An answer for borrofburi

[VyckRo]

borrofburi

**his entire video on thunderfoot is saying that TF is delusional to question whether or not witches exist. He does this by defining witch *not* as someone who uses rituals to control the supernatural, but as someone who uses rituals to *attempt* to control the supernatural. Which is a red herring anyway: TF is addressing the idea that witchcraft has any effect on reality, to so obviously define words differently so his video becomes unintelligible (and then make a video wondering why, under new definitions, the things thunderfoot says are silly) is intellectual dishonesty.
***he has a great fondness for saying the equivalence of "you said x but if we look at y, x doesn't apply therefore x is always wrong"
****Oh, and I almost forgot: he's one of those who thinks Dawkins really believes life on earth was intelligently designed by aliens. He doesn't, he suggested it as the most likely reality of intelligent design *if* intelligent design had any merit (which it doesn't); i.e. given the hypothetical that ID is true, is it more likely that an omniscient omnipotent benevolent intelligence (super complex thing) did it, or that evolution is still the source of life, and some aliens did it (and since aliens are vastly less complicated and unlikely, occham's razor says aliens). In reality, Dawkins does not think ID is at all true, and does not believe, as some either ignorant or actively dishonest creationists claim, that aliens started life on this earth.

on this video



The atheists ignorance, do not stop to amaze me.
Atheists always want to prove that non-atheist ar wrong.


That is what red herring means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(idiom)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi#Red_herring


First the problem with witches, is only a factor from My video!.
So that is a ~red herring". from you!.
Now T.fool is the one that imposes his vision, about witches, a vision that comes from harry poter ( The only form of culture, which he knows)
Witches have existed and exist, regardless of what atheists believe!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVUonfj-uJk
Witches, shamans, witch-doctors, are part of history, no one denies their existence, with the exception of a few atheists. ( The claim issued by these people is a totally different discussion)
T.Fool's argument is. - the Bible mentions the existence of witches, T. Fool, does not believe in witches therefore the bible is false.

Question for intelligent atheists:
What fallacy is this?

So borrofburi If you imagine witches, as old women riding brooms ... LoL!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft

The picture you have in mind comes from Francisco Goya ( and has nothing in common with reality)
http://www.spaightwoodgalleries.com/Pages/Goya11.html


PS.


I do not use the same fallacy as T.foot, because I give a historical picture of witches.

 

[Nelson]

Way to go VyckRo! Let's hope you miss the point three times in a row to complete the trifecta. As borrofburi has already pointed out NO ONE here is arguing against the existence of people who claim to be witches, shamans, or witch-doctors. The point being made is that these people do not actually posses any supernatural abilities, and thus it makes no sense to put someone to death for practicing witchcraft just as it makes no sense to put someone to death for searching for water with a divining rod.

The bible portrays witchcraft as a legitimate way to access some dark supernatural force, and so it is considered threatening and dangerous. The argument here is simply to point out how ridiculous this is, not to claim that no one believes in such things.

 

[Commander Eagle]

Dear god

The stupid

It burns

 

[borrofburi]

Wow I... I almost feel extra special from this.

NO ONE here is arguing against the existence of people who claim to be witches, shamans, or witch-doctors. The point being made is that these people do not actually posses any supernatural abilities, and thus it makes no sense to put someone to death for practicing witchcraft just as it makes no sense to put someone to death for <silly ineffectual thing here>

This (I edited it slightly, to make the point clearer for believers (hopefully)).

 

[lrkun]

borrofburi

**his entire video on thunderfoot is saying that TF is delusional to question whether or not witches exist. He does this by defining witch *not* as someone who uses rituals to control the supernatural, but as someone who uses rituals to *attempt* to control the supernatural. Which is a red herring anyway: TF is addressing the idea that witchcraft has any effect on reality, to so obviously define words differently so his video becomes unintelligible (and then make a video wondering why, under new definitions, the things thunderfoot says are silly) is intellectual dishonesty.
***he has a great fondness for saying the equivalence of "you said x but if we look at y, x doesn't apply therefore x is always wrong"
****Oh, and I almost forgot: he's one of those who thinks Dawkins really believes life on earth was intelligently designed by aliens. He doesn't, he suggested it as the most likely reality of intelligent design *if* intelligent design had any merit (which it doesn't); i.e. given the hypothetical that ID is true, is it more likely that an omniscient omnipotent benevolent intelligence (super complex thing) did it, or that evolution is still the source of life, and some aliens did it (and since aliens are vastly less complicated and unlikely, occham's razor says aliens). In reality, Dawkins does not think ID is at all true, and does not believe, as some either ignorant or actively dishonest creationists claim, that aliens started life on this earth.

on this video



The atheists ignorance, do not stop to amaze me.
Atheists always want to prove that non-atheist ar wrong.


That is what red herring means:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(idiom)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi#Red_herring


First the problem with witches, is only a factor from My video!.
So that is a ~red herring". from you!.
Now T.fool is the one that imposes his vision, about witches, a vision that comes from harry poter ( The only form of culture, which he knows)
Witches have existed and exist, regardless of what atheists believe!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVUonfj-uJk
Witches, shamans, witch-doctors, are part of history, no one denies their existence, with the exception of a few atheists. ( The claim issued by these people is a totally different discussion)
T.Fool's argument is. - the Bible mentions the existence of witches, T. Fool, does not believe in witches therefore the bible is false.

Question for intelligent atheists:
What fallacy is this?

So borrofburi If you imagine witches, as old women riding brooms ... LoL!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft

The picture you have in mind comes from Francisco Goya ( and has nothing in common with reality)
http://www.spaightwoodgalleries.com/Pages/Goya11.html


PS.


I do not use the same fallacy as T.foot, because I give a historical picture of witches.

You know, instead of concentrating on that which constitutes the mistakes or lack thereof by others. Try to provide a reasonable alternative, so we can actually see some progress.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

You guys should drop the banhammer on this kid for his own sake. He needs to get off the computer and maybe get some professional help.

 

[lrkun]

You guys should drop the banhammer on this kid for his own sake. He needs to get off the computer and maybe get some professional help.

I don't think banning people is a good idea, unless they violate the forum rules. I'm sure that guy thinks he's doing something of value, except I think it's just garbage.

 

[nemesiss]

way to go missing the complete point vyckro.

when you are christian, you must believe in witchcrafts, demons, etc.
but believing in witchcraft, demons, etc. doesn't automatically makes you a christian.

just like an elephant is a mammal, but a mammal isn't automatically an elephant.

as for the whole witchcraft part, inserting your own argument didn't help.
He didn't say he doesn't believe in witchcraft, or you accidently removed it.

as far as i saw the video of thunderf00t in your video, he didn't say harry potter was real.
he used it as a part of a question on how one could destuingish something fictional from reality.

The whole argument at the end was totally out of context totally unrelated to the initial argument.


additionally;

about the bible on Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

laws in the modern world are no longer based on scripture, though some will claim it is.. forgetting about certain parts of the bible or perhaps the skimmed across it.
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

also, if you ask anyone to draw a witch... most will draw a woman with a pointy hat and a broom.
its called a stereotype.

you also do not need a wand or a caldrin or potions or candles for witchcraft.
sometimes just words or a piece of chalk is enough.

 

[Master_Ghost_Knight]

Do you believe in invisible Pink unicorns?
Well I am an invisible Pink Unicorn!
To say that witches are real is the same to say that invisible pink unicorns are real.
If you believe that there are real witches with real magical powers, then you are sick and demented (which by judging your prospects this is by far the most likely alterntive).

The video you present was nothing more than a convoluted pseudo-logic whos main purpouse was to jump on the "leach TF popularity" bandwagoon and jerk of at it.
You have failed to distinguish rectoric and base work from insigthfull inquiry, you failed to distinguish a conditional assesment from a generic statment (complaining that it didn't aplyed to you, bouncing on that as if you where mentaly retarded), instead of actualy adressing anything you just put a machin spouting bible verses in a lazyest fashion You could have think of, then spiraling down into non sequiteur hole (never to return from it ever again) culminating with you babling unrelated information. And you expect anyone to get out of that believing that you are a capable of any rational endeavour what so ever? For real? Were you droped on your head when your mother was giving birth to you?


Since you apear to have more than free time to go arround doing all this nonsense, grab a book on philosophy! Learn some basic logic and how to make an argument instead of bitching about nobody giving you any attention.

 

[JustBusiness17]

I stopped watching when Vyck used a Google search to prove the existence of witches :lol:

At the very start of the his video, Vyck found it amusing that TF spent time on the internet debunking religion... Did the irony somehow go completely over Vyck's head?

 

[DepricatedZero]

I want to reply to this video explaining how you can't prove Hogwarts doesn't exist. . .

 

[Anachronous Rex]

Well... the opening graphic was kinda neat...

but yeah, I was previously unaware google proved the existence of things. You'll have to excuse me now as I have a lot of furries to kill.

 

[Lallapalalable]

I agree with you :!: , but only on one point:
That the popular conception of witches riding brooms has nothing to do with reality.

And they never wore pointy hats!

and

I have a lot of furries to kill

"No! They can be tamed!" to quote Double Wide

 

[Lallapalalable]

I want to reply to this video explaining how you can't prove Hogwarts doesn't exist. . .

especially being a muggle as (I assume) you are.

 

[nasher168]

Witches, shamans, witch-doctors, are part of history, no one denies their existence, with the exception of a few atheists.

:lol: I don't know about your country, Vyck, but anyone over here who suggested witches (of the kind you talk about) really exist would be laughed at and would lose all the respect of their peers. Bear in mind that the UK is still predominantly Christian.

 

[JustBusiness17]

Witches, shamans, witch-doctors, are part of history, no one denies their existence, with the exception of a few atheists.

:lol: I don't know about your country, Vyck, but anyone over here who suggested witches (of the kind you talk about) really exist would be laughed at and would lose all the respect of their peers. Bear in mind that the UK is still predominantly Christian.

Don't worry VyckRo... Allow me:

Proof of witches: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Witches
Proof of shamans: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Shamans
Proof of witch-doctors: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Witch-Doctors

As you can see, pitiful atheists, the google is evidence of all these things!

 

[nemesiss]

:lol: I don't know about your country, Vyck, but anyone over here who suggested witches (of the kind you talk about) really exist would be laughed at and would lose all the respect of their peers. Bear in mind that the UK is still predominantly Christian.

Don't worry VyckRo... Allow me:

Proof of witches: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Witches
Proof of shamans: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Shamans
Proof of witch-doctors: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Witch-Doctors

As you can see, pitiful atheists, the google is evidence of all these things!

let me clarify the argument before its misinterpertated.
The abilities that are entitled to witchcraft have no evidence of working.
just like with those psycho guys James Randi deals with, when it comes to double blinded tests... somehow the magic stops working.
to vyckro i would love have him answer, how he would test if someone is a witch...

i love the way they did tests in the dark ages to test if someone was a witch, including the ending;
- we take a huge bolder and a rope.
- we tie the rope around the boulder and the feet our victi... i mean test-subject.
- we hur.. gently slide our vic.. subject, into the water.
- if our subject doesn't float, our subject isn't a witch (and the person "accidently" drowns to death)
- if our subject does float, we retreive the person from the water and "dry the person" aka we tie them to a pole and set it ablaze.

great test, isn't it?

additionally... aren't we getting off-topic here?

 

[borrofburi]

Witches, shamans, witch-doctors, are part of history, no one denies their existence, with the exception of a few atheists.

:lol: I don't know about your country, Vyck, but anyone over here who suggested witches (of the kind you talk about) really exist would be laughed at and would lose all the respect of their peers. Bear in mind that the UK is still predominantly Christian.

He's using a different definition of "exist". His definition is "people who attempt to supernaturally influence the real world", while our definition is "people who successfully supernaturally influence the real world". There is something to his definition; but it is this difference of definition that he is ultimately attacking when he critiques thunderfoots video; it's either intellectually dishonest, or a terrible miscommunication.

I wasn't initially addressing VyckRo, I was mostly just warning others that his videos weren't worth watching. But here we go:

VyckRo, you are using a different concept of what "witches exist" means than everyone else. So far as I can tell, when you say "witches exist" you mean "there are people who attempt to influence reality with the supernatural, and these people really believe they do"; this is not what the colloquial understanding of "witches exist" means. Rather, colloquially, "witches exist" really means "there are people who can influence reality with supernatural powers", and we deny this. We certainly don't deny that there are people who think they can, and who attempt to; but we deny that they actually have any supernatural influence on reality.

 

[stratos]

I think VyckRo actually makes a fair point, and thunderf00t slipped up in that video, or at least did not explain himself well enough.

Firstly, tf00t states the condition. If you are a christian you have to believe in witches, wizards and demons.

VyckRo, successfully establishes that there are loads of people who believe in witches, wizards and demons. Even showing that indeed there are people out their who would call themselves witches.

The effectiveness of these so called witches is of no consequence, because the initial condition was simply if you believe in them or not. Not if they actually existed or even if magic was real.

 

[JustBusiness17]

I think VyckRo actually makes a fair point, and thunderf00t slipped up in that video, or at least did not explain himself well enough.

Firstly, tf00t states the condition. If you are a christian you have to believe in witches, wizards and demons.

VyckRo, successfully establishes that there are loads of people who believe in witches, wizards and demons. Even showing that indeed there are people out their who would call themselves witches.

The effectiveness of these so called witches is of no consequence, because the initial condition was simply if you believe in them or not. Not if they actually existed or even if magic was real.

As borro said immediately above this comment, it mostly comes down to a difference of intended meaning. I don't doubt that some christians fully believe in our definition of witches (and VyckRo might be one of them) but I would guess that this only constitutes a small fraction of the Christian population. I could be entirely wrong though.

This does bring up an interesting angle on Christianity. If someone could prove that witches exist, it would help support the notion of Christianity (at least circumstantially)...