Everybody draw Holocaust day (30 June 2010)

[derkvanl]

Islam strikes back :roll:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Everybody-draw-Holocaust-day-30-June-2010/125126400846347

http://loganswarning.com/2010/05/22/muslims-strike-back-everybody-draw-holocaust-day-30-june-2010/

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/21/does-draw-mohammed-day-holocaust-denial/

more on the net.

 

[creamcheese]

Well I drew Mohammed, but he was a fairly normal looking guy in my depiction. Drawing mass starvation and gassing and whatnot might tax my artistic abilities :roll:

 

[Your Funny Uncle]

Hahaha! Do they actually think this is clever? At the end of this they'll have exercised their right to free speech and we'll just laugh at them for being idiots. We won't threaten to kill them and we won't attempt to block Facebook or YouTube.

 

[Baranduin]

I think we could <strike>takeover</strike> <strike>pharyngulate</strike> ehm participate on it. They certainly have the right to express their opinion... as we have the right to express ours. Y'know, <strike>spoil</strike> embiggen their original initiative with a broader point of view.

Holocaust certainly isn't (or shouldn't be) a sacred cow that cannot be mentioned in any way. We can draw holocaust too

I'm sure that they would try to ban any image showing the Holocaust as something real and bad (I'm also sure they're not going to be consistent with Holocaust denial: some of them will praise it). Well, no one dictated any rule about how Mohammed should be depicted; they could have sent their positive images of Mohammed too. Indeed, I think we should invite them to the next Draw Mohammed day :twisted:

If they whine about us depicting Holocaust under a negative light, well, again, not every drawing of Mohammed was negative. Some of them were quite positive, indeed. Most of the ones I saw were quite neutral.


Well, I can see a lot of criticism coming...

Your thoughts?

Edit: widespread typos

 

[australopithecus]

What if we drew Mohammed at Auschwitz, which way would their idiocy fall then?

 

[Baranduin]

What if we drew Mohammed at Auschwitz, which way would their idiocy fall then?

While writing the previous message, one of the images I had in mind was one of the old photographs showing the corpses, with the face of hitler on one side and a Mohammed on the other. But that would be unfair. There's no need to insult non-antisemitic muslims. That would be missing the target by large. The idea this time would be to criticize Holocaust-denial, not stupid religious dogmas (and attract the criticism of other muslims that, in other case, could be collaborating with us).

So I'm trying to think in something more religiously neutral to illustrate the point.

Any idea?

 

[MRaverz]

This just doesn't make sense...

They do raise some good points about Palestine though.

 

[Case]

What a retarded idea. :facepalm:

Also... the same tired arguments resurface in the comments...: "the problem is not drawing Mohammad. The problem is drawing offensive pics. Before 2005 there were no protests from Muslims but when Swedish cartoonist drew 12 very offensive drawings than Muslims started protests." Duh. As if there was any objective quality to 'offensive'.

 

[derkvanl]

Much of the injustice that takes place in our world stems from ignorance. We reject being emotionally blackmailed by Hollywood tales and holocaust museums which legitimize the war crimes and crimes against humanity of the extremist Atheist regime of Tel-Aviv.

<cut>

Now, I have a simple question for you guys. Am I as free as you? May I practice my Freedom of Speech too?
Let's research critically about the Holocaust then.

What if we drew Mohammed at Auschwitz, which way would their idiocy fall then?

While writing the previous message, one of the images I had in mind was one of the old photographs showing the corpses, with the face of hitler on one side and a Mohammed on the other. But that would be unfair. There's no need to insult non-antisemitic muslims. That would be missing the target by large. The idea this time would be to criticize Holocaust-denial, not stupid religious dogmas (and attract the criticism of other muslims that, in other case, could be collaborating with us).

So I'm trying to think in something more religiously neutral to illustrate the point.

Any idea?

As far as I can see / read it, they deny the holocaust.

What about just reading or listing the victim's names for 30 seconds or a minute in a video. It's somewhat respectfull and quite often done in memorials. Have a lot of videomakers join in and post them at the same date on youtube alltogether.

http://www.hmd.org.uk/assets/downloads/yad_vashem_Adults.pdf
http://www.hmd.org.uk/assets/downloads/yad_vashem_Children.pdf
http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome

images and other material can be found here http://www.hmd.org.uk/resources/image-library

You can deny the holocaust, but the victims are real.

 

[nasher168]

I say go along with their draw the holocaust thing, but do it perhaps more respectfully and add something against holocaust-denial to it.

 

[AndromedasWake]

Let them do it. Holocaust denial is no different in its formulation than creationism. In fact, as many have pointed out, a larger percentage of historians deny the holocaust than biologists deny evolution.

What's depressing is that amongst all of the talk about DMD, even from reasonable parties, very few people actually seem to get the point of it. Denying the holocaust is not a proportional response, because those who participated in DMD are not denying the existence of Muhammad per se, but rather denying bullies the right to make violent threats.

This only serves to further the anti-semite and anti-evidence stereotype of the Muslim religion.

 

[Eidolon]

I kind of figured they would totally miss the point and throw a shit fit. I like how they singled out the jews even though DMD was celebrated by all races religions (Im sure there was one or two muslims who don't give a shit about islam) and creeds. As usual another totally disproportionate and incorrect reaction to someone insulting their prophet Muhammad (Piss be upon him)

 

[Aught3]

Drawing Mohamed = Denying the Holocaust. I guess this shows how screwed up some of them are. On the other hand maybe the Muslims who take part in this day will learn about free speech.

 

[butterbattle]

Well, it's "sort of" clever, but there's a lot of problems with it obviously. The main purpose of DMD was the exercise of free speech in defiance of a religion that condemns it, whereas they are allowed to draw the Holocaust and we're not going to make death threats for it. So, they kind of missed the point. It seems like they're projecting.

Also, virtually all Holocaust deniers are Muslims or anti-Semitists in some way, so the Holocaust isn't so much a secular agenda as much as it is a non-anti-Semitist agenda. Heh.

 

[Nashy19]

I support them drawing, researching and arguing about the holocaust. I don't mind them denying it either, I just don't support wilful ignorance.

I worry that they will realise how they are the only one's who care about things like flag burning, and instead of learning from that, they will resort to more extreme types of "revenge" for the most insignificant things.

One Muslims threatened us with flag burning, when he realised nobody minded, he told us we must because we have laws against it. We don't actually have laws against flag burning but I think we have them against holocaust denial and I don't see why.

 

[monitoradiation]

They can go right ahead. Draw holocaust denial. See if I care. History will show who's right, and I'm not going to threaten to behead anyone.

Then they can exercise their right to cry me a fricking river.

 

[australopithecus]

I read a few of their discussions, such stupidity is downright painful. Physically painful. My head hurts now you'd think I'd be used to it having debated creationists and all but at least their arguments from ignorance are based on not understanding science, which can be a little difficult at times. Holocaust denial is denying living history...I mean people are still alive you lived/saw those things....

Don't get me wrong, free speech and all that and the holocaust is not a sacred cow, but really?

Humanity makes me very sad

 

[TheTruePooka]

The difference is that this event is based on lies, half truths and inaccuracies. Right in the description, they put forth the whole;

"Hitler was an Atheist" canard.

then again, they were wrong in their interpretation of the Quran when it comes to depicting Muhammad, so is it any surprise they're wrong with the information here as well?

I hope they go for it. The amount of Fail Material they provide will keep me in pwnage videos for years to come.

Hey, I may even participate.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

This is the same sort of thinking that explains why American fundamentalists and right-wing experiences are so terrible at comedy. There's a reason why there's no right-wing version of Stephen Colbert or Jon Stewart, and no evangelical Christian version of George Carlin.

I think that since fundamentalist extremists see things in the sort of black and white terms and have a hard time understanding the world as it is versus the world as they want it to be, they are incapable of producing comedy, satire, or clever protest. Plus, their anger seems to be based on a sort of incoherent and childish "I'm not getting my way! I'm not sure why or who's to blame, so I'm going to be mad at everybody!" attitude, instead of the narrow and specific targets that good comedians, satirists, and protesters aim themselves at.

So, these Muslim extremists simply don't understand Draw Muhammad Day as anything deeper than "nonbelievers did something we don't like!!! WAAAAHHHHH!!!!" So, since they don't understand DMD, their response to it is a nonsensical "We'll draw something THEY don't like!!! WAAAAHHHHH!!!!" (In my head, Muslim extremists all sound like Eric Cartman with a Johnny Quest villain accent.) They want to hurt us and don't understand how, because they really don't understand that DMD can't hurt them... they can only decide to be hurt of their own free will, and THEY are responsible for how they feel. Not us, not a drawing of Muhammad, not their holy men or their political leaders. They feel hurt because they choose to, and Draw Muhammad Day makes the point of how silly it is for them to do so over nothing.

I mean, they aren't even clever enough to come up with an "Draw an Upside-Down Cross Day" or something at least remotely similar to DMD. Maybe we should help them? :twisted:

 

[Lurking_Logic]

Well imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
but seriously they picked a rather lame way to copy DMD

But then again promoting awareness of the tragedy of the past can't be all bad and if they go too far with it then just make themselves look not only historically ignorant but also insensitive and cruel.
I can't see this going well for them