How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scripture

[No1Mensan]

A lot is said about how questionably translated the various versions of the Bible are, but I'm interested to know how many people look at the original word by word translation, before it is even put into sentences. In Isaiah 7:14 The claim that the virgin birth was predicted is made but according to the translation the hebrew word for virgin isn't present and young woman was mistranslated to mean virgin by Matthew 1:22 and by most other translations of it. In proverbs 30:19-20 The same word is used when referring to an adulterous woman. This is just one example anyway.

I'm only mentioning this because after reading this I can appreciate how Hebrew can easily be translated out of context.

 

[Case]

Re: How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scrip

The same word is used when referring to an adulterous woman.

So Jesus was the son of a slut? Now that would make much more sense. "I know we haven't had sex for a year now, Joseph... but I SWEAR I haven't slept with ANYONE else either... must've been..."

 

[Aught3]

Re: How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scrip

Very rarely do I have occasion to go back to the Hebrew. Recently I was arguing with someone whether or not Elohim was plural. He said that Elohim was always translated as singular but I was able to point out several places in the Bible where it was used as a plural and only makes sense in the plural form.

The word virgin is definitely a mistranslation and quite an important one to as it shows the Gospels of Matthew (especially) and Luke are willing to add in extra information in order to make the story fit with their preconceived ideas about the Messiah - it calls the whole thing into question.

I didn't know that it could also mean adulteress though and this is quite interesting because in the Talmud there is a story about a man named Yeshua (=Jesus, but it was a common name) who was the son of a woman named Miriam (Mary?). Miriam was betrothed to a carpenter but was not yet 'living' with him when she had intercourse with a Roman soldier named Pandeira, which resulted in her pregnancy making her an adulteress. Yeshua's life story is broadly similar to that of Jesus; he led Jews astray from their faith, performed magical acts, and was seen as heretical by the Jewish elders. Eventually he was condemned to death, but he was stoned rather than crucified, however, after his death he was hung from a tree (tree/cross?) as was dictated for the crime of heresy.

A second century Greek philosopher called Celsus identified Pandeira as Pantera and it's possible he was an actual Roman archer whose gravestone has been located in Germany. A bit speculative, but more likely than the virgin line

 

[No1Mensan]

Re: How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scrip

I should clarify that I was referring to the context in Proverbs 30, the word e,·olme (alma) which was mistakenly translated to mean virgin, actually means young woman. I was only referring to the proverbs verse because the same word was used when referring to a woman who was clearly not a virgin.

 

[DepricatedZero]

Re: How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scrip

I've read the Torah, which is wildly different from the Old Testament. I've read the Qur'an, which is also wildly different from the Torah. Funny, since both the Bible and Qur'an "accept" the Torah as part of them.

 

[Case]

Re: How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scrip

Celsus identified Pandeira as Pantera

Damn, been listening to the band, but never knew this...

 

[Mapp]

Re: How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scrip

I hadn't heard that the translation could mean adulterous woman. I thought the standard translation in Isaiah just meant young woman, or unmarried woman. By the time of the new testament it had become synonymous with virgin and so it was assumed that, in order for the Messianic prophecy to be fulfilled they had to fabricate an immaculate conception.

 

[Aught3]

Re: How many of you have looked at the original Hebrew Scrip

..they had to fabricate an immaculate conception

POI, immaculate conception refers to Mary the mother of Jesus. According to Catholic dogma every person is born in sin, therefore you are sinful from conception (oh, those evil embryos!). But the mother of Jesus could not have been a sin-filled person since that is where Jesus was for 9 months, so the immaculate conception was invented to make sure Jesus' mother was pure.