thenexttodie
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I think this post does well at illustrating the mindset of those who are trapped inside the atheists' box.
Perhaps, Hackenslash, if you could be a bit more concise...or maybe someone else can point out to me an arguement you have made here which I have not addressed already.
And yes Hackenslash, I can think of plenty of other tasks for virgin girls to do other than "fucking".
hackenslash said:thenexttodie said:POINT C
Points A and B are sound. They are based on FACT. No one has even attempted to refute them. So unless some one is able to show an actual error I have made, can you all just agree that I am right and that all of you were wrong, at least as far as points A and B are concerned? Then maybe we could move on, without me having to repeat myself over and over again?
Well then, let's take a lookie, shall we?
POINT A
Judges tells about how the Benjimenites raped women.
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Thank you for playing.
While the latter part of Judges 21 certainly does talk about the Benjimenites [sic] (how did you mangle the spelling so badly? Never come across the name 'Benjamin', as in 'tribe of'? Ed), you failed to note that the verses cited begin from verse 10. The first 3 verses of that deal with the taking of the 400 virgin girls from Jabeshgilead, thus:
Judges 21 said:10 An dey sent l2,ooo kittehs der, an told dem, Go scratch all teh kittehs of Jabeshgilead, an teh girl kittehs and teh baby kittehs too.
11 An do dis too, kill all teh boy kittehs, an teh girl kittehs dat had buttsecks.
12 An dey fownd foar hunnert girl kittehs dat didnt has buttsecks an brawt dem to Shiloh wich is in Kaynin. (Sownds liek Kaynine but der r no dogs der.)
Only someone who knows nothing about the bible would use this to argue that the bible condones rape.
I wouldn't exactly call this condoning rape, but it doesn't appear that anybody in this little drama questions the morality of killing all the men and boys, and any women who weren't virgins, while keeping the virgins for themselves (in fact, the passage talks about young girls, so even hints of paedophilia there, but I won't press that point, because it could well be an issue of translation). Now, I don't know what your thoughts are but, in my book, taking the virgin girls to be wives (as detailed in the preceding passages) with no mention of their consent certainly translates as rape.
The main theme of much of the bible is to show that no matter what God did, no matter what he told people to do, no matter what miracles He did, people almost always rebelled against Him and did evil every time. God did not command this to be done, it was something evil they chose to do on their own.
Total bollocks. A fair bit of the theme of the OT is evil actively commanded by god and Moses*, which bring us nicely to the other alleged point you thought you had:
(Regarding Numbers) The guidelines God gave to the Israelites for the treatment of the women taken from conquered enemies are probably somewhere in Numbers.
Probably? Fucking probably? From somebody who's attempting to set himself up as a fucking authority on what the bible says sufficiently to be able to refute arguments rooted in what it says? Here's a fucking clue for you: It's in that bit of Judges just prior to the bit cited in the post in question, namely Judges 21:1-9.
Judges 21 said:1 Srsly, all teh kittehs swarez in Mispeh, sayin, Benjamin no can marrees r girl kittehs.
2 An teh kittehs went to Ceiling Cat's kitteh condo an staid der and mewd.
3 An sed, Srsly Ceiling Cat, y der be wun tribe of kittehs missin in Isreel?
4 An teh necks day all teh kittehs woak up urly an made a pile of stuff.
5 An teh kittehs uf Isreel sed, Wich kittehs dint come heer wif us to Ceiling Cat's kitteh condo? Cuz all teh kittehs had sed if u no come to Ceiling Cat's kitteh condo dayd kill u an send u to Basement Cat, srsly.
6 An teh kittehs uf Isreel sed, Der is wun tribe uf kittehs dats kicked out uv Isreel.
7 But srsly, how dey gunna have wife kittehs? We sed to Ceiling Cat dat dey no can marrees r girl kittehs.
8 An dey sed, Wich is teh kitteh dats aint heer? But nun of teh kittehs frum Jabeshgilead were der to sez "O hai."
9 Cuz der wurrnt dat many kittehs, and nun uv dem were kittehs frum Jabeshgilead.
The problem was i think that God actually commanded them to kill everyone but the Isrealites kept wanting to take the women with them. God said they could marry these women but could not have sex with them while they were grieving and that basically, if it didn't work out then you had to give the woman a bunch of money and that she could not be your slave.
Several things wrong with this. Firstly, if this is your contention, you haver to support it with the relevant text, as I've done above. And yes, I know I've used the text from the Lolcat bible, but that's frankly the level of argumentation you've engaged in and all the fucking respect this book of bollocks actually deserves. Telling us what you think won't cut it. Secondly, since the original contention also included Moses condoning rape, shall we see what the next citation given in the original argument actually says?
Numbers 31 said:7 They fited at Midian, as Ceiling Cat tol Moses, and pwned al teh d00dz.8 Som of teh pwnd d00dz was Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five laik hed d00dz of Midian. They also pwned Balaam son of Beor with lvl 141 Blade of Savagery.9 Teh Israelites yoinked all teh Midianite women and goatz and stuf.10 Tehy burns all teh towns n stuf wtf.11 Tehy takes all teh booty + teh ppl n goatz,12 Tehy brings all teh booty + teh ppl n goatz 2 Moses and Eleazar teh priest n teh Israelites @ teh camp on teh planes of Moab, by the Jordan cros from Jericho.
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13 Moses, Eleazar teh priest and all the big guys was laik wtf.14 Moses were pissed w/ teh mane d00ds taht camed back frm teh fite.
15 N moses was laik, "has sav teh chiks?"16 "check it, tohse chiks gived teh clap to Ceiling Cat's ppl wtf"17 "K, so kil teh n00b lttl boyz 2 deth, n kil al teh sluts taht has secks w/ d00dz. DO NOT WANT"18 "But teh lttl girlz taht has no secks w d00dz can liv so u can has pedo buttsecks w tehm n stuf cuz Ceiling Cat is pedo." nfw
Oh, and as an aside, how many 'women that had not known man by laying with him' (or, as ceiling cat would have it, 'girl kittehs dat didnt has buttsecks') were there?
35 and 32,000 virgin gurlz
Inferno did not know this and tried to argue that because women and plunder were once mentioned in the same sentence, that that somehow equals rape and sex slavery.
Well, since women were treated as chattel, and since the verses in Judges unequivocally talk about what those 'girl kittehs dat didnt has buttsecks' were actually for, I'd say that the charge is warranted. Not only that, can you think of any task that can be performed only by virgin girls for which these girls might have been kept other than fucking them?
Once again, the atheist knows the holy text of the apologist better than the apologist.
hackenslash said:Would you like a shot at the fucking title?
I think this post does well at illustrating the mindset of those who are trapped inside the atheists' box.
Perhaps, Hackenslash, if you could be a bit more concise...or maybe someone else can point out to me an arguement you have made here which I have not addressed already.
And yes Hackenslash, I can think of plenty of other tasks for virgin girls to do other than "fucking".
