I want to oppose Islam...

[Laurens]

What about all his rhetoric about 'a house divided against itself' and all that nonsense?

Well, just saying, he's not an absolutist on that.


Personally, I'm a bit undecided, I can't argue for it, but I certainly cannot argue against it, because he has a point. There's gotta be some minimum level of unity, especially if you want to see an end to these ridiculous politics of (depending on your country) funding for religious institutions or abstinence-programs or ban on gay marriage or creationism in schools or Sharia law or whatever.

Then again I've encountered a few atheists (online, don't see much of them IRL) which I really really dislike and don't see much common ground, one was a radical vegetarian/misanthrope douche bag, one wanted to end human rights because there are "too many people on the planet" or some shit and I've met a few genuine communists. And I won't hesitate to come down hard on them.

I think the flaw is in the implication that atheism is a 'house' that is open to being divided in the first place.

I'm an atheist, not because I care particularly about being a part of a movement, but because having analysed the subject matter I find religion to be nonsense. This alone does not obligate me to take part in any movement whatsoever, in fact as a freethinker I am weary of including myself in any group of people who are obligated to think a certain way and to avoid disagreement with others who think similarly. I'd urge others to be sceptical of people who try to encourage you down that route.

 

[australopithecus]

Islam ought to face consequences for actions that serve to directly on indirectly break secular law.

How does one punish Islam exactly?

 

[Asrahn]

Islam ought to face consequences for actions that serve to directly on indirectly break secular law.

How does one punish Islam exactly?

Same way we "punish" Catholics and everyone else. News articles and facepalms.

I seriously don't see it getting further than that, but hey, it's something

 

[australopithecus]

Same way we "punish" Catholics and everyone else. News articles and facepalms.

I seriously don't see it getting further than that, but hey, it's something

There is no secular law to break and even if there were it wouldn't be Islam who broke it, it would be individual Muslims. Punishing the concept is an empty gesture.

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Freedom of Speech covers everyone, even if you disagree with their opinion or goals, as long as it doesn't cause a direct and imminent threat of physicalharm to the person or the public.

Fair enough. There's t3h Internetz and TV for that. I'm not gonna take that away from them.

But as I said, unless they're actually citizens, no country should be obliged to allow them in.

This last suggestion is quite ridiculous.

If no-one was allowed in unless they were citizens, then there'd be no international travel at all.

At present, Customs can deny entry to anyone whom they believe has not been open about their reason for entering a country - for example, indicating that they're on holiday when they actually intend finding work.

Equally, if someone has a record, they can be refused entry. Many years ago, whilst working on a project for the National Youth Federation (a umbrella organization for youth clubs in Ireland), a Irish teenager was refused entry to the US because he'd stolen a bicycle(!) a few years earlier.

And equally, if someone is suspected of being "up-to-no-good", they can be refused entry.

There are protocols already in place to deal with this without penalizing someone because they're not a citizen.

Nowadays, most business people, who do a lot of travel, have dual or multiple citizenship, for ease of travel.

The real problem is those who are up-to-no-good - regardless of their reason being religious, political, etc - entering a country illegally, whether on forged papers or, more likely, through being smuggled in..

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Dragan Glas]

Greetings,

Islam ought to face consequences for actions that serve to directly on indirectly break secular law.

One could punish Muslims who break the law as one can punish anyone.

If they're not actually breaking the law, then one can point out that they're not living up to the spirit of compassion which their faith espouses, just as one would do with a Christian or member of another major faith.

Kindest regards,

James

 

[Asrahn]

Same way we "punish" Catholics and everyone else. News articles and facepalms.

I seriously don't see it getting further than that, but hey, it's something

There is no secular law to break and even if there were it wouldn't be Islam who broke it, it would be individual Muslims. Punishing the concept is an empty gesture.

With secular law I mean law as opposed to religious law. Sharia as an example, is not secular law.

I never spoke of punishment. I spoke of consequences. Having things dug up and exposed to the public is a consequence that should be a result of having bigoted practices or behaviours. It doesn't go further than that, there is nothing to read between the lines.

 

[Sandracottus]

How does one punish Islam exactly?

We may select from three procedures

1. The same condition that Islam gave non muslims ---convert, pay exclusive muslim taxes or die.

2.Or the condition that the Spanish successfully imposed upon muslims ---Convert, emigrate or die

3 Or, since most of us wouldn't descend to to such harsh methods, we could use a movie.......


A MOVIE ON MOMO's LIFE WILL DELIVER A HUGE BLOW TO ISLAM

 

[australopithecus]

Or you realise that's not "punishing Islam" but "punishing Muslims".

Get the difference?

 

[Laurens]

A MOVIE ON MOMO's LIFE WILL DELIVER A HUGE BLOW TO ISLAM

You think?

I think perhaps it would just anger all the extremists and alienate the moderates. Which might not be good when it comes to attempting to combat Islamism.

 

[sturmgewehr]

The best way to do that is to join ex muslims, ex muslims don't have any Nationalistic, Christian Fundamentalist or whatever hidden agenda behind them.

Join this forum u will find plenty of us here:

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?action=forum

 

[Sandracottus]

You think?

I think perhaps it would just anger all the extremists and alienate the moderates. Which might not be good when it comes to attempting to combat Islamism.

Aren't they angry already ?


Once Muslims become a majority, the moderate--extremist distinctions fade away and true colours appear.


Dont think even for a moment that there is an easy way through islam

 

[Laurens]

Dont think even for a moment that there is an easy way through islam

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

 

[Dogma's Demise]

The best way to do that is to join ex muslims, ex muslims don't have any Nationalistic, Christian Fundamentalist or whatever hidden agenda behind them.

Join this forum u will find plenty of us here:

http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?action=forum

I think you don't know the entire picture if you think all ex-Muslims are somehow these meek or gentle critics of Islam. Being ex-Muslims they've probably experienced first hand what the Islamic social order has to offer, so don't be surprised if some aren't gonna be too fond of multiculturalism or mass immigration from Islamic countries.

I can think of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Nonie Darwish here. (No, I'm not criticizing them, I have similar views.)

 

[Sandracottus]

Dont think even for a moment that there is an easy way through islam

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

You see a rabid dog running at you, you dont say " Lord, he knows not what he doth .Forgive him"

Get the point ?

 

[australopithecus]

So basically, just like DD, Islam makes you piss yourself and so you expect everyone to be a scared as you are?

I refuse.

 

[Sandracottus]

So basically, just like DD, Islam makes you piss yourself and so you expect everyone to be a scared as you are?

I refuse.

 

[australopithecus]

So that's a "yes" then?

 

[Sandracottus]

So that's a "yes" then?

" He who renounces fear , anger and desire, verily attains the supreme"

Bhagavad Gita



You know you are making no sense at all.

You talk from an unjustified idea that Islam is like all other religions .

It is not. And my post that clearly explained it has been screwed.


So I wont blow my larynx upon deaf ears

 

[Laurens]

You see a rabid dog running at you, you dont say " Lord, he knows not what he doth .Forgive him"

Get the point ?

Yes, but the issue is; I do not see Islam as being analogous to a rabid dog, nor do I see it as running at me...