Anyone Else Get This?

[MRaverz]

I find myself making sense when thinking really in-depth about life's big questions, yet making a fool of myself when talking about the 'real world'.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here? Any way to cure my inability to behave less dorkish on a real life scale? :lol:

 

[Fictionarious]

Ringing a bell? It's breaking mine.

I have no advice, though I will second your asking for it.

 

[nemesiss]

hmm, big life questions?

how about breaking them into smaller questions.
smaller questions are ussually ALOT more easier to solve, like a puzzle.
at the end combine all the answers and you should be able to have a strong answer for the big one.
if you still look dorkie, blame the one asking the questions.

 

[WRT54G]

A friend and I have some pet theories regarding social interaction. It's something I sort of study on my free time based on my personal interactions with people. The issue here is something I'm very familiar with.

I haven't nailed even a vague idea as to why it happens, but it seems you can chalk it up to a person's capacity for practical though versus theoretical thought. Practical thought requires much more "down to earth", "in the moment" awareness and processing of the situation. It's probably tied to your problem solving skills and attention span. Theoretical mental wanderings on the other hand don't/aren't. They merely require a large capacity for thought and comprehension.

In simple terms, you probably have the mind of a philosopher and not the mind of a hunter.

 

[creativesoul]

http://www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_saxe_how_brains_make_moral_judgments.html

 

[5810Singer]

I find myself making sense when thinking really in-depth about life's big questions, yet making a fool of myself when talking about the 'real world'.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here? Any way to cure my inability to behave less dorkish on a real life scale? :lol:

How old are you?

 

[MRaverz]

I find myself making sense when thinking really in-depth about life's big questions, yet making a fool of myself when talking about the 'real world'.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here? Any way to cure my inability to behave less dorkish on a real life scale? :lol:

How old are you?

17, 18 in April.

I feel old saying that, I feel younger.

 

[5810Singer]

How old are you?

17, 18 in April.

I feel old saying that, I feel younger.

Old? I'm 37 and my daughter's only 5yrs younger than you.

You're not going to like what I say next, and I didn't like it when I was 17 either, but.............

By and large to speak with authority on any given topic one has to have personal experience of it, but being a 17yr old westerner you're unlikely to have had many of the formative real world experiences that someone of my age or older will have had.

I'll use parenting as an example of what I mean.
I remember that I used to have very different ideas about child raising before I was a parent, and after being a parent for only a year or two I realised just how idealistic and impractical many of my views on the subject had been.
On top of that there were certain areas of parenting that I had completely wrong, and there were also areas that I hadn't even conceived of before having a child of my own.

I think the best analogy is to compare life to a journey through a landscape, and imagine each year of life as a mile of travel.
You're 17 miles down the path, but I'm 20 miles ahead of you. In between us is a mountain that you haven't reached yet, but which I passed many miles ago.
You make an educated guess as to what is on the side of the mountain that you can't see yet. But I don't need to guess, I've been there and I know what the truth is.
Even if you guess correctly you're still guessing, whereas I actually know the truth, my opinion is not conjecture, or at least is far less conjectural.

This may seem condescending (it certainly did when I was 17), but as aggravating as it may be it's still true, and you can't really appreciate that until you've lived it.

Sorry.

 

[Prolescum]

I find myself making sense when thinking really in-depth about life's big questions, yet making a fool of myself when talking about the 'real world'.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here? Any way to cure my inability to behave less dorkish on a real life scale? :lol:

Get some eye glasses and look over them when you talk. Instant authority! Of course, you have to be obstinate, sharp and condescending too. Swift sleight of tongue puns are a fantastic source of distraction should you bite off more than you can chew...

 

[borrofburi]

[You're not going to like what I say next, and I didn't like it when I was 17 either, but.............

By and large to speak with authority on any given topic one has to have personal experience of it, but being a 17yr old westerner you're unlikely to have had many of the formative real world experiences that someone of my age or older will have had.

I'll use parenting as an example of what I mean.
I remember that I used to have very different ideas about child raising before I was a parent, and after being a parent for only a year or two I realised just how idealistic and impractical many of my views on the subject had been.
On top of that there were certain areas of parenting that I had completely wrong, and there were also areas that I hadn't even conceived of before having a child of my own.

I think the best analogy is to compare life to a journey through a landscape, and imagine each year of life as a mile of travel.
You're 17 miles down the path, but I'm 20 miles ahead of you. In between us is a mountain that you haven't reached yet, but which I passed many miles ago.
You make an educated guess as to what is on the side of the mountain that you can't see yet. But I don't need to guess, I've been there and I know what the truth is.
Even if you guess correctly you're still guessing, whereas I actually know the truth, my opinion is not conjecture, or at least is far less conjectural.

This may seem condescending (it certainly did when I was 17), but as aggravating as it may be it's still true, and you can't really appreciate that until you've lived it.

Sorry.

Being no longer 17 and not yet 35 (I think I'd rather not reveal my precise age, less because of this conversation and more because I'd rather not this identity and my real life accidentally mix), I disagree. And agree. The great advantage of being human is that we can learn from other people's experiences; this means I can take a developmental psychology course, I can watch my step mother raise her children and see what brats they turn out to be, I can watch my mentor raise his children and see that they are turning out to be (apparently) very good children; I can have all sorts of these experiences and synthesize them together, and to discount that as simply "a guess" is not only condescending, it's wrong.

Of course I don't have children, so this is really only a metaphor for other experiences I've had, however throughout my life I've done the best I possibly can to understand other people, and in the process of so doing, I've learned the answers to a lot of questions and lost most of the "idealistic" views about things such as parenting, understanding why, individuals (e.g. parents) do objectionable thing A when it seems like idealistic thing B is clearly superior. And while I am not a parent, I have still had experiences where those experiences were definitely not guess work, and really were quite accurate, though it's hard to specify.

On the other hand, I agree: you simply don't have a lot of life experience at the age of 17, or my age, or I would argue even at 35 (not sure where the line is though). I recall Jane (in Bronte's novel "Jane Eyre") at one point wishing she had more life experience, and while I've forgotten most of that novel, that phrase has always stuck with me. Of course, in recent years, I've realized that such a wish is almost a vain desire to shortcut the normal learning process of trying and failing a bunch of times.

But anyway, I agree and disagree: you don't have a lot of life experience at 17, but I disagree that means one's understanding of the practical is "guess work" or lacking value.

 

[MRaverz]

I find myself making sense when thinking really in-depth about life's big questions, yet making a fool of myself when talking about the 'real world'.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here? Any way to cure my inability to behave less dorkish on a real life scale? :lol:

Get some eye glasses and look over them when you talk. Instant authority! Of course, you have to be obstinate, sharp and condescending too. Swift sleight of tongue puns are a fantastic source of distraction should you bite off more than you can chew...

I've been wearing glasses since I was five!

But I'm only 5'8 so I can't really look over people, my girlfriend is 5'11" so I can't even look over her!

 

[Jotto999]

Old? I'm 37 and my daughter's only 5yrs younger than you.

You're not going to like what I say next, and I didn't like it when I was 17 either, but.............

By and large to speak with authority on any given topic one has to have personal experience of it, but being a 17yr old westerner you're unlikely to have had many of the formative real world experiences that someone of my age or older will have had.

I'll use parenting as an example of what I mean.
I remember that I used to have very different ideas about child raising before I was a parent, and after being a parent for only a year or two I realised just how idealistic and impractical many of my views on the subject had been.
On top of that there were certain areas of parenting that I had completely wrong, and there were also areas that I hadn't even conceived of before having a child of my own.

I think the best analogy is to compare life to a journey through a landscape, and imagine each year of life as a mile of travel.
You're 17 miles down the path, but I'm 20 miles ahead of you. In between us is a mountain that you haven't reached yet, but which I passed many miles ago.
You make an educated guess as to what is on the side of the mountain that you can't see yet. But I don't need to guess, I've been there and I know what the truth is.
Even if you guess correctly you're still guessing, whereas I actually know the truth, my opinion is not conjecture, or at least is far less conjectural.

This may seem condescending (it certainly did when I was 17), but as aggravating as it may be it's still true, and you can't really appreciate that until you've lived it.

Sorry.

I find that the guessing and conjecturing of young people can be mentally enriching and a great thing...if done right. If done wrong, and will lead the young person to silly or unrealistic conclusions.

As a young person though (19), I still have a flavor of idealism, so I'm biased. I've had some guesses from years ago, and looking back I continue to make modifications and improvements to my earlier conjectures, some of which have been badly inaccurate and I scrapped, some of which were good and I have not changed much, and continue to reinforced today.

If I had to "recommend" a few things to my fellow young people who conjecture:

1. If you think you have come to a good conclusion but others just don't get it, try to find a better way of explaining it. You might be right, but you might also have poor skills in explaining your opinion, which is really useless. See if others have tried to express the same opinion or conclusion. Who are they? How did they explain it? Did it help? What did people think?

Expressing your opinion is so much harder when you aren't articulate. Also, when people understand what you're trying to say, it will be easier for them to find flaws in your opinion, since they understand it better. Which is good, you want that.

2. Remember that you don't know what many others do, especially as a young person. I had a hard time accepting this, I think I'm finally settling down with the fact that people my age don't know much, in the grand scheme of things.

3. Learn. From from being wrong, the opinions of other people, from anything you can. Learn how to ignore your biases and go to a neutral, objective state of mind, do this frequently and use it to scrutinize your own opinions. Foster your appetite for knowledge. Accept that you can be wrong, and will be, at least some of the time. Also, study a variety of subjects. Try MIT's OCW. I'm studying psychology, economics, philosophy, and a few political courses, minus the textbooks, all for free. Hooray for the internet!

Other than that, let there be conjecture.

http://www.ted.com/talks/rebecca_saxe_how_brains_make_moral_judgments.html

Hey, that's a great video! Thanks for linking.

 

[Prolescum]

Get some eye glasses and look over them when you talk. Instant authority! Of course, you have to be obstinate, sharp and condescending too. Swift sleight of tongue puns are a fantastic source of distraction should you bite off more than you can chew...

I've been wearing glasses since I was five!

But I'm only 5'8 so I can't really look over people, my girlfriend is 5'11" so I can't even look over her!

I meant look over the top of the glasses, not the people...

 

[kenandkids]

Old? I'm 37 and my daughter's only 5yrs younger than you.



Sorry.

I'm 34 and my oldest is only 1 year younger...

 

[Andiferous]

Being no longer 17 and not yet 35 (I think I'd rather not reveal my precise age, less because of this conversation and more because I'd rather not this identity and my real life accidentally mix), I disagree. And agree. The great advantage of being human is that we can learn from other people's experiences; this means I can take a developmental psychology course, I can watch my step mother raise her children and see what brats they turn out to be, I can watch my mentor raise his children and see that they are turning out to be (apparently) very good children; I can have all sorts of these experiences and synthesize them together, and to discount that as simply "a guess" is not only condescending, it's wrong.

Of course I don't have children, so this is really only a metaphor for other experiences I've had, however throughout my life I've done the best I possibly can to understand other people, and in the process of so doing, I've learned the answers to a lot of questions and lost most of the "idealistic" views about things such as parenting, understanding why, individuals (e.g. parents) do objectionable thing A when it seems like idealistic thing B is clearly superior. And while I am not a parent, I have still had experiences where those experiences were definitely not guess work, and really were quite accurate, though it's hard to specify.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here, but if you are supposing that watching someone else raise children, being in proximity to children, or having regular contact with children is really any measure of what it's like to be a parent, you might as well be saying "I was a kid once, so I know what it's like to parent one." It may sound condescending, but having experienced both worlds, I can say this with absolute certainty.

On the other hand, we've all had different experiences and experience doesn't really have value in and of itself. Yours is no "better" and neither is mine, we're just different. We might learn the same lesson from different experiences, but we'll never have the same experience.

MRaverz: Yes, all the time.

3. Learn. From from being wrong, the opinions of other people, from anything you can. Learn how to ignore your biases and go to a neutral, objective state of mind, do this frequently and use it to scrutinize your own opinions. Foster your appetite for knowledge. Accept that you can be wrong, and will be, at least some of the time. Also, study a variety of subjects. Try MIT's OCW. I'm studying psychology, economics, philosophy, and a few political courses, minus the textbooks, all for free. Hooray for the internet!

I think you make great points, but I find it useful to be careful with this particular one. There's a balance between learning from other people and learning from your own mistakes. I find it's probably good advice to not be afraid to make mistakes, because this is part of living your own life. If you base all your actions on what other people tell you, then might as well be living theirs. With that said, I think I just told you not to listen to me.

 

[Andiferous]

But I'm only 5'8 so I can't really look over people, my girlfriend is 5'11" so I can't even look over her!

I meant look over the top of the glasses, not the people...

As an aside, you can't imagine how exciting it is getting the rare opportunity to see the top of people's heads.

 

[borrofburi]

Being no longer 17 and not yet 35 (I think I'd rather not reveal my precise age, less because of this conversation and more because I'd rather not this identity and my real life accidentally mix), I disagree. And agree. The great advantage of being human is that we can learn from other people's experiences; this means I can take a developmental psychology course, I can watch my step mother raise her children and see what brats they turn out to be, I can watch my mentor raise his children and see that they are turning out to be (apparently) very good children; I can have all sorts of these experiences and synthesize them together, and to discount that as simply "a guess" is not only condescending, it's wrong.

Of course I don't have children, so this is really only a metaphor for other experiences I've had, however throughout my life I've done the best I possibly can to understand other people, and in the process of so doing, I've learned the answers to a lot of questions and lost most of the "idealistic" views about things such as parenting, understanding why, individuals (e.g. parents) do objectionable thing A when it seems like idealistic thing B is clearly superior. And while I am not a parent, I have still had experiences where those experiences were definitely not guess work, and really were quite accurate, though it's hard to specify.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here, but if you are supposing that watching someone else raise children, being in proximity to children, or having regular contact with children is really any measure of what it's like to be a parent, you might as well be saying "I was a kid once, so I know what it's like to parent one." It may sound condescending, but having experienced both worlds, I can say this with absolute certainty.

While I unfortunately can't provide a good response to the specific example brought up (i.e. parenting) (except to note that you are saying your experience was that being a parent was entirely different from what you learned and thought about parenting, and you are applying your experience saying mine can't be different), I will instead note that I wasn't ever meaning to speak about parenting itself, for as you correctly noted, I have never been a parent. Rather I was talking about other (unfortunately non-specific) things in my life where I watched very closely how person A did action X, and person B did action X, and listened to why person C though action X should be done in manner C, etc. and I have had times where my understanding of X was barely different from the actuality of X despite never having personally experienced X before, and for Singer to simply say "You can't know anything because you've barely personally experienced anything"*** is unfair and inaccurate.

***I am mostly putting words in his mouth, this is not what he said, what he said was far more thoughtful than to be summarized in a few words, please read his response for greater accuracy

 

[Andiferous]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're being very unfair. Singer's post is a thoughtful response to the insecurities in question.

I find myself making sense when thinking really in-depth about life's big questions, yet making a fool of myself when talking about the 'real world'.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here? Any way to cure my inability to behave less dorkish on a real life scale? :lol:

I read Singer's post as a reassurance that they exist, we all have them, but time and experience related insecurities can't be rushed and should just be accepted as part of life.

But to be honest, the older I get, the more obvious it seems to me that people like to think they know more than they do; and it just seems to me that maturity is an acceptance that we don't. So I think it's quite right to say that most of us live life via guesses and hypotheticals and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[MRaverz]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're being very unfair. Singer's post is a thoughtful response to the insecurities in question.

I find myself making sense when thinking really in-depth about life's big questions, yet making a fool of myself when talking about the 'real world'.

Does this ring a bell with anyone here? Any way to cure my inability to behave less dorkish on a real life scale? :lol:

I read Singer's post as a reassurance that they exist, we all have them, but time and experience related insecurities can't be rushed and should just be accepted as part of life.

But to be honest, the older I get, the more obvious it seems to me that people like to think they know more than they do; and it just seems to me that maturity is an acceptance that we don't. So I think it's quite right to say that most of us live life via guesses and hypotheticals and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm being unfair? D;

How so? I don't mean to be.

 

[Andiferous]

I understand what you're saying, but I think you're being very unfair. Singer's post is a thoughtful response to the insecurities in question.

I read Singer's post as a reassurance that they exist, we all have them, but time and experience related insecurities can't be rushed and should just be accepted as part of life.

But to be honest, the older I get, the more obvious it seems to me that people like to think they know more than they do; and it just seems to me that maturity is an acceptance that we don't. So I think it's quite right to say that most of us live life via guesses and hypotheticals and there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm being unfair? D;

How so? I don't mean to be.

Lol. No, I'm sorry, that wasn't meant for you. You're not unfair in the least.

It was meant for borrofburi. Gosh, now I feel bad.

, and for Singer to simply say "You can't know anything because you've barely personally experienced anything"*** is unfair and inaccurate.