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Shanara99 said:I accept your point, tuxbox, but I disagree on the premise that communism must be imposed by a revolution, killing those who disagree with it.
As proof I present you with the intriguing case of Marinaleda, a county in Spain which happens to be communist, and noone was killed to impose it.
Edit: they also happen to be mostly christian there. Catholic, to be precise.
tuxbox said:I was unaware of Marinaleda. I had to use Wikipedia to look it up. They are described as communist, but I doubt Marx would agree.
tuxbox said:Shanara99 said:I accept your point, tuxbox, but I disagree on the premise that communism must be imposed by a revolution, killing those who disagree with it.
As proof I present you with the intriguing case of Marinaleda, a county in Spain which happens to be communist, and noone was killed to impose it.
Edit: they also happen to be mostly christian there. Catholic, to be precise.
I was unaware of Marinaleda. I had to use Wikipedia to look it up. They are described as communist, but I doubt Marx would agree.
WarK said:No true communist™?
Anyways, I found the picutre funny because the US media, namely FoxNews, seem to think that it's impossible. They think that those two are ultimate opposites.
They also think that greed driven capitalism is what Christ wanted.
Shanara99 said:tuxbox said:I was unaware of Marinaleda. I had to use Wikipedia to look it up. They are described as communist, but I doubt Marx would agree.
Yeah, I didn't link because I only had spanish links, I don't think Marx would agree, either... but hey, they claim to be communist. And I just refuse to commit a "no true Christian" fallacy there.
sick_jesus said:If you think of the model of communism as a straight line and the model of Christianity as a triangle, then in order to make communism compatible with Christianity you'd have to distort (revise) the line.
So there could be Christian communism but it'd have to be a highly revised form of communism, and like Stalinism it would finally have little to do with the original concept.
Or they could go about it the other way around and unfold the triangle, turn it into a flat line. In that instance:
Sure, a Christian could be a communist, they'd just have to get rid of Jesus and God and hope their brains could recover in the process.
If a Christian ever turned up at my communist group he'd get badly beaten first and then raped. That's how we convert them types (logic just doesn't work).
tuxbox said:sick_jesus said:Sure, a Christian could be a communist, they'd just have to get rid of Jesus and God and hope their brains could recover in the process.
If a Christian ever turned up at my communist group he'd get badly beaten first and then raped. That's how we convert them types (logic just doesn't work).
You made perfect sense up until the highlighted part.
sick_jesus said:Had to give them something to bite on!
But seriously, the first line (getting rid of Jesus and God) refers to the inverse of making communism fitting Christianity. So if instead they did it the other way around and made Christianity fit communism, they'd have to get rid of their hierarchical and autocratic system (making the triangular system flat). That'd mean having no god's head at the mast.
Second line was just the bait, and the serious part of that is what was put between brackets: logical argument with religious types just doesn't work.
Does that save my soul? :?: :twisted:
Laurens said:People have an amazing ability to combine all-sorts of disparate beliefs. The worst offenders are those New Age types who would tell you that all religions are true and that pretty much all conspiracy theories are also true.
sick_jesus said:Laurens said:People have an amazing ability to combine all-sorts of disparate beliefs. The worst offenders are those New Age types who would tell you that all religions are true and that pretty much all conspiracy theories are also true.
They think that's being open-minded.... though if your mind's that open it allows all kinds of shit in. I don't mind them saving trees, it's when they then marry them when I have a problem.
WarK said:I think that Lauren's point was that people can hold contradicting beliefs. There are Christians who are communists or socialists or neo-nazi. Just because they hold such contradicting beliefs doesn't mean that they aren't true this nor true that.
Christianity itself has contradicting beliefs. They believe there's only one god but then they have three gods and a goddess. If you want to be strict about this you'd have to say that there can be no true Christians by definition.
Master_Ghost_Knight said:What are you guys talking about? Jesus would have been the biggest commie were he to be real.
There is a big miss apprehension by Americans in regards to communism. It's propagandist a reminiscent of the cold war where you had to identified the enemy in clear lines and evil.
Just because you are communist it doesn't mean that you are getting the full Marxist, Stalinist, absolute dictatorial, "I'm going to work you to death in a gulag if you disagree with me", package.
I personally don't see anything wrong with the idea of having a common infrastructure of society shared equally regardless of birth right or economic status, and putting those resources at work together for a common good. I have no problem with trying to balance the economic disparity between classes. I suspect that is part of the appeal of communism and why so many countries adopt it.
However I have a big issue in the way it has been implemented in most countries, which is generally through an unquestioned absolute dictatorial rule, complemented with taught police, oppression of the masses to demand conformity as dictated by the ruling class, and a singe of imperialist expansionist ideology with a monarch wannabe tendencies. Reason why you should hate the political system of most of the countries identifying themselves as communist. The problem is not the communist part, it's the absolute dictatorship complemented with systems of oppression part.
Master_Ghost_Knight said:What are you guys talking about? Jesus would have been the biggest commie were he to be real.
There is a big miss apprehension by Americans in regards to communism. It's propagandist a reminiscent of the cold war where you had to identified the enemy in clear lines and evil.
Just because you are communist it doesn't mean that you are getting the full Marxist, Stalinist, absolute dictatorial, "I'm going to work you to death in a gulag if you disagree with me", package.
I personally don't see anything wrong with the idea of having a common infrastructure of society shared equally regardless of birth right or economic status, and putting those resources at work together for a common good. I have no problem with trying to balance the economic disparity between classes. I suspect that is part of the appeal of communism and why so many countries adopt it.
However I have a big issue in the way it has been implemented in most countries, which is generally through an unquestioned absolute dictatorial rule, complemented with taught police, oppression of the masses to demand conformity as dictated by the ruling class, and a singe of imperialist expansionist ideology with a monarch wannabe tendencies. Reason why you should hate the political system of most of the countries identifying themselves as communist. The problem is not the communist part, it's the absolute dictatorship complemented with systems of oppression part.