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I want to oppose Islam...

arg-fallbackName="Laurens"/>
I wouldn't be so arrogant as to state what atheists should or should not do, however I can say for myself that I oppose irrationality. Religion comes under that category, but there are also an alarming amount of atheists who are just as irrational as any theist, and I almost feel a stronger obligation to oppose them than I do theists. Why might you ask, because religion generally has zero affect on my day to day life, however what atheists say and do affect people's perception of me personally as someone who has chosen to lump myself in with that category, so I feel compelled to point out that I don't just tow the party line of atheism and attempt to encourage self-criticism of it (something which morons like Thunderf00t seem to discourage) in others. Also because pointing out irrationality among those who claim to be champions of rationality is a worthwhile and necessary exercise...
 
arg-fallbackName="Dogma's Demise"/>
Fair enough, but I do not see how it is any more arrogant than telling people to participate in vote. :p

As for Thunderf00t, that's not entirely true. He does seem to criticize other atheists (sometimes).

HowTheWorldWorks as far as I can tell isn't religious (not certain but I suspect it), he mockingly referred to God as a "spaghetti monster in the sky", which I don't see any theist doing, and even though he doesn't really talk about it, but he was still a target.
He's criticized some atheists for coming to the defense of Islam/DawahFilms.
He briefly debated Inmendham on anti-natalism (even though to be honest he was kinda dismissive of Inmendham's argument).
 
arg-fallbackName="australopithecus"/>
Dogma's Demise said:
Fair enough, but I do not see how it is any more arrogant than telling people to participate in vote. :p
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Voting is the way you effect the political and social change you desire by proxy of a candidate. Put simply: you don't vote, you don't get any say in agendas that will effect you life. Pointing out to theists that which of their arguments is not the same thing.

Dogma's Demise said:
As for Thunderf00t, that's not entirely true. He does seem to criticize other atheists (sometimes).
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A lot of the time. Mostly in an unconstructive way. Coughlan, anyone?
 
arg-fallbackName=")O( Hytegia )O("/>
Dogma's Demise said:
Fair enough, but I do not see how it is any more arrogant than telling people to participate in vote. :p
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Well, that's only if they have the same political ideologies as you - otherwise they won't be able to get on the country, let alone vote based upon your established and well-founded standards.
 
arg-fallbackName="Dogma's Demise"/>
)O( Hytegia )O( said:
Dogma's Demise said:
Fair enough, but I do not see how it is any more arrogant than telling people to participate in vote. :p
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Well, that's only if they have the same political ideologies as you - otherwise they won't be able to get on the country, let alone vote based upon your established and well-founded standards.
Click to expand...

:roll:
 
arg-fallbackName=")O( Hytegia )O("/>
Freedom of Speech covers everyone, even if you disagree with their opinion or goals, as long as it doesn't cause a direct and imminent threat of physicalharm to the person or the public.

You see, now I'm mocking you - but that's only because you refuse to actually address any points and call valid arguments "mockeries" with a strong victim complex.
This is irrelevant mockery - my posts were not.
 
arg-fallbackName="Dogma's Demise"/>
)O( Hytegia )O( said:
Freedom of Speech covers everyone, even if you disagree with their opinion or goals, as long as it doesn't cause a direct and imminent threat of physicalharm to the person or the public.
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Fair enough. There's t3h Internetz and TV for that. I'm not gonna take that away from them.

But as I said, unless they're actually citizens, no country should be obliged to allow them in.
)O( Hytegia )O( said:
You see, now I'm mocking you - but that's only because you refuse to actually address any points and call valid arguments "mockeries" with a strong victim complex.
This is irrelevant mockery - my posts were not.
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I already exposed some of your flaws.
 
arg-fallbackName=")O( Hytegia )O("/>
Dogma's Demise said:
I already exposed some of your flaws.
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Jousting from atop a lame horse is possibly the best metaphor I can think for you.
Sure, you glanced me - but your entire argument has shotty footing, no drive, and is about to drop dead beneath your feet without anyone else having to do anything.
 
arg-fallbackName="Laurens"/>
Dogma's Demise said:
Fair enough, but I do not see how it is any more arrogant than telling people to participate in vote. :p

As for Thunderf00t, that's not entirely true. He does seem to criticize other atheists (sometimes).

HowTheWorldWorks as far as I can tell isn't religious (not certain but I suspect it), he mockingly referred to God as a "spaghetti monster in the sky", which I don't see any theist doing, and even though he doesn't really talk about it, but he was still a target.
He's criticized some atheists for coming to the defense of Islam/DawahFilms.
He briefly debated Inmendham on anti-natalism (even though to be honest he was kinda dismissive of Inmendham's argument).
Click to expand...

What about all his rhetoric about 'a house divided against itself' and all that nonsense?
 
arg-fallbackName="Dogma's Demise"/>
Laurens said:
What about all his rhetoric about 'a house divided against itself' and all that nonsense?
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Well, just saying, he's not an absolutist on that.


Personally, I'm a bit undecided, I can't argue for it, but I certainly cannot argue against it, because he has a point. There's gotta be some minimum level of unity, especially if you want to see an end to these ridiculous politics of (depending on your country) funding for religious institutions or abstinence-programs or ban on gay marriage or creationism in schools or Sharia law or whatever.

Then again I've encountered a few atheists (online, don't see much of them IRL) which I really really dislike and don't see much common ground, one was a radical vegetarian/misanthrope douche bag, one wanted to end human rights because there are "too many people on the planet" or some shit and I've met a few genuine communists. And I won't hesitate to come down hard on them.
 
arg-fallbackName="australopithecus"/>
There doesn't have to be any level of unity. Atheists don't have to band together any more than people who don't like carrotts have to band together, and defending secularism isn't the preserve only of atheists, it is for anyone who values not living in a theocracy, which also includes a hell of a lot of religious people. Not all theists are insane enough to want religion to dictate legislation.

The atheist 'community on YouTube is a joke. 90% of the time I wouldn't want to be united with most of them.
 
arg-fallbackName="Dogma's Demise"/>
australopithecus said:
The atheist 'community on YouTube is a joke. 90% of the time I wouldn't want to be united with most of them.
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Which people exactly are we talking about?
 
arg-fallbackName="australopithecus"/>
With the exception of AW, Potholer and AronRa it's a clusterfuck of in-fighting and bitching. This is, of coirse, limited to my experiences of YouTube.
 
arg-fallbackName="Asrahn"/>
OP: My personal thought - oppose them as you do with any other religion: Expose their bigotry and bullshit wherever it is possible. Just like stuff like when the Clergy have their way with altar boys, Islam ought to face consequences for actions that serve to directly on indirectly break secular law.

Don't single any religion out, treat their delusions equally. Claiming that Islam is "special" in any way will only serve them in the end as it will become virtually impossible to criticize them if it becomes too prominent to go "Islamobashing".
 
arg-fallbackName="Frenger"/>
australopithecus said:
With the exception of AW, Potholer and AronRa it's a clusterfuck of in-fighting and bitching. This is, of coirse, limited to my experiences of YouTube.
Click to expand...

I'd like to add qualiasoup and Therimin trees to that list.

Other than that, yep, I'd agree.
 
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