About to officially anounce my atheism...

[kenandkids]

I don't quite understand the need to 'come out' as an atheist and make a production about personal beliefs, as if to party and have champagne every time we change political affiliations. Not to be snark, but I genuinely can't relate.

The need exists because we are a very marginalised group. States have laws preventing atheists from achieving office, presidents have publicly declared that they aren't even sure we deserve citizenship rights, and there are constant attempts to restrict our freedom of speech. Until more people actively "know" an atheist and recognise us as real people, we will always be considered as "less" than theists. In order to remove the stigma, we must remove the mystery or belief that we are too few to matter. The more of us that are "out," the more youngsters will realise that they are allowed to think rationally and pursue reason over dogma.

 

[Andiferous]

Okay... but I might question if a person's motives if core beliefs are easy traded like shoes and spiritual beliefs formed by peer pressure, atheist books and that 'supportive' community. I feel those kind of things require a person to (not to be cliche) to struggle alone; and some kind of quest for independence. If a person stops believing in god because it's cool and easy, and not because they don't believe in god and can't help it, then they really have been cheated and probably don't completely understand why they did it. This stuff has always been personal to me and I've always been alone in it; I've always been secretive, but you know - I feel I get it now and frankly, don't care about being right or getting public approval. I reinforce my beliefs by arguing myself out of them all the time.

Admit that some of the best atheist traning ground is having a religious background. Then you understand why you reject it. Only you can believe and you may not even get to choose what you believe in, so how are others going to help you? How is it going to help to get together and mock the other people and become exactly that which you are rebelling against? That community of 'indoctrinated' cool people who support each other, convert folks, keep you believing, and make regular sermons to prove to those other guys that only we know the truth?

Sorry, rambly. I don't even like telling people what I believe cuz it's all mine and I won't share it.

Plus, I am convinced that belief is like a heroes journey that you must finish by yourself. They can't even convince you, because not even you have control about what you believe. If you need support to be an atheist, maybe you're just trying to convince yourself? I doubt you really believe if that is so. And I don't want to get in the way of that journey.

 

[televator]

Plus, I am convinced that belief is like a heroes journey that you must finish by yourself. They can't even convince you, because not even you have control about what you believe. If you need support to be an atheist, maybe you're just trying to convince yourself? I doubt you really believe if that is so. And I don't want to get in the way of that journey.

Eh...? I've argued to high hell with other theists.....which is 90% of the people around me. My own best friend converted to Catholicism at the same time I de-converted. I'm not doing this to be cool, nor do I have to prove how "hardcore" my atheist determination is by keeping it all to myself. Sometimes it's just nice to share stories and relate with others. You could carry the burden of you ideological choice all by yourself but you don't have to. But if I were the last atheist on earth, then so be it.

 

[kenandkids]

I feel those kind of things require a person to (not to be cliche) to struggle alone; and some kind of quest for independence.

Admit that some of the best atheist traning ground is having a religious background. Then you understand why you reject it.


If you need support to be an atheist, maybe you're just trying to convince yourself?

I look at it differently. I, and so very many other people, had to undertake the journey alone, without having anyone to discuss anything rationally with. I don't see it as something that NEEDS to be done in seclusion, especially since so much of the reason that many of us become atheist is knowledge. When youngsters especially seek to confront a previously held belief, it is important to have some other person to talk to and bounce ideas off of. If everyone around them disdains knowledge or decries there questioning, the result is too likely to be a mental retreat.

Each time one of us comes out, we become a resource or model for questing, questioning, minds around us. We allow others to understand that it is okay to believe differently or not at all. THEN the personal journey can begin and the person can make decisions, weigh evidence, or conduct further questioning.

 

[Andiferous]

Okay, I do get that. Would it matter if I secretly worshipped Thor?

Sometimes different people are a lot more interesting than multiple yous, too. It's boring to read your own beliefs, constantly and persistantly, for a year. Other people are way so much more interesting.

That said, if people only support you because they're atheists, they must be really lousy friends.

I was the ultimate argumentative annoying person. The religion stuff I saved for people I didn't know. And then one day I realised that there's no bloody way I can change anyone elses' belief is by forcing them to abandon critical thinking and thinking for oneself (which is kind of confusing in making that very point at the same time). And arguing was great, but I was totally doing it for myself. And I think it's fun.

So I argue for me, and it rarely does anyone else any good, but it helps me understand stuff. You don't have to argue ever.

Speaking of irony, I'm not sure there's a thread here without argument. :lol:

 

[televator]

So I argue for me, and it rarely does anyone else any good, but it helps me understand stuff. You don't have to argue ever.

Speaking of irony, I'm not sure there's a thread here without argument. :lol:

You might argue for yourself, but here in the league everybody knows we all argue for the promise of cake.

 

[borrofburi]

Speaking of irony, I'm not sure there's a thread here without argument. :lol:

I think there's one or two, but they usually die quickly.

 

[Andiferous]

Speaking of irony, I'm not sure there's a thread here without argument. :lol:

I think there's one or two, but they usually die quickly.

Are you sure? Which one? :lol:

We argued about Basil. I wonder if we can rise to the challenge of arguing about the colour blue?

We're kinda scary.