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Your thoughts on abortion
- Thread starter Nemesiah
- Start date
australopithecus
Active Member
I'm not opposed to it in general, however I'm not a supporter of abortion as contraception
There are valid medical, ethical and social reasons why abortion is necessary in specific circumstances. People conflate pro-choice with pro-abortion, which is false. Pro-choice means exactly that; choice. The choice to keep the child, the choice to put them up for adoption, and the choice to abort, amongst others.
Laurens
Active Member
As australopithecus mentioned, I am opposed to abortion being viewed as an alternative to contraception, because if anything else it costs our health service a lot more time and money than it costs you to buy a condom etc.
Aside from that I have no issue with it. I see no moral reason why a woman should be forced to endure something as life changing as having a child, or simply to go through pregnancy if that is not what she wants. Of course we should look to decreasing the amount of unwanted pregnancies by ensuring that people are educated about safe sex and that contraception is freely available, but I see no good reason to oppose abortion.
Aside from that I have no issue with it. I see no moral reason why a woman should be forced to endure something as life changing as having a child, or simply to go through pregnancy if that is not what she wants. Of course we should look to decreasing the amount of unwanted pregnancies by ensuring that people are educated about safe sex and that contraception is freely available, but I see no good reason to oppose abortion.
I just realized that I did not put what I think about abortion, for the record am an atheist.
I believe a woman should be able to control her own body thus for me abortions are ok, even as contraception (it is a very expensive and invasive form of contraception but it is after all her body).
For me the issue is time, at 1 week you are aborting a few cells, at 12 I believe the nervous system has not started functioning yet so still what you are aborting is nothing more than biomass, however at 6 months or 7 months that is (for me at least) no longer a fetus, it is a small baby (It may no be able to survive on it's own, but I think some thoughts and feelings do cross through its little brain), and while a woman has rights over her own body I believe the creature inside her should have some sort of rights also. At 8 months old, the kid is already shaving, smoking and reading his stock options in there, that is a person; taking the baby out is no longer an abortion, it is called giving birth, congratulations you are now a mommy, hope the fucker moves out before he is 20.
This however is a very fuzzy area since being conected by the umbilical cord, one cound argue that all is still the mother's body and thus it is all her domian.
Obviously I do not claim to have an answer to this, I believe a ton of people (both men and women) should talk it over extensively so that some kind of norm can be implemented. As an atheist obviously I believe that religion should not be part of the discussion but seeing how religion is closely tied to culture and people's personalities I doubt it will be left out.
I believe a woman should be able to control her own body thus for me abortions are ok, even as contraception (it is a very expensive and invasive form of contraception but it is after all her body).
For me the issue is time, at 1 week you are aborting a few cells, at 12 I believe the nervous system has not started functioning yet so still what you are aborting is nothing more than biomass, however at 6 months or 7 months that is (for me at least) no longer a fetus, it is a small baby (It may no be able to survive on it's own, but I think some thoughts and feelings do cross through its little brain), and while a woman has rights over her own body I believe the creature inside her should have some sort of rights also. At 8 months old, the kid is already shaving, smoking and reading his stock options in there, that is a person; taking the baby out is no longer an abortion, it is called giving birth, congratulations you are now a mommy, hope the fucker moves out before he is 20.
This however is a very fuzzy area since being conected by the umbilical cord, one cound argue that all is still the mother's body and thus it is all her domian.
Obviously I do not claim to have an answer to this, I believe a ton of people (both men and women) should talk it over extensively so that some kind of norm can be implemented. As an atheist obviously I believe that religion should not be part of the discussion but seeing how religion is closely tied to culture and people's personalities I doubt it will be left out.
I just wonder - am I included or excluded to share my opinion?Nemesiah said:
[sarcasm]Well - it's rather a mens domain to determine over female bodies - or isn't it?[/sarcasm]
Every woman should be free to decide if to carry out a pregnancy or to terminate it. A setting of a time limit I find reasonable due to health and psychological concerns.
To misuse abortion as contraception would have never come to my mind, if not mentioned here, and is in itself a contradiction. Thus I understand it could be misused as potential option.
Given it would be treated as a 'natural' right, it's the community/society as a whole to welcome and be caring for their offsprings and by that removing a lot of pressing reasons which otherwise lead to unwanted abortions.
I know it's a bit off-topic, but due to the repeated focus on Africa in the last week, I often recalled the unbearable cruel 'tradition' of "Female Genital Mutilation". And because I found this video today in my inbox I'd like to share it right here:
Darwinsgift - FGM, Islam & Secular Support
Master_Ghost_Knight
Active Member
As an atheist, abortions doesn't really have much to do with atheism other than the fact that you are not constrain to do what the church of or choosing dictates about it. I have said this many times and I will say it again, other than not believing in any particular God, atheists in general don't have all that much in common.
I personally will never get an abortion.... but that is because I am a man, and as you know dudes don't get pregnant
.
Ok now seriously.
I'm not against it in principle, but I also share of the opinion that we should frown upon it being used as a contraception, that is totally not ok. Also time limits are important, doing an abortion on the early stages of pregnancy that is fine, but after that its starts to be a grey area (especially when it starts to feel and have some neurological activity, then that is a no no), in those cases abortions should only be permitted on extreme medical necessity.
But if the conditions are right , I'm ok with people having an abortion.
I personally will never get an abortion.... but that is because I am a man, and as you know dudes don't get pregnant
.Ok now seriously.
I'm not against it in principle, but I also share of the opinion that we should frown upon it being used as a contraception, that is totally not ok. Also time limits are important, doing an abortion on the early stages of pregnancy that is fine, but after that its starts to be a grey area (especially when it starts to feel and have some neurological activity, then that is a no no), in those cases abortions should only be permitted on extreme medical necessity.
But if the conditions are right , I'm ok with people having an abortion.
australopithecus
Active Member
You remember when I said people conflate pro-choice with pro-abortion...
[showmore=MetalDevil wrote]
Clinched p :mrgreen: sting to ease skipping!
[/showmore][showmore=Now this makes me wonder if MetalDevil is]MetalDevil said:
- Now this makes me wonder if MetalDevil is ... ?
- - just out to troll the next thread (esp. as he now dropped the other one). 'The obvious bait!'
- - unfortunately far undereducated or incapable of learning
- - a nazi or racist (that would fit with the rejection of equal rights)
- - only 13 years old (or less) (that could fit as for point 1, not being able to know what breeding comprises and the lack of knowing what 'choice' means)
- - what Inferno already suggested
Clinched p :mrgreen: sting to ease skipping!
australopithecus
Active Member
Metalgod said:
Eugenics deals with favouring specific physical and mental characteristics, characteristics that are very difficult to glean in utero. Typically eugenics deals with prohibiting breeding through force, not choice, and post natal infanticide rather than Pre-natal termination.
Simply put: you're talking shit again.
australopithecus
Active Member
In order to produce a set of specific characteristics. So which characteristics are pro-choice advocates trying to achieve, genius?