Colloidal Silver

[Niocan]

ExeFBM I take great care in washing out the glass jars with distilled water before hand and once the solution is made I just place a cap on it. The only thing in contact with the water at any time are the two silver electrodes, with no apparent Tyndall effect before hand.
I can safely conclude it's just silver.

Edit: I should correct to say, that I fill the jar with distilled water, observe no Tyndall effect, then add the last 1/5th or so from my previous batch. This is to negate the issue of the huge ramp up time and the lack of conductivity of distilled water. The first batch does occur, but like I've said it takes far longer (6+hrs).

 

[scalyblue]

I can safely conclude it's just silver.

No, you can't.

 

[Niocan]

99.99% silver Maple coins from the Canadian Mint, ~20L (5gal) distilled water, and 27V@.5mA current passed through 1" of distilled water, which you may see as the problem but I can't comment on any other way then it works for me, and many others. The exact process is probably different, and may have to do with the conductivity of silver, I'm not sure.

What I can be sure of, is that the only two things in that jar are silver and water.

 

[ExeFBM]

The contaminant is still apparent even in the long time for the original run. The contaminant is most likely either in your distilled water, or on the silver. Washing with distilled water would not be sufficient to remove any kind of hydrophobic impurity, or organic compounds which could form ligands or salts with the silver ions. Silver salts will always be picked up by the body, regardless of their size.

 

[Niocan]

Alright then, lets say there's a small amount of something in there the first time. From the third batch and on the concentrations of which would be so minute (as if it wasn't in the first place) to not warrant any concern, as the body will chelate it out as long as you aren't taking retarded amounts for long periods of time.. So why nitpick?

 

[ExeFBM]

Alright then, lets say there's a small amount of something in there the first time. From the third batch and on the concentrations of which would be so minute (as if it wasn't in the first place) to not warrant any concern, as the body will chelate it out as long as you aren't taking retarded amounts for long periods of time.. So why nitpick?

This isn't nitpicking. You've stated that the concentrations you're making are weak, so a small amount of any impurity could be favoured in any reaction, and be the dominant product. Unless you know what the contaminant is, you can't say how favoured it will be in any reaction.

Lets say that the manufacturers of the glass jars you use want to make their jars look extra glistening, so they apply a layer of polish to the inside and outside of the glass. Your weak concentration of (maybe) silver ions reacts with the polish, and removes around 5% of it. With your recycled water, this could work for maybe 40 batches.

This is just one scenario of many that could result in impurities reacting with your desired product. Saying that the concentrations are so weak that nothing bad could happen is naive. You don't know what you're making, and so you don't know what it's toxicity, bioavailability, or how easily it can be excreted from your system. If at all.

 

[Niocan]

You're also just stating any situation that leads itself away from the concept of colloidal silver itself. The slight errors that may occur with me can be fixed by you, but only if you test it yourself.

 

[borrofburi]

On top of this, you cannot differentiate between your perceived results, and the placebo effect. Crystal healers, homeopaths, and astrologers, also claim that their methods are successful, and all it takes is for you to try them to see. Try to look at it from our perspective. How is your claim different from a crystal healers, bearing in mind that the crystal healer has also experienced perceived positive effects from their own methods?

QFT

 

[ExeFBM]

You're also just stating any situation that leads itself away from the concept of colloidal silver itself. The slight errors that may occur with me can be fixed by you, but only if you test it yourself.

I don't believe that your method produces colloidal silver. I don't know what it produces, and I'm a chemist. I've been a chemist for 10 years, and one of the first rules is 'don't drink your experiments'. Even if you think you know what it is, something unexpected may have happened. You've not tried to identify what it is you've produced, but you're happy to drink it.

I have no idea what effects drinking colloidal silver would have. Anyone who claims to have made it, has probably used a similar method to you, so I am dubious of any claims they tie to it. Unless they can demonstrate that they have actually made colloidal silver, and can rule out a placebo effect, my skepticism is not going to change.

 

[Niocan]

On top of this, you cannot differentiate between your perceived results, and the placebo effect. Crystal healers, homeopaths, and astrologers, also claim that their methods are successful, and all it takes is for you to try them to see. Try to look at it from our perspective. How is your claim different from a crystal healers, bearing in mind that the crystal healer has also experienced perceived positive effects from their own methods?

QFT

Silver has known properties, these properties are retained and in fact enhanced by the increased surface area of colloids, the body will handle them like all other trace minerals, and the concentrations for antimicrobial activity are low enough to spare your own cells by a wide degree of margin.
Science, is how you can trust what I say and learn from it.

 

[Niocan]

I don't believe that your method produces colloidal silver. I don't know what it produces, and I'm a chemist. I've been a chemist for 10 years, and one of the first rules is 'don't drink your experiments'. Even if you think you know what it is, something unexpected may have happened. You've not tried to identify what it is you've produced, but you're happy to drink it.

I have no idea what effects drinking colloidal silver would have. Anyone who claims to have made it, has probably used a similar method to you, so I am dubious of any claims they tie to it. Unless they can demonstrate that they have actually made colloidal silver, and can rule out a placebo effect, my skepticism is not going to change.

And I wish I can bridge the gap of misunderstanding between us because of your knowledge, but I'm at a loss. :s This approach to it is well out of your standards of experimentation, and I apologize for that, but it's the best I can do and it seems to work very well.

I have nothing to lie about, I just want to understand this to its fullest degree and this is what I observe.

 

[borrofburi]

it seems to work very well.

you cannot differentiate between your perceived results, and the placebo effect.

 

[Niocan]

It works very well in terms of the production, and that's only what I meant in that sentence.

 

[scalyblue]

It works very well in terms of the production, and that's only what I meant in that sentence.

How do you know? Is that a mass spectrometer in your pants or are you just an idiot?

 

[kf00kaha]

Silver has known properties, these properties are retained and in fact enhanced by the increased surface area of colloids, the body will handle them like all other trace minerals,

Well, in fact the properties of silver, as well as other elements, change quite substantially with decreased size. I'm not really sure how large these colloidal particles you say you're making are (assuming you really make them, which I believe is highly unlikely), you might have mentioned it, but this is a very long thread. However, the change in properties is due to the fact that as particles become very small, the number of steps and kinks on the surface becomes higher, which makes the particles more feasible for surface reactions, i.e. they work better as catalysts for different reactions. These reactions are commonly (but certainly not always) oxidation reactions. This, you can look up in any basic book about heterogeneous catalysis.

Now, I am not an expert in medicine/pharmaceuticals or biology etc., but I'm researching in silver catalysts (for completely different applications, namely NOx reduction catalysts), so at least I can tell you that you shouldn't be so sure about the properties of the silver, unless you really have determined the properties of the eventual silver you have in the water. I can't say what the impact on the cells would be, but I would pass to drink your so called sol.

Besides, trace minerals are ingested as salts, since it's the ion form the body needs to be able to use them.

Science, is how you can trust what I say and learn from it.

Nope, that is certainly NOT science. That's the most amazingly stupid claim you have made so far!

 

[Marcus]

It works very well in terms of the production, and that's only what I meant in that sentence.

How do you know? Is that a mass spectrometer in your pants or are you just an idiot?

I'm going to go for option B.

 

[Niocan]

However, the change in properties is due to the fact that as particles become very small, the number of steps and kinks on the surface becomes higher, which makes the particles more feasible for surface reactions, i.e. they work better as catalysts for different reactions. These reactions are commonly (but certainly not always) oxidation reactions. This, you can look up in any basic book about heterogeneous catalysis.

Thanks for verifying my claim As for the particle sizes they're very small when made with the low voltage / current setup over quite some time.

Now, I am not an expert in medicine/pharmaceuticals or biology etc., but I'm researching in silver catalysts (for completely different applications, namely NOx reduction catalysts), so at least I can tell you that you shouldn't be so sure about the properties of the silver, unless you really have determined the properties of the eventual silver you have in the water. I can't say what the impact on the cells would be, but I would pass to drink your so called sol.

Silver, being a noble metal, is quite harmless to the body in these sizes and amounts. It can be safely said, that your tap water is more harmful then this solution (Assuming it's not filtered, and the usual municipality water treatments apply).

Besides, trace minerals are ingested as salts, since it's the ion form the body needs to be able to use them.

Very interesting, with that being said the body would absorb silver chloride better correct? It would turn it into a salt, but the body is very used to clearing away chloride compounds thanks to your stomach acid (HCl). This may be a way to increase its bioavailability of the silver, but this is a hypothetical approach that has nothing to do with the discussion.. Let me know what you think

 

[scalyblue]

Thanks for verifying my claim As for the particle sizes they're very small when made with the low voltage / current setup over quite some time.

How do you know? You have no knowledge of chemistry, you have no knowledge of electronics, and you don't have access to a scanning electron microscope last time I checked.

Silver, being a noble metal, is quite harmless to the body in these sizes and amounts. It can be safely said, that your tap water is more harmful then this solution (Assuming it's not filtered, and the usual municipality water treatments apply).

The only thing that distinguishes a noble metal from other metals is their tendancy to be resistant to corrision or oxidation in the air. Mercury is also a noble metal, are you implying that because it's a noble metal it's also harmless to the body? What about ruthenium? or palladium? What about rhodium, and osmium. Oh, how about iridium? Or Gold? Osmium is HIGHLY toxic in MINUTE quantities, but by your logic it's not.

Very interesting, with that being said the body would absorb silver chloride better correct? It would turn it into a salt, but the body is very used to clearing away chloride compounds thanks to your stomach acid (HCl). This may be a way to increase its bioavailability of the silver, but this is a hypothetical approach that has nothing to do with the discussion.. Let me know what you think

You fail biology forever. I guess, thanks to stomach acid, we don't have to worry about salt as a source of sodium because the body is very used to clearing away chloride compounds.

 

[Niocan]

It matches the claims, and observations of others talking about the substance;

Noble metals are less reactive when compared to say, fluoride or chlorine in the water. Also, there are other substances such as colloidal gold; platinum, and copper that have their own effects in the body but this isn't part of the discussion at hand: Colloidal Silver.

Keep up kiddo.

 

[scalyblue]

No.
No.
No.

I'm not allowing you to get away with this again. You will not be permitted to ignore refuting evidence anymore.

You made a claim.

Silver, being a noble metal, is quite harmless to the body in these sizes and amounts.

You are claiming that silver is harmless to the body in these sizes and amounts (of which sizes and amounts you have no idea, but let's not get into that) Your reasoning for that claim is because silver is a noble metal.

I provided evidence to refute that claim.

Now acknowledge that that claim is refuted.

Hurry.

You will not be allowed to reiterate the same, refuted claim using slightly different words while pretending that you're speaking from an insular high ground.

You. Are. Wrong.
Admit it, the fact that a metal is noble does *not* make it safe for human consumption.

Man Up and admit that you're wrong.