“An Earnest Plea for a Better Class of Atheists”

[Raistlin Majere]

http://events.amherst.edu/2009/09/26/1099/

Someone let me know if this link doesn't work.

So yeah, this guy is coming to our campus I guess to make a speech about Atheism and blah blah blah. This is the same guy that wrote Atheist Delusions. So I'm very tempted to go and make a bit of a stir, maybe get a chance to plead my case. I'm curious if anyone has any recommendations for me if I do decide to go. I'm most certainly not going to go unprepared. While I know he's an idiot and has no common sense, reason or logic, I also know he's a well known theologian (I hate that damned word) and a university professor, so he's not the average creotard that lives down the street. Any thoughts, advice, or recommendations?

 

[GoodKat]

Find some points made in any of his work which is inarguably untrue.

 

[ImprobableJoe]

Cut the tires on his car. No, not really. The problem is that anything you do will be twisted into you being "militant" or otherwise less than His Highness.

Frankly, what the world needs is a better class of theist, since they've never had a good justification for their fairy tales.

 

[Raistlin Majere]

I'm reading up now, Kat.

Joe, that's why I'm going to try and present a case calmly, despite the stupidity pounding in my head, but I'm sure I'll be considered militant for making my point... Even though he's there making his point the same way... There will never be a justification for fairy tails, so a better class of theists is asking a lot.

 

[LeMeerkat]

I'm reading up now, Kat.

Joe, that's why I'm going to try and present a case calmly, despite the stupidity pounding in my head, but I'm sure I'll be considered militant for making my point... Even though he's there making his point the same way... There will never be a justification for fairy tails, so a better class of theists is asking a lot.

Do you intend to heckle him or wait until he gives people the opportunity to comment/ask questions?

 

[Raistlin Majere]

During the questions/comments session, assuming there will be one. I wouldn't heckle, even if provoked. It'd take some serious harassment to get me to respond in that sort of way.

 

[the_morbidus]

just scream in the middle on it "it was christian germans that caused the holocaust!!!"

it will start a sweet stir, besides its not like you're saying a lie.

i'm just kidding, it might be to evil, meh......just take a few shots of jack daniels, that should get you pumped for it!!

 

[theatheistguy]

Frankly, what the world needs is a better class of theist, since they've never had a good justification for their fairy tales.

I'd say a better class of human, starting by getting rid of any baseless delusions. In other words, we'd all be unsuperstitious atheists

To the original poster, don't get heated in the debate, remain kewl, kalm and kollected, laugh off any falsity he throws your way, prepare a few retorts and quick witted comments to some of his arguments, and something to slag off religion or specifically the bible, eventually he'll flip and kill a few people, at that point you win ;P

 

[Marcus]

If he's a theologian, you should certainly go along armed with the Courtier's Reply.

 

[Raistlin Majere]

Right, so did a bit of reading out of Atheist Delusions, needless to say, there was a lot of face palming. He basically claims that for the most part (with a few exceptions) atheists are arrogant, foolish and we're only atheists because it's the fashionable thing to do now. Apparently atheism is a fad and we just like criticizing faith. Right. Anyway, when presented with arguments from End of Faith, Breaking the Spell, The God Delusion, etc. he simply creates a strawman and brushes it off as foolish and pathetic. Also, it would seem the idea of a meme is inane and a waste of thought...

So I don't have high hopes for the intellectual quality of this speech. I doubt it'll be anything more than the same old arguments that are easily refuted, only to have those refutations brushed aside nonchalantly by a strawman and the "it's a matter of faith" argument. Well, I guess it won't hurt to try.

 

[nemesiss]

hmm, precise wording is a must, so i would advice to write them down first.i think together as a group we can think of some interesting questions and see how he responds...
i assume this person will be christian and will undoubtly make remarks about morality.

this question can probably be re-worded better, but here goes:

"For a certain group of people, atheist are considered immoral and will say morality comes from the bible. How can people claim the bible as a good moral guideline when it promotes such autrocities such as; murder, rape, slavery, deception, incest, abuse, genocide, adultry.... just to name a few"

 

[the_morbidus]

nemesis makes a good point, also if he says that morals really come from god then you can finish it up by saying:" if common logic is used, if god doesn't exist then will you go into stealing , murdering and raping because of your lack of morals?" of course now he will be between the sword and the wall, he might choose not to answer this one, but if he says yes because he doesn't have god with him then he needs to see a psychiatrist.

but instead of making it into a question perhaps using it as a statement against him would be better because it might humiliate him and show how poor his logic is.

 

[Raistlin Majere]

Ooo, I like where this is going.

Yes, he is a Christian.

The question of the bible as a moral standard is always a great question, nemesiss. It's hard for them to avoid unless they say something about Jesus making it so that those rules no longer apply after his coming. I'm pretty sure this a quote where he says the old laws still stand though.

Morbidus, I'm considering combining yours and nemesiss' ideas into one. Bring up the point about the bible promoting such ideas and forcing him to acknowledge it because of the above mentioned quote. Then I could ask if our morals came from God, then why is the bible "the word of God" full of things that go strongly against our morals. This leaves a few options. Either they do come from god and we've been doing things totally wrong, god's a real asshole and not worthy of our worship, or our morals don't come from god. Did I miss any thing there?

 

[thewhiterabbit]

Hey good on you for attending. It should be a hoot and I wish I could be there - a bit far for me though lol.

Hey just a thing to add to the excellent suggestions regarding the reasoning of morality etc. If he gravitates to 'faith' and believing, ask him how you as a non believer can just 'believe' when it is not in you to do that. How can one decide to 'believe' in god. Really, he's asking you to believe HIM and you just don't, for very good reasons ;-)

Have fun, but be the bigger man about it. Reason and composure always trumps emotional reaction.

Good luck

 

[nemesiss]

thank you all for the praise, though it was nothing.

another interestinng one.

"Christians seem to be able to tell about hell in very, very, VERY graphic details. How come we can't find anyone who can tell me about heaven in equal details?"

not as powerfull but interesting non the less.

 

[Raistlin Majere]

thewhiterabbit - Whenever someone approaches the faith and believing argument I tend to bring up the idea of the undetectable purple elephant sodomizing them with it's trunk as an example of what believing something can be As some might consider this offensive, I'm leaning towards more of an argument concerning the validity of The Flying Spaghetti Monster, or maybe the idea of the man in the insane asylum the BELIEVES there are gnomes in his underpants, yet we dismiss his beliefs very easily.

nemesiss - Good point actually, I never really thought about that, but it is true. Very few people will ever describe heaven in detail at all whatsoever.

 

[nemesiss]

that one i wrote just before going to work, but i was thinking of more questions which might cause an uproar...

this one he will probably have a witty answer for;
"if atheist are indeed without morale, how come that in communities where people tend toward atheism have lower crime rates, compared to more religious communities, which seems to occur all over america"


to this one i could find one easily
Q: "why are there more christians in prison, then atheists?"
A: "because the saw the lord and jesus and sin...bla,bla,bla... and became Christians"


this one is a bit long, but should give interesting results.... (its so long because i wanted to keep it as clear as possible)

"What i hear alot is that christians say that 'Atheists should be more openminded', but during discussions christians seem to have more trouble with openmindedness then atheists, especially where science and religion clash such as evolution, where for some reason christians (more specific creationists) have trouble with the term 'transitional fossil' and from their description they seem to be talking about chimera's. How would you explain this behavior?

 

[the_morbidus]

i forgot to mention that when people tell me that the bible has an answer for everything or for everything you need to know for life i ask them these questions.

-Why did the chicken cross the road?
-What came first, the chicken or the egg?
-What are next friday's lottery numbers?

(fill in with your own questions, the point here is to make it funny, prove how wrong they are and mock them ^^, i'm so evil MWAHAHAHA)


you know what? i tought about heaven once, basically you will be up in the top of the clouds as a soul, i'm very sure you won't have a body to move around, possibly just hover around? well what is scary about heaven is the fact that you will be a soul for eternity, ETERNITY, besides having some sort of conversation material for 2-3 years, you will pass eternity vegetating, i'm sure its pretty much like being in a coma , no PS3, no movies, you don't have a body so you can't play sports or have sex, since you're a soul i'm pretty sure you can't see either for the lack of eyes....o man so it means it will be black all around you, heaven is starting to look like hell now.

 

[borrofburi]

"What i hear alot is that christians say that 'Atheists should be more openminded'

If we're talking about open mindedness, this video is pretty much "the authority" on the subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

 

[Xulld]

I would start from a perspective of neutrality, I would not immediately give away that I am an atheist. I would make clear I have a follow up question first.

"In what way do you find truth in your faith, Is it a feeling, or is there more?" Then once he confirms in a circular fashion as all theologians do that it is indeed a feeling FROM GOD . . . "As an intelligent theologian you must have a good idea of why there are more then 38,000 denominations of Christianity, is it that our feelings about these various concepts of Christianity are really different and thus lead us to different opinions on religious truth, or that god wishes to confuse us?"

Then when he flounders around a bit with that one, I would toss out a quick statement, " so there really is no way of knowing for sure if anything about god via scripture is really true or not!"

This usually burns them up. Especially when you pose it with the inclusive "we", and "us" as if you are a Christian. Perhaps you can even tag team his ass, you have any atheist friends that are going with you? It would be great to get the previous set up on biblical morality out of the way before this one that basically throws theistic knowledge in the subjective trash bin.

Man I wish I lived near you . . .