exists for over 1000 more years.

 

[Squawk]

Let me knock out a few issues that, for the sake of this thread, I'll ignore

1. God doesn't exist
2. Jesus, as described in the bible, never existed
3. Biblical stories are pretty much fairy tails

Ok, with those exempted, what do we glean
Well, we note that this particular brand of deity is a complete git. Why anyone would choose to worship him I have no idea. First up he elects for, as Hitch puts it, vicarious atonement, a concept I find repulsive. But we note that the supposed crime is one that could not be avoided due to the rules set in place by the being demanding atonement.

Ok, lets accept that for now, and consider the rest. 4.5 billion years of earth. 14 billion years of universe. Omnipotence. Which period of time do you choose for this atonment to take place? Less than 2k years before such a time as it would be possible to show the events to a global audience.

Test of faith my arse, if it was good enough to be witnessed back then, why not now?

All we see is an idiotic, spiteful and vengeful god flaunting its power. So yeah, thats pretty much what it means. But then I prefer my fiction from the likes of Michael Crichton, so I don't much care.

 

[)O( Hytegia )O(]

Imagine for a moment that I, myself, am Yahweh.

Now, I have this whole "sin" mess that, for some reason, I didn't see coming - and didn't really think through the whole "Satan" thing too much.

I could just snap my fingers, and sin would disappear ... But that's too fucking easy. Really.
Instead, I will make an avatar OF myself (by proxy) as a sacrifice TO myself FROM myself, chill and be dead for 3 days, walk around for 2 months, and then just come back to heaven.

...
What's that?
What do you mean 'what about the Native Americans, the Asians, the Africans, the Northern-Europians, etc' ? They should know I exist simply because I made them - duh.

 

[Welshidiot]

To me the god of the Old Testament comes over like this: "All sodomites, fornicators, faithless-men, and people who don't keep good hygiene in their food preparation areas, are the scum of the Earth and shall be destroyed!"

Whereas the god of the New Testament comes over more like this: "Even though all sodomites, fornicators, faithless-men, and people who don't keep good hygiene in their food preparation areas, are the scum of the Earth, we forgive them for it...as long as they stop doing it.....if they carry on doing it we'll persecute them in a variety of ways, but only for their own good, and we won't enjoy it........honest."

This video isn't entirely apt to the topic, but it sums up the New Testament's faux morality IMO:

​

I think the Crucifixion is like the rest of the Bible....meaningless.

 

[Pulsar]

It's not supposed to make sense. That's the trick christianity, and religion in general, uses: god's intentions are impossible to comprehend by us mere mortals. The more illogical it is, the more proof it is of god's divine character. Don't question it!

 

[RedYellow]

Whenever this comes up in conversation with a Christian, I usually use a story as an analogy:

A King charges his peasants with the crime of not living up to his Kingly standard, while not providing them nearly sufficient resources to do so. He is appalled by behaviors like theft, though unaware that perhaps the people wouldnt steal if they had enough food.

So one day he gets tired of executing people left and right for being dirty and hungry, and decides to be generous, and lift the charges against his people. (conditionally)

He decides to become a peasant for a day, and goes around showing off to people how humble he is, by performing miracles like summoning food from his court to feed them(just for today) and giving sick people medicine that usually only he has access to. "See? I'm just like you, just, with privileges."

The next day he goes right back to being King, then proclaims that anybody will be cleared of charges IF every single individual writes letters to his court every day, telling him how sorry they feel for him having to be a dirty peasant for a day. Of course, he forgot to teach them how to read and write.........

--------
Now usually a Christian would say that a king becoming a peasant isn't equal to being tortured and crucified, but for God I think it would be. I mean for all we know God didn't even feel the pain, he certainly wouldnt have to, and that is the point. There was no real transaction here. No sacrifice made. God loses nothing, and even when he was a man on earth he still had access to powers that mortals did not, and those mortals still get to go to hell if they screw up.

 

[Laurens]

Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, or the Son of Man - terms which in the Jewish culture at the time did not literally mean God's son, merely someone held in high regard by God. The belief that Jesus was the literal son of God only came later in Christian theology.

Anyways the followers of Jesus, for one reason or another came to believe that he was the messiah of Jewish prophecy. However this became a problem when Jesus was killed, because the Jewish messiah wasn't supposed to die, he was supposed to be a great leader, like King David, who would unite the Jews and drive their oppressors from the land. Well Jesus wasn't any of those things, he was humiliatingly killed by their oppressors (and it's for this reason that Jews quite rightly didn't accept him to be the messiah, how could he be?)

Jesus' death meant that his followers had to come up with something to cling onto (or Christianity would have faded out pretty fast), and that's probably why his death was transformed from something rather embarrassing for his followers to something central to their beliefs. In other words, they turned his death from a big problem; how can the messiah have been so brutally crushed by the enemy? into something triumphant; Jesus died for all of our sins...

I don't know how much sense I'm making, that's just a few thoughts.

 

[TheFlyingBastard]

Allow me to give you the Jehovah's Witness version:

The original plan was to make mankind live in perfection forever on a paradise earth.
Original sin happened, screwing all that up.
Adam had thrown away his perfect life, so there had to be a "second Adam", Jesus, who would have to give his life to balance the scales.
Soon God will wipe the planet of all evil, and those that have obeyed God will live forever in a paradise earth.

If Jesus would not have given his life, we would not have a chance of living eternally, and dead would be dead, no backsies.

That's the JW version.

 

[Nemesiah]

If there are any Christians who'd care to offer their insight, or non-believers willing to offer their opinion, please chime in.

Basically, I'd like to know what Jesus's sacrifice meant to humanity, vis-a-vis our sins and redemption. What you hear is that "Jesus died for our sins," or however Christians typically phrase it. To put it another way, what would have happened if Jesus had NOT "died for our sins." Was God planning to smite the whole world again, like he did originally with the Noah and the flood?

Just trying to get a theological perspective here. Thanks.

It is not certain (AFAIK) that jesus existed other than as a raving mad doomsday prophet (if he axisted at all). If he existed jesus did not DIE, he had a 48 hour nap after which he became king of heaven. He died so he could cleanse us of a sin he invented and placed upon us for the transgressions of one couple decieved by a talking snake.

As I see it if we are to believe that jesus "died" for our sins; it was the original sin which he clensed, this sin is bestowed on the garden of eden, the whole "earth in 6 days" fiasco, so jesus diying for our sins gets us to creationism, if we shy away from creationism, then there was no need for jesus to die for our sins since eve did not goad adam into eating "the forbiden fruit" and was thus not cursed, and he just died for "teh lulz" and to watch judas hang himself just for giggles.

If this is not how this events transcurred please correct me, thankfully religion is starting to slip from my brain.

 

[havanacat]

If there are any Christians who'd care to offer their insight, or non-believers willing to offer their opinion, please chime in.

Basically, I'd like to know what Jesus's sacrifice meant to humanity, vis-a-vis our sins and redemption. What you hear is that "Jesus died for our sins," or however Christians typically phrase it. To put it another way, what would have happened if Jesus had NOT "died for our sins." Was God planning to smite the whole world again, like he did originally with the Noah and the flood?

Just trying to get a theological perspective here. Thanks.

God did not want to destroy creation again. However, free will was given to man. At this time man was born in sin and God knew free will would be an impediment to having a pure relationship with Man again. He sent His Son as the final sacrifice...the new covenant no longer recognized Hebrew animal and grain sacrifices. God's Son spent 3 days experiencing the degradation of every sin committed and that would be committed. The crucifiction was the final atoning sacrifice, not just for Jews, but for all.

 

[CommonEnlightenment]

If there are any Christians who'd care to offer their insight, or non-believers willing to offer their opinion, please chime in.

Basically, I'd like to know what Jesus's sacrifice meant to humanity, vis-a-vis our sins and redemption. What you hear is that "Jesus died for our sins," or however Christians typically phrase it. To put it another way, what would have happened if Jesus had NOT "died for our sins." Was God planning to smite the whole world again, like he did originally with the Noah and the flood?

Just trying to get a theological perspective here. Thanks.

God did not want to destroy creation again. However, free will was given to man. At this time man was born in sin and God knew free will would be an impediment to having a pure relationship with Man again. He sent His Son as the final sacrifice...the new covenant no longer recognized Hebrew animal and grain sacrifices. God's Son spent 3 days experiencing the degradation of every sin committed and that would be committed. The crucifiction was the final atoning sacrifice.

Personally,

I would just call this human society 'growing up'. In the sense of discarding antiquated systems of culture for a more civilized society.

 

[Duvelthehobbit666]

If there are any Christians who'd care to offer their insight, or non-believers willing to offer their opinion, please chime in.

Basically, I'd like to know what Jesus's sacrifice meant to humanity, vis-a-vis our sins and redemption. What you hear is that "Jesus died for our sins," or however Christians typically phrase it. To put it another way, what would have happened if Jesus had NOT "died for our sins." Was God planning to smite the whole world again, like he did originally with the Noah and the flood?

Just trying to get a theological perspective here. Thanks.

God did not want to destroy creation again. However, free will was given to man. At this time man was born in sin and God knew free will would be an impediment to having a pure relationship with Man again. He sent His Son as the final sacrifice...the new covenant no longer recognized Hebrew animal and grain sacrifices. God's Son spent 3 days experiencing the degradation of every sin committed and that would be committed. The crucifiction was the final atoning sacrifice, not just for Jews, but for all.

God could also have forgiven man without this cruel execution. Seeing that he is all powerful, he can do this without sacrificing a person regardless where this person came from. And the crucifixion isn't a sacrifice seeing that in the long run Jesus got to go to heaven.

 

[australopithecus]

Ok, I'm confused. Havanacat, you've stated you're Jewish and here you are bigging up Jebus. So are you ethnically Jewish and a Christian or ethnically Jewish and a follower of Judaism?

 

[Vanlavak]

Why he died

Jesus died for several extremely influential reasons. Jesus died firstly and foremost for our shortcomings. In the old testament of the bible, there is a lot of text about animal sacrifices where a priest would put all the blame of the people on an animal (the term scapegoat came from this). The sacrifice had to be an animal with no blemishes; a highly valued animal, the best of them. The people would then be free of punishment for their sins and evil deeds. Jesus lived of very high moral standards. He taught that one should be of the same high morals. He was kind and talkative to the gentiles, even a slut who was on her fourth or fifth husband in marriages based purely on sex. This was a display of equality that has had influences on humanistic groups to this day in America and around the world. In the sum of all of what Jesus did he was perfect, and he died unfairly and unjustly to forgive all sins of man all thought history as a final and ultimate scapegoat for the good of all. (So if somebody tells you your going to hell, tell them that they're a liar)

Secondly, Jesus died to show that he wasn't afraid to die for the good of all. The death of Jesus was an eight-plus hour fight for life. The cross is not so much a symbol of Christianity as it is a symbol of death. Being nailed to the cross means a sure way to die a slow and antagonizing death. Once hung from a cross by your hands, you fight even to breath until you die. If the soldiers wanted to kill you quicker and end your misery sooner, they would tie a brick to your feet to kill you. If they wanted the misery to go on for a longer time, they would nail your feet, as they did to Jesus. Jesus died a slow and painful death that, as you may remember, caused him to cry "My god, My god, why have you forsake me?" and then died.

I hope this helps you out. If you have any questions, reply or message me.