Discussion on the most notorious section of the U.S constitution

[Sparhafoc]

Refute it then. Prove me wrong dickhead.

You're wrong.

There you go - refuted and proven wrong according to exactly the same laughably inane standards you use in attempting to prove you're right.

 

[BoganUSAFFLClerk]

You do understand why I do not just take your word for it? My life is at stake, I need more than your word. Also, you are a deadly threat just by carrying a gun around, even if you do not want to harm anyone. You can always have a psychotic episode, get intoxicated and lose your reason thanks to that or trip and accidentally discharge your gun.
Nevermind that we all got a bad day making us feel suicidal or homicidal every now and then.


And you do not think thats a problem? We are talking deadly weapons here and not toys, there is a bare minimum of responsibility that comes with owning something like that.
And interesting enough, toys are actually regulated more heavily than guns in those 21 states.


If your problem is the DMV .. then let the NRA handle it, or the military. Who better to give you training in handling a gun and how to store it safely?


Holy just means "unchangable, untouchable". The problem is the belief that the constitution can not be changed or rather, people arguing it can not be, based on their preferences. Of course it can. Also .. a gun as a natural right is a bit ... out there.



Uhm yeah, assaults and robberies going up is exactly what you would expect, when people are broke, laden with debt and homeless.
Would happen with or without guns.
No clue why people would get rapey though, maybe its the stress.


No one made that claim. Oh and btw. one of the safest Nations on earth, Switzerland, is also the most heavily armed nation in Europe. No mass shootings, barely any violent crime ... all thanks to proper social policies, government assistance, proper drug laws and draconian gun control.
You see, in Switzerland military service is mandatory and everyone gets a rifle for that and gets to keep it afterwards.


Australia actually managed to solve all of that. But you dont have to go as far as the Ausssies did, it would already be a great first step to stop selling guns to ... everyone. Give it a generation afterwards and see how that goes, then take additional steps.
And laws and regulations can be changed ... you know, thats kinda the job of the government. The only thing that matters is what society wants and thats overwhelmingly more regulations for firearms.


70% of American adults supported stricter gun laws, according to a CNN poll with a margin of error of +/- 3.7%. 75% of American adults supported stricter gun laws, according to an NPR/Ipsos poll with a margin of error of +/- 3.5%

Will it help? Definitely. Will it be a "silver bullet"? No way in hell. There is so much more broken in the US, than just the gun laws and constitution, creating desperate people fighting for their life left and right.

Speaking of the constitution ... that needs to be looked over and updated anyways, not just the 2nd amendment, but also the 13th. Nevermind that they could cut the 2 that deal with prohibition completly by now.

Considering I have carried firearms starting in California, Nevada and Tennessee legally for about a decade that is very unlikely. Actually permit holders commit LESS CRIMES compared to uniformed police officers in the U.S. as a per 100,000 basis. We are safer with firearms and commit less crimes compared to law enforcement.

Considering the arbitrary training required by certain countries explained to me it seems like those standards are completely arbitrary benchmarks and have nothing to do with merit. Aka if you have a have a certain number hours instead of demonstrational competence then the arbitrary metrics I won't support at all. It is needless complication and cost nothing more. 75 and then another 75 and then governmental fee on top of governmental fee is worthless. All so you can exercise a right that is supposed to be guaranteed to you. We have laws against poll taxes and I consider a tax on the second amendment to be just as gross. I highly doubt toys are regulated more than firearms. I think you read the news and believe them too much and are simply ignorant of the law here.

The problem with the DMV is that they are bloated and guess what if the U.S. government or any government for that matter is supposed to be charged with the training and processing of applications to be gun owners or carriers or whatever those wait times are disgusting in order to exercise a right. To get a driver's license it was multiple visits to the DMV for a 6 hour wait. Unacceptable for a number of reasons. Also the may issue stances by other governments is also disgusting it should be handled at worst as a shall issue.

I think people say you can't change it as something no different as it is totally unlikely. In order to change the 2nd amendment you would need a supermajority of states and convene congress to hear an amendment. Do you really think you are going to get a 2/3 vote on the language of amendment repealing the second amendment after 21 states have already made it legal to carry firearms without a permit? How about the fact that the number of states that allow car carry even with public carry requiring a permit is almost all 50 states with loaded handguns?

People rape for a number of reasons. I suppose the most intuitive is the simple fact of mass release of convicted felons by Trump and Biden pending the Covid outbreak for "house arrest" and the simple fact that repeat violent crime is the status quo for the U.S. people are not reformed generally. It is likely they will commit same or similar crime upon being released.

Your example is a terrible example in order to convince someone with ultimate control over their own firearms. Those near the alps mostly have their firearms stored in national armories and no longer allowed to be held at the home due to the increase of homicidal and suicidal soldiers and malintents going into the military and planning to commit crimes with government issued property. This is also why you cannot even buy 6.5 swiss for your service weapon without direct governmental authority for practice. If it is so safe why not simply move there? If it is so desirable then move.

Australia didn't solve anything they still had 14 mass shootings post 1996 gun control legislation scheme depending on how define mass shooting. That doesn't seem like they addressed their mass shooting problem. It also doesn't mean that people have accurate information when they claim Australian mass shootings post 1996 is 0. It is not 0. The whole point of me arguing about America gun control is that it is already established and they had opportunity after opportunity to change the law and implementation of the law to make it work better and yet they didn't. They could they legally could and yet they did not. All they did was pass meaningless infuriating crap that I outline and go over in another thread I have made on this forum.

You can manipulate polls so easily I don't take them seriously at all. The people I overwhelmingly sell to for firearms at an FFL is people that have lived and moved from anti gun states and what did they do upon arriving and getting a resident I.D.? Buy a firearm if not more than 1. I simply don't don't see it as a practical matter they are still buying firearms that people claim they shouldn't have.

If you want to fix anything then lots of people will have to die. The lowest of the low in prison without any opportunity of parole with heinous crimes and are connected to gang leadership should be executed. The people arrested purely for drugs? They should be let out and laws against drug use should be rid of.

Technically you cannot remove an amendment. You have to have an amendment to remove an amendment. So you would be adding another amendment to repeal the second amendment if you are going to get rid of it altogether.

 

[Deleted member 42253]

Considering I have carried firearms starting in California, Nevada and Tennessee legally for about a decade that is very unlikely. Actually permit holders commit LESS CRIMES compared to uniformed police officers in the U.S. as a per 100,000 basis. We are safer with firearms and commit less crimes compared to law enforcement.

Citation needed. Though I dont disagree with the US police being a hazard for public safety, especially black people.

Considering the arbitrary training required by certain countries explained to me it seems like those standards are completely arbitrary benchmarks and have nothing to do with merit. Aka if you have a have a certain number hours instead of demonstrational competence then the arbitrary metrics I won't support at all. It is needless complication and cost nothing more. 75 and then another 75 and then governmental fee on top of governmental fee is worthless. All so you can exercise a right that is supposed to be guaranteed to you. We have laws against poll taxes and I consider a tax on the second amendment to be just as gross. I highly doubt toys are regulated more than firearms. I think you read the news and believe them too much and are simply ignorant of the law here.

Yes, everything is arbitrary. Thats how making rules, regulations and laws work.
Also, no one is saying you should pay anything for it .. but then again, why not? Most gun owners would pay for professional weapons or survival training anyways, no?
And you really need to scrap that notion, that gun ownership is a right. Sure it is, right now, cause some guys decided on it(Gotta keep in mind, that was not a democratic decision, but an arbitrary one by unelected buerocrats), but that can always be changed.

The problem with the DMV is that they are bloated and guess what if the U.S. government or any government for that matter is supposed to be charged with the training and processing of applications to be gun owners or carriers or whatever those wait times are disgusting in order to exercise a right. To get a driver's license it was multiple visits to the DMV for a 6 hour wait. Unacceptable for a number of reasons. Also the may issue stances by other governments is also disgusting it should be handled at worst as a shall issue.

Yeah, the DMV sucks.

I think people say you can't change it as something no different as it is totally unlikely. In order to change the 2nd amendment you would need a supermajority of states and convene congress to hear an amendment. Do you really think you are going to get a 2/3 vote on the language of amendment repealing the second amendment after 21 states have already made it legal to carry firearms without a permit? How about the fact that the number of states that allow car carry even with public carry requiring a permit is almost all 50 states with loaded handguns?

First step: Make up your mind to change it. After that, you can start working on the issue and try to figure out a way to get it done.
Also, there is no need to change the 2nd amendment .. you can regulate guns without changing it. Also keep in mind, that your right to bear arms, is a question of interpretation. The 2nd amendment also mentions well regulated militia ... and that could also be interpreted as "no guns for normal people, only for the police and military".
Btw. could always just ban bullets. 2nd amendment, doesnt say anything about your right to own bullets.

People rape for a number of reasons. I suppose the most intuitive is the simple fact of mass release of convicted felons by Trump and Biden pending the Covid outbreak for "house arrest" and the simple fact that repeat violent crime is the status quo for the U.S. people are not reformed generally. It is likely they will commit same or similar crime upon being released.

Citation needed. Nevermind Trump, but I highly doubt Biden released any violent criminals. I do remember that one Republican Governour though, that released pretty much everyone as a smokescreen to hide, that he basically "broke" some of his buddies out of prison. Including the worst scum that walks the earth.

Your example is a terrible example in order to convince someone with ultimate control over their own firearms. Those near the alps mostly have their firearms stored in national armories and no longer allowed to be held at the home due to the increase of homicidal and suicidal soldiers and malintents going into the military and planning to commit crimes with government issued property. This is also why you cannot even buy 6.5 swiss for your service weapon without direct governmental authority for practice. If it is so safe why not simply move there? If it is so desirable then move.

Really, so people join the military in Switzerland, to get a gun and commit crimes? Got no choice but to call bullshit here.
And I would love to move to Switzerland. Just need a money, a job and learn the language first ... then give up all my friends and family, my beautiful home and ... Nevermind that I love my motherland enough, to try to better it.

Australia didn't solve anything they still had 14 mass shootings post 1996 gun control legislation scheme depending on how define mass shooting. That doesn't seem like they addressed their mass shooting problem. It also doesn't mean that people have accurate information when they claim Australian mass shootings post 1996 is 0. It is not 0. The whole point of me arguing about America gun control is that it is already established and they had opportunity after opportunity to change the law and implementation of the law to make it work better and yet they didn't. They could they legally could and yet they did not. All they did was pass meaningless infuriating crap that I outline and go over in another thread I have made on this forum.

The Australian government, which sucks, disagrees with you there. And despite my hatred for the Australian government, I take their word for it over yours.

You can manipulate polls so easily I don't take them seriously at all. The people I overwhelmingly sell to for firearms at an FFL is people that have lived and moved from anti gun states and what did they do upon arriving and getting a resident I.D.? Buy a firearm if not more than 1. I simply don't don't see it as a practical matter they are still buying firearms that people claim they shouldn't have.

So you do not accept any polls?

If you want to fix anything then lots of people will have to die. The lowest of the low in prison without any opportunity of parole with heinous crimes and are connected to gang leadership should be executed. The people arrested purely for drugs? They should be let out and laws against drug use should be rid of.

So .. kinda like the former Soviet Union, just with legal drugs?

Technically you cannot remove an amendment. You have to have an amendment to remove an amendment. So you would be adding another amendment to repeal the second amendment if you are going to get rid of it altogether.

Technically does not matter, if a majority of US citizens decides to, they can erase the whole thing with Tip-EX.
The constitution is not holy. The amendments especially are not.

You do know we, as a society, make the rules? Except for basic human rights and some international stuff, we can change anything and everything as much as we like. You and me personally, sure, we need to follow the rules, but we, collectivly, can change any and all rules.

 

[Led Zeppelin]

Stop being a cocksucker and just argue the point.

YOU stop being a cocksucker! Cocksucker!

 

[Sparhafoc]

YOU stop being a cocksucker! Cocksucker!

Look guys.

There's enough cocks to go round. We can all suck them.