Master_Ghost_Knight said:The answer is a resounding No. This should have been obvious by what I just stated, the fact that you didn't get that means that you are not equipped for this debate.leroy said:The question is: do you grant that the universe had an efficient cause? Yes or no, if not why not.?
And the reason why it is a definite No. It's because the concept of "efficient cause" as you put it is meaningless.
Ok, since you reject the conclusion, please clarify, which of the 2 premises do you find problematic?
It's because the concept of "efficient cause" as you put it is meaningless.
Well why? I am not inventing any new terms, with efficient cause, I mean what everybody means by it.
If you what to argue that efficient causes, necessarily imply a material cause, you would have to justify that assertion with some sort of argument.